Should a pastor know individual "giving" information?

[RAIDER]

If nothing else, FPM keeps the missions needs current in the lives of the people. Missions becomes an ongoing burden and something in which to participate, rather than a line on the church budget.

Well said!

 

[RAIDER]

Missions becomes an ongoing burden and something in which to participate, rather than a line on the church budget.

If people aren't consistently being reminded that their neighborhoods and workplaces are their mission fields, something is wrong.

I believe he is talking about foreign mission fields.

 

[rsc2a]

Missions becomes an ongoing burden and something in which to participate, rather than a line on the church budget.

If people aren't consistently being reminded that their neighborhoods and workplaces are their mission fields, something is wrong.

I believe he is talking about foreign mission fields.

It's only my personal experience, but I have found that the churches which stress the importance of being missional in your everyday life easily and concretely expand that passion into foreign mission fields as well.

 

[prophet]

I have asked all the churches that have offered to support us, to be willing to take up a collection, when we ask, rather than to send us monthly support.



Anishinaabe

 

[Lone Ranger]

I understand the tithe is intended to support the local church but when discussing a persons tithe scripturally would that not include all giving done through the local church or just the segment designated for support of building and staff.

In that number would you exclude:

1. Faith promise giving
2. Money designated for a specific ministry such as bus or children’s ministry
3. Good & services given to the church
4. Building fund giving
5. Tract fund giving

Just wanted to see what you all thought and why. I have several friends that believe Faith promise, as most churches practice it, is not scriptural.

What say ye?

Unfortunately most pastors only preach one tithing to their congregations. We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament. If pastors preach Old Testament tithing, they usually fail to preach that there were actually three tithes that God required of the children of Israel. Two of those were annual tithes and the third was every three years, so the total would have been about 23% instead of the 10% usually preached today. In my family's personal giving I try to follow those three basic tithes, in principle if not in exact percentages.

#1 - To the Levites and maintenance of the tabernacle/temple. 10% yearly. (Lev 27:30-33)  This I see as the tithe to the local church to maintain the facilities and support the staff. 10%
#2 - For family expenses to travel to Jerusalem for annual feasts. 10% yearly. (Deut 14:22-26) This I see as purchases which contribute to my family's spiritual growth; devotional books, seminars, mission trips, etc. This is where I can also give to missionaries and mission projects outside of the church budget, building personal relationships with individual missionaries and keeping their needs and ministries before my family in a way that the church does not.
#3 - For strangers, orphans, widows, the poor. 10% every three years. (Deut 14:28,29)  This I see as a fund we set aside so that we have, in order to be able to give when we see someone who has a real need. Our church also has a "fellowship fund" offering once a month, where this can be given if it has built up without our knowing of a particular need. The church uses it for those in need.


Note added 3/1: Please refer to Reply #110 for clarification. Thanks to Tom and Prophet for pointing out my misstatement.

 

[Fresh Air]

We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament.

You might want to read it again. 

 

[prophet]

We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament.

You might want to read it again. 

Yes, it is found in the Gospels, and Hebrews.

Now, rightly divide.

Anishinaabe

 

[Bravo]

What is the scriptural basis for FPM? I know it is a way to raise money and it helps with missions but is it a scriptural method and practice? I have heard some state their churches tithed off of the general fund to support missionaries. Would that be more in keeping with scripture?

 

[Lone Ranger]

We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament.

You might want to read it again. 

Yes, it is found in the Gospels, and Hebrews.

Now, rightly divide.

Anishinaabe

Thank you Tom and Prophet for your loving correction . I apologize for the way I incorrectly worded this. Let me try to clarify what I meant.

The word tithe/tithes is found 10 times in the New Testament. What I should have stated, and what the intent of my post was, is that tithing was not taught in the New Testament. Its source is in the Old Testament.

The closest Christ came to teaching tithing was when He told the pharisees that their tithing was not good enough (Mt 23:23; Lk 11:42). It was right for them to tithe, but they were focusing on the minutia, tithing to the penny, and neglecting the heart of God; judgment, love, mercy and faith. The only other occasion when Christ used the word tithes was when the pharisee was proclaiming his own righteousness (Lk 18:12). Christ's response was that the repentant publican was justified, and the pharisee was not.

The word tithe is found 7 times in Heb 7:2-9 in reference to the tithe paid by Abraham to Melchizedec. The point is to teach that tithing preceded the law, making Melchizedec's priesthood superior to the Levitical priesthood. Since Christ's priesthood is after the order of Melchizedec, His is superior as well.

When giving is taught in the New Testament, it is not taught in the context of tithing, rather it is taught in the context of loving. Giving is the outward manifestation of the inward presence of love. Love is that affection of the mind which causes us to give to meet the needs of others, and thus we have 1Jn_3:17.  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Messages on tithing often focus on the letter of the law. As the financial secretary at one of my former churches, I cringed when I recorded tithe checks that were made out to exact pennies. I am not against tithing, but our giving should be based on our love for God and our love for others, not as the pharisees who made sure they tithed on their insignificant mint and anise and cummin.

