Should a pastor know individual "giving" information?

[RAIDER]

I agree with 16KJV11, and  wouldn't have anybody in a position of leadership that didn't support the church with their substance.

Show me one cent that was collected in a NT church, in the Scriptures, that was for any purpose other than to meet the physical needs of a saint.

So what does "support the church" mean?

A. Give to member's needs.

B. Give to a general fund that may be used at the discretion of someone in leadership.
C. Both
D. Neither
E. Shut up and do what you're told, you disloyal @#$$%&!, the pastor is annointed.

Anishinaabe

How do you think a local church should be supported Biblically?

 

[prophet]

I'm pulling for the Giants... I have the montra... of "anyone but Tom Brady". He's probabily a nice guy. But for some reason....... I just can't seem to like him.  ;D

I asked you first.

Anishinaabe

 

[Still There]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names". 

 

[Mathew Ward]

Notice I did not say that a person had to give a certain amount.
Just giving.
The widow gave, didn't she?
In Mt. 6:21, Jesus lays it out for us with an excellent spiritual principle:
Matthew 6:21 (KJV)
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Personally, I would want leadership in the church whose heart is in it.
Now to be sure, giving money doesn't prove that your heart is in it, but it is certainly ONE of the parameters that I look for for prospective leadership.

You said consistently give...Jesus didn't praise her for her consistent giving...

I understand that, but the principle in Mt. 6 still stands.

So why does the pastor need to know that an individual is consistently giving to the church?

To make a better decision based on the outward?

You see if you were to consider using the widow in a leadership position, her financial record would say she gave 1 time and she gave a penny. At this point (if we are honest) she would no longer be considered for the position.

But if you notice that Jesus did not praise those who gave of their abundance or consistently, but of their necessity. He praised the one whose heart was in it and He gives us that principle.

Instead of looking to a bunch of non Scriptural requirements for leadership how about we look to the Spirit of God, who knows the heart.

We look on the outward...God on the inward.

Matt, I realize that you are burned out on what you feel is IFB focusing on the outward.  I get it.  To go the other direction (it doesn't matter what is on the outside as long as the inside is clean) is just as out of balance.  What is on the inside will show on the outside.

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Which Bible Version you have...
What style of Christian music you listen to...
What style of clothes you wear...
What words you don't use...

Some specific

The length of the man's hair...
Skirts for women and pants for men...
How much to you give to the local church...
How much do you give to missions...
Are you a Soulwinner...
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor...

I could go on but I know you understand.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

 

[bgwilkinson]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names".

Yes, when he did that many people switched to cash or stopped giving.

Offerings started a precipitous drop shortly after that.

 

[16KJV11]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names".

Totally inappropriate.

 

[RAIDER]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Which Bible Version you have...
What style of Christian music you listen to...
What style of clothes you wear...
What words you don't use...

Some specific

The length of the man's hair...
Skirts for women and pants for men...
How much to you give to the local church...
How much do you give to missions...
Are you a Soulwinner...
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor...

I could go on but I know you understand.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

So other than being immoral or breaking the law, it doesn't matter matter what you do as a Christian?  I get what you say about so many insignificant things.  On the other hand there are Biblical principals that should govern the way we look, act, and talk.

Romans 12

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Isn't it amazing that God says, "your bodies" and not "your inner man"?

 

[RAIDER]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names".

I remember hearing a story about J Frank Norris.  I believe he took out an add in the local paper and printed the names of church members who weren't tithing.  Does anyone else remember this story?  Talk about going too far!

 

[16KJV11]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge what kind of clothing I wear?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"  Who are you to judge the length of my hair?
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

 

[RAIDER]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge hair length?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

OUCH!!

 

[sword]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names".

Totally inappropriate.

Is this common?I have never heard of a pastor reviewing what members give, much less acting on it. I know some pastors check for deacon nominations and maybe paid staff but never the membership!

 

[ALAYMAN]

I agree with 16KJV11, and  wouldn't have anybody in a position of leadership that didn't support the church with their substance.

Show me one cent that was collected in a NT church, in the Scriptures, that was for any purpose other than to meet the physical needs of a saint.

So what does "support the church" mean?

A. Give to member's needs.

B. Give to a general fund that may be used at the discretion of someone in leadership.
C. Both
D. Neither
E. Shut up and do what you're told, you disloyal @#$$%&!, the pastor is annointed.

Anishinaabe

I personally prefer "E" (minus the extra "n").

Finances were commanded and authorized for the care of ministers of the gospel, as well as for assistance in the proclamation of the gospel.

 

[16KJV11]

JS was going to start that before his little trip to prison.  He was going to start to go through membership roster and compare a list of who was and was not tithing and was going to start reading off names.  He wanted his money.  He made a comment from the pulpit one service "I know how you are and I will start calling names".

Totally inappropriate.

Is this common?I have never heard of a pastor reviewing what members give, much less acting on it. I know some pastors check for deacon nominations and maybe paid staff but never the membership!

I don't now if it's common or not.
Schaap must have been losing it completely in those last few years.

 

[Mathew Ward]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge hair length?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

OUCH!!

