So why the drastic change in beliefs?

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As I was watching the David Nelms video on another thread I began to think about how much he has changed since his HAC days.  I have several friends who graduated from HAC that no longer call themselves "Baptist".

As we grow older it is normal to have some changes in what we believe about many things.  I'm sure we can all look back to our days at HAC and what we believed, only to see that we have now changed in some areas.  This thread is not to discuss those who have made a few minor changes.  This thread is not to discuss those who are backslidden and totally out of church.  This thread is to discuss what causes someone to seemingly be on board with the HAC thought pattern when they graduate, yet they have now gone a totally different route in their beliefs.

Perhaps it is you.  What made you make the drastic change?  Maybe you know another HAC student who has changed.  What caused the change?




 
Being brutal honest here.

I am searching for truth as I have discovered religion and Christianity as I understand and experience it as vacuous as the writer of Ecclesiastes explained life. The more I study the Bible and Christian faith, the more questions get raised in my mind and there seems to be no resolution.

Struggle brings change and hopefully growth in the end.
 
Actually the way I live now is the way I was raised. Except I love going to movies!!! There was a 4 year stretch at HAC, and then 17 years where the husband had his head in the sand, that was legalistic living.
 
I shall offer an opinion, FWIW, for why many (not all) have changed.

HAC taught us pragmatism. We used promotion and Big Days in the bus ministry b/c they worked. We used Sunbeams and Pathfinders and youth activities b/c they worked. We were taught how to make an invitation produce results, IOW, how to make it work. We were taught how to, how to, how to, how to, how to, how to... The reason people came to Pastors' School was to see what FBCH did that worked. The reason people came to HAC was b/c what Bro. Hyles' did worked. The clear proof and evidence shoved before us repeatedly was the size of the crowd. We know how to build a church better than anybody. We know how to train graduates who can build churches better than anybody.

...then, it stopped working, or at least didn't work as well as it used to, and certainly didn't work as well as what Bill Hybels and Rick Warren were peddling. Gradually, what worked in building a church became relevance, CCM, a casual atmosphere, relaxed standards, Saturday night services, multi-site campuses, praise teams, etc. Ergo, the guys whose practical/philosophical base for ministry was the very pragmatism we were soaked in @ HAC simply did what they were taught - they transitioned to what works now.

They didn't do door to door soul winning b/c they believed it was biblical, but b/c it worked. Now it doesn't work so they don't do it. They threw personal standards and doctrinal positions overboard just as soon as they saw they were hindering church growth, and as soon as there was enough internal support and external trendiness in it to give them cover. IOW, they never really believed anything, well, other than pragmatism. They didn't dramatically change belief systems. They simply naturally transitioned b/c of their belief system - pragmatism. 
 
Another opinion...

I see folks who were lock, stock and barrel IFBX'ers and have become evangelical.

The reason is they went from performance based sanctification to Bible based sanctification. Or to phrase it another way, from legalism to liberty.
 
Mathew Ward said:
Another opinion...

I see folks who were lock, stock and barrel IFBX'ers and have become evangelical.

The reason is they went from performance based sanctification to Bible based sanctification. Or to phrase it another way, from legalism to liberty.
Click to expand...

Do we include Mrs. Hyles in this?
 
I live just a few miles from Grace Fellowship and Pastor Nelms is taking a different route than I would but he's reaching people for Christ. My husband went to New Testament in Miami and they stood for 30 minutes singing he didn't like that but the preaching was power packed and 15 people were saved the altar was full. He was also at Grace Baptist in Miami and there were 30 people ..........the pastor said that spanish people were not faithful in church. I'm glad he didn't say it in my face or I would have kicked him a good one....I'm sad to say this pastor probably ran his people off.......
 
I believe that many in the IFB movement confuse Bible Doctrine, Orthodox Christianity and methods and methodology....how the message of Bible based Christianity is propagated.

When I was a boy, men wore suits and ties to baseball games and ladies wore dresses, hats and often gloves. We wore the same clothes to church. My point is that the world around us changes. Period. In my view, many argue over non essentials....and call it Truth. It isn't.

I remember a debate over our church going on the radio in the early 60's....many thought it was worldly and compromising. We also didn't go to movies...too worldly.

Methods are many, Bible principles few.
Methods always change, Bible principles never do.

Some confuse the two, IMHO.
And, I an not a basher of all things IFB!

 
Maybe our beliefs haven't changed. Maybe we realized that ridiculous legalistic "standards" have nothing to do with beliefs.
 
Sherryh said:
I live just a few miles from Grace Fellowship and Pastor Nelms is taking a different route than I would but he's reaching people for Christ. My husband went to New Testament in Miami and they stood for 30 minutes singing he didn't like that but the preaching was power packed and 15 people were saved the altar was full. He was also at Grace Baptist in Miami and there were 30 people ..........the pastor said that spanish people were not faithful in church. I'm glad he didn't say it in my face or I would have kicked him a good one....I'm sad to say this pastor probably ran his people off.......
Click to expand...

I just really appreciate you!  You are gracious and willing not to make it all about your preferences. You have said you preferences on music are conservative but you don't let that get in the way of seeing God work in other ways. Thank you for such a good example!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
I believe that many in the IFB movement confuse Bible Doctrine, Orthodox Christianity and methods and methodology....how the message of Bible based Christianity is propagated.