 

[prophet]

We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament.

You might want to read it again. 

Yes, it is found in the Gospels, and Hebrews.

Now, rightly divide.

Anishinaabe

Thank you Tom and Prophet for your loving correction . I apologize for the way I incorrectly worded this. Let me try to clarify what I meant.

The word tithe/thithes is found 10 times in the New Testament. What I should have stated, and what the intent of my post was, is that tithing was not taught in the New Testament. Its source is in the Old Testament.

The closest Christ came to teaching tithing was when He told the pharisees that their tithing was not good enough (Mt 23:23; Lk 11:42). It was right for them to tithe, but they were focusing on the minutia, tithing to the penny, and neglecting the heart of God; judgment, love, mercy and faith. The only other occasion when Christ used the word tithes was when the pharisee was proclaiming his own righteousness (Lk 18:12). Christ's response was that the repentant publican was justified, and the pharisee was not.

The word tithe is found 7 times in Heb 7:2-9 in reference to the tithe paid by Abraham to Melchizedec. The point is to teach that tithing preceded the law, making Melchizedec's priesthood superior to the Levitical priesthood. Since Christ's priesthood is after the order of Melchizedec, His is superior as well.

When giving is taught in the New Testament, it is not taught in the context of tithing, rather it is taught in the context of loving. Giving is the outward manifestation of the inward presence of love. Love is that affection of the mind which causes us to give to meet the needs of others, and thus we have 1Jn_3:17.  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Messages on tithing often focus on the letter of the law. As the financial secretary at one of my former churches, I cringed when I recorded tithe checks that were made out to exact pennies. I am not against tithing, but our giving should be based on our love for God and our love for others, not as the pharisees who made sure they tithed on their insignificant mint and anise and cummin.

I knew you could do it.

Tithing in the NT, rightly divided.

Amen.

BTW, I was talking to Tom about rightly dividing.

Heb 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are deadtherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Luk 22:20
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.




Anishinaabe

 

[Smellin Coffee]

The closest Christ came to teaching tithing was when He told the pharisees that their tithing was not good enough (Mt 23:23; Lk 11:42). It was right for them to tithe, but they were focusing on the minutia, tithing to the penny, and neglecting the heart of God; judgment, love, mercy and faith. The only other occasion when Christ used the word tithes was when the pharisee was proclaiming his own righteousness (Lk 18:12). Christ's response was that the repentant publican was justified, and the pharisee was not.

<snip>

Messages on tithing often focus on the letter of the law. As the financial secretary at one of my former churches, I cringed when I recorded tithe checks that were made out to exact pennies. I am not against tithing, but our giving should be based on our love for God and our love for others, not as the pharisees who made sure they tithed on their insignificant mint and anise and cummin.

I've no issue with this at all. I would like to expand on something. The Pharisees were focused on giving their temple tithe. Jesus said that their focus should be on the justice of those in need. THAT was the focus of the Torah anyway, even though the presence of God still dwelt in the temple at that time. "Love God and your neighbor" (excuse the quick paraphrase).

 

[bgwilkinson]

We all know that the word tithe is not found in the New Testament, so tithing messages must come from the Old Testament.

You might want to read it again. 

Yes, it is found in the Gospels, and Hebrews.

Now, rightly divide.

Anishinaabe

Thank you Tom and Prophet for your loving correction . I apologize for the way I incorrectly worded this. Let me try to clarify what I meant.

The word tithe/tithes is found 10 times in the New Testament. What I should have stated, and what the intent of my post was, is that tithing was not taught in the New Testament. Its source is in the Old Testament.

The closest Christ came to teaching tithing was when He told the pharisees that their tithing was not good enough (Mt 23:23; Lk 11:42). It was right for them to tithe, but they were focusing on the minutia, tithing to the penny, and neglecting the heart of God; judgment, love, mercy and faith. The only other occasion when Christ used the word tithes was when the pharisee was proclaiming his own righteousness (Lk 18:12). Christ's response was that the repentant publican was justified, and the pharisee was not.

The word tithe is found 7 times in Heb 7:2-9 in reference to the tithe paid by Abraham to Melchizedec. The point is to teach that tithing preceded the law, making Melchizedec's priesthood superior to the Levitical priesthood. Since Christ's priesthood is after the order of Melchizedec, His is superior as well.

When giving is taught in the New Testament, it is not taught in the context of tithing, rather it is taught in the context of loving. Giving is the outward manifestation of the inward presence of love. Love is that affection of the mind which causes us to give to meet the needs of others, and thus we have 1Jn_3:17.  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Messages on tithing often focus on the letter of the law. As the financial secretary at one of my former churches, I cringed when I recorded tithe checks that were made out to exact pennies. I am not against tithing, but our giving should be based on our love for God and our love for others, not as the pharisees who made sure they tithed on their insignificant mint and anise and cummin.

Short and to the point.

Nicely done.

About sums it up.