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

 

[RAIDER]

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

Matt, surely you jest about Good News for Modern Man.  Of the attire an associate pastor could chose to wear, why would you chose shorts?  Even if you have no dress standards, would that be considered the outfit of choice for the task?

 

[16KJV11]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge hair length?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

OUCH!!

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

Yes, even non KJVO's recognize Good News for Modern man as completely corrupt.
I don't consider music that you can't understand the words to while they are singing it as Christian, even if the singers say they are saved or not.
If you are on the golf course you can visit in shorts, as long as your cheeks aren't showing.

 

[RAIDER]

Yes, even non KJVO's recognize Good News for Modern man as completely corrupt.
I don't consider music that you can't understand the words to while they are singing it as Christian, even if the singers say they are saved or not.
If you are on the golf course you can visit in shorts, as long as your cheeks aren't showing.

Hey, who are you to judge him for his cheeks showing.  You don't know his heart!

 

[prophet]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge hair length?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

OUCH!!

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

Yes, even non KJVO's recognize Good News for Modern man as completely corrupt.
I don't consider music that you can't understand the words to while they are singing it as Christian, even if the singers say they are saved or not.
If you are on the golf course you can visit in shorts, as long as your cheeks aren't showing.

Personally, I could understand the words of Stryper songs.
Of course, I got my practice trying to decipher Ozzy's gibberish, and Twisted Sister's screaming.

>

Anishinaabe

 

[Mathew Ward]

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

Matt, surely you jest about Good News for Modern Man.  Of the attire an associate pastor could chose to wear, why would you chose shorts?  Even if you have no dress standards, would that be considered the outfit of choice for the task?

If a Christian is reading the Good News for Modern Man can the Spirit of God teach him truth?

You and I both know that the author of Scripture can use whatever version folks use. I use to be KJVO...I am KJP. If a fellow believer reads the NIV, ESV, KJV or Godd News...praise the Lord. I will let God guide the believer. We do believe in believer priests as baptists right?

Is there something Biblically wrong with wearing shorts? If not, then they would be just as acceptable as the shirt, tie and Stacey Adams for the task at hand.

 

[16KJV11]

So if God is on the inside then God will manifest Himself on the outside in our behavior and treatment of others.

Here are some of the outward the IFB considers, I could be off base here...

Some general...

Now, Would you accept me for leadership if:

Which Bible Version you have... "How about Good News for Modern Man?"  Who are you to judge what version I use?
What style of Christian music you listen to...  "Head banging Stryper or Hip Hop"
What style of clothes you wear... "I wear thongs in public" (But my long hair covers my thong) Who are you to judge hair length?
What words you don't use... (Can't think of any illustrations, you got me here."

Some specific

The length of the man's hair... "My hair goes down to my backside and I'm a man"
Skirts for women and pants for men... "I wear a skirt and my wife wears a skirt"
How much to you give to the local church... "I refuse to give a dime"
How much do you give to missions... "I don't ever give a dime to missions, I send it to Robert Tilton."
Are you a Soulwinner... (Since I'm a Calvinist, I never witness to anyone.)
How loyal are you to the church and the pastor... "I constantly oppose the pastor and let everyone know it.)

I could go on but I know you understand.
I could go on and on and on, but you know you have standards too, you just won't admit it.

I made a visit to an older couple this morning (they are in their 70's). I wore shorts, Sperry's and a golf shirt. They were thankful for the hour or so that I spent with them in fellowship. But in many IFB churches that attire would be considered inappropriate. You see the inward was manifested on the outside but not in what I wore but how they were treated. I thank God for the grace He gives and that He has chosen to minister through me. There is nothing good in me, it is only Christ in me that is good.

OUCH!!

It is too bad that the Holy Spirit cannot teach someone truth from the Good News for Modern Man.

What makes music Christian or not Christian? Would seem to me the person playing it.

Stryper and Lecrae are not my genres of music but I don't consider their music unChristian.

Souled Out by Lecrae

Man I consider my life nuthin'
If I could just finish the race
And complete the job the
Lord jesus gave me
I live to tell the world his message
Romans 1:16 "I'm not Ashamed"
I Ain't Ashamed


We Souled Out
Seeking God's face till we fold out
You want it, we got it
We ain't tryin' to hold out
Break me, shake me, mold me
I rather die like Christ than live unholy

But because someone uses the good news for Modern man and listens to Lecrae it seems to me that they be disqualified from holding a position of leadership at your church, is that true?

So can I wear shorts as an associate pastor for your church when making visits?

Yes, even non KJVO's recognize Good News for Modern man as completely corrupt.
I don't consider music that you can't understand the words to while they are singing it as Christian, even if the singers say they are saved or not.
If you are on the golf course you can visit in shorts, as long as your cheeks aren't showing.

Personally, I could understand the words of Stryper songs.
Of course, I got my practice trying to decipher Ozzy's gibberish, and Twisted Sister's screaming.

>

Anishinaabe

Hey, I even figured out what BOC was saying, two feet from the 20 foot tall speakers, in a purple haze.
Couldn't hear for two solid days, blood coming from my ears.