When I was a boy, men wore suits and ties to baseball games and ladies wore dresses, hats and often gloves. We wore the same clothes to church. My point is that the world around us changes. Period. In my view, many argue over non essentials....and call it Truth. It isn't.

I remember a debate over our church going on the radio in the early 60's....many thought it was worldly and compromising. We also didn't go to movies...too worldly.

Methods are many, Bible principles few.
Methods always change, Bible principles never do.

Some confuse the two, IMHO.
And, I an not a basher of all things IFB!
Click to expand...

Agreed...many make an issue out of the style or the pedigree of the pastor, not the substance.
 
Before I was saved, I used to go to movie houses all the time.
After I was saved, I was warned against movie houses b/c it presented 'the appearance of evil, etc. etc. etc.'
We heard about Hellywood, etc. etc. etc.
That may be so, and much of what comes out of there is fit for hell,
But every time you look in the video section at Wal Mart for videos it could be misconstrued as 'the appearance of evil'.

I still don't go to movie houses, but for other reasons...
When you are in a movie, you can't turn off the music if you don't like it, like you can at home.
When you are in a movie, you can't just turn off the flick if the film becomes immoral or distasteful.
You can walk out, but then you just spent megabucks and wasted an evening.
Even if you think you are watching a movie that is rated just for kids, you might be completely broadsided by what you see as evidenced multiple of times while trying to find good, wholesome entertainment for the children.
So, that's why we don't go to the movies, and that's what we teach our children, our church, and they totally understand and accept it.

 
When we were in the HB schools we were not allowed to wear pants and we didn't.  Now it isn't an everyday thing, but I do wear them.  When I'm out and about in town in my jeans and pants and I see FBC people, I'm very friendly and some choose to ignore me and some talk to me.  I guess that's their choice and so the pant wearing is mine.  Not a big sin.  My hair color is a little wild and I do work in the public in a very professional office.  But if those two things are offensive - oh, well.  I haven't changed any of my Baptist beliefs.  I love my church and the people in it. 
 
Just John said:
Sherryh said:
I live just a few miles from Grace Fellowship and Pastor Nelms is taking a different route than I would but he's reaching people for Christ. My husband went to New Testament in Miami and they stood for 30 minutes singing he didn't like that but the preaching was power packed and 15 people were saved the altar was full. He was also at Grace Baptist in Miami and there were 30 people ..........the pastor said that spanish people were not faithful in church. I'm glad he didn't say it in my face or I would have kicked him a good one....I'm sad to say this pastor probably ran his people off.......
Click to expand...

I just really appreciate you!  You are gracious and willing not to make it all about your preferences. You have said you preferences on music are conservative but you don't let that get in the way of seeing God work in other ways. Thank you for such a good example!
Click to expand...

Sherryh....What JJ said!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Just John said:
Sherryh said:
I live just a few miles from Grace Fellowship and Pastor Nelms is taking a different route than I would but he's reaching people for Christ. My husband went to New Testament in Miami and they stood for 30 minutes singing he didn't like that but the preaching was power packed and 15 people were saved the altar was full. He was also at Grace Baptist in Miami and there were 30 people ..........the pastor said that spanish people were not faithful in church. I'm glad he didn't say it in my face or I would have kicked him a good one....I'm sad to say this pastor probably ran his people off.......
Click to expand...

I just really appreciate you!  You are gracious and willing not to make it all about your preferences. You have said you preferences on music are conservative but you don't let that get in the way of seeing God work in other ways. Thank you for such a good example!
Click to expand...

Sherryh....What JJ said!
Click to expand...

+1
 
16KJV11 said:
Before I was saved, I used to go to movie houses all the time.
After I was saved, I was warned against movie houses b/c it presented 'the appearance of evil, etc. etc. etc.'
We heard about Hellywood, etc. etc. etc.
That may be so, and much of what comes out of there is fit for hell,
But every time you look in the video section at Wal Mart for videos it could be misconstrued as 'the appearance of evil'.

I still don't go to movie houses, but for other reasons...
When you are in a movie, you can't turn off the music if you don't like it, like you can at home.
When you are in a movie, you can't just turn off the flick if the film becomes immoral or distasteful.
You can walk out, but then you just spent megabucks and wasted an evening.
Even if you think you are watching a movie that is rated just for kids, you might be completely broadsided by what you see as evidenced multiple of times while trying to find good, wholesome entertainment for the children.
So, that's why we don't go to the movies, and that's what we teach our children, our church, and they totally understand and accept it.
Click to expand...

I seldom attend movie theaters (by seldom, I mean I went to see the Hobbit in December and it was the first movie I attended in 15 years). I agree with much of what you said here. The biggest problem I have with people who are against going to the movies is the fact that many of them rent the movie when it comes out of theaters. It is just as much an "appearance of evil" to poke around the movie section at Walmart as it is to go see a Disney movie in the theater.

My main reasons for hardly ever attending the movie theater:
(1) Moral - Too much sex, nudity, violence, foul language, and rotten philosophy in today's movies.
(2) Personal - I find that very few movies these days look interesting to me. Character development seems shallow, and plots unrealistic.
(3) Family - I have three kids under six years old. Taking them to a movie would be torture, and we use our babysitters for more important 
                  things.
(4) Financial

That being said, I'm not 100% against theater attendance. Once in a great while, a really good movie may come out that I would like to see on the big screen.
 
My two reasons for not attending movies

1) They have no captions
2) Because the sound seems is never loud enough, thus the #1
 
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