Restoration

[Bruh]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there. 

 

[16KJV11]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Bruh]

IMO, I'm sure it would not be wise for him to serve in any ministry with kids, teen girls or adult women.  Something like, jail ministry or maybe even a nursing home.

Agreed.  I also think there would need to be a "proving" time where he would just be a pew filling church member.  How long that would be, I don't know.

I just hope he doesn't come walking into my church.  LOL!!!

Some Sunday you will walk into your class and they will say, "We want to introduce your new teacher." 

Well, I do teach Sunday School from time to time as well as fill the pulpit.  But if my pastor knew I was on here, I think all of the would cease.  So, don't tell anyone I'm on here.

Your secret is safe with we Hackers!!

For a price!

Just let me know how much, I have a lot of money. 

 

[RAIDER]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

Absolutely agree.

I would also think the family would want to be out of there.  It would be a lot easier to get help and move on with your life.

 

[Bruh]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

Absolutely agree.

I would also think the family would want to be out of there.  It would be a lot easier to get help and move on with your life.

Yes, I agree. 

 

[qwerty]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

Absolutely agree.

I would also think the family would want to be out of there.  It would be a lot easier to get help and move on with your life.

Yes. 

Although a victim, a lot came out about her, so it would be a challenge for recovery with that stuff floating around; not just the victimization of an abusive and predatory pastor, but the other junk that comes to light in situations like this.

Staying there would have been the wrong decision, especially as Bravo said earlier, there are some folks that were trying early on to control the damage and ended up shooting their own credibility.

 

[RAIDER]

Yes. 

Although a victim, a lot came out about her, so it would be a challenge for recovery with that stuff floating around; not just the victimization of an abusive and predatory pastor, but the other junk that comes to light in situations like this.

And, like it or not, the "other junk" must also be considered.

 

[16KJV11]

IMO, I'm sure it would not be wise for him to serve in any ministry with kids, teen girls or adult women.  Something like, jail ministry or maybe even a nursing home.

Agreed.  I also think there would need to be a "proving" time where he would just be a pew filling church member.  How long that would be, I don't know.

I just hope he doesn't come walking into my church.  LOL!!!

Some Sunday you will walk into your class and they will say, "We want to introduce your new teacher." 

Well, I do teach Sunday School from time to time as well as fill the pulpit.  But if my pastor knew I was on here, I think all of the would cease.  So, don't tell anyone I'm on here.

Your secret is safe with we Hackers!!

For a price!

Just let me know how much, I have a lot of money.

Sorry, Monopoly money doesn't count, but I think Raider would take it as a bet on next week's Bears game.

 

[RAIDER]

am i reading too much into it?..... i don;t know any more details than you do.....but i;m not turning a blind eye to what i do know either..... and i;m not pretending i didn;t read what people who were close to the situation said about it a few months ago.... they said schaap supporters within the church created a very hostile environment for the girl and her family..... you can say they left for their own peace of mind... or you can say they felt run out of town by the hostility.... but it;s all the same thing...... either  way they felt compelled to leave.... and because of people who were supporting this person you call a "christian who is in deep sin".......meanwhile you conveniently ignored posters who know schaap better than you do and say they do not believe he is even saved....... and you ignored the evidence they gave as well........ i also noticed you completely skipped over the second post i made where i apologized for what what i said in the one you quoted....... why did you do that?......

you and your friends can call me hot headed and uneducated all you want..... but the fact is i do know what it;s like to be a victim of sexual abuse.......i also know what it;s like to sit on a witness stand and have the same things said of me that were said about schaaps vicitms by schaap supporters....... but i am wondering if you know that fundamentalists are currently seen by many people.... especially victims of sexual abuse... as those who would rather do all they can to support and restore predatory preachers and other perpetrators while throwing their victims away........  the classic shoot the wounded and move on scenario...... what;s sad and ironic about that is fundamentalists always claim they are helping the wounded by trying to restore those predatory preachers........  but those predators are not the wounded...... their victims are........ and none of you seem capable of seeing that.......just like you are not capable of seeing how damaging and hurtful your posts are to the victims and their families when you go on worrying about the welfare of a sexual predator with no mention of his victim... (other than to say a lot came out about her after the trial... and imply it was all negative)..

share all the snide comments with your cronies here that you want..... but i am a lot more educated about things like this than you think i am.......  and i think your education is yet to come...... you reap what you sow.... or did you forget that?.........  ask jack schaap about it....he obviously forgot about it too.... but i;m sure he is fully aware of it now

Aleshanee, I do not know your past.  I am sorry that you went through the situation that you described above.  It had to be a horrible time in your life. 

You say you are not turning a blind eye to what you "know" about the Schaap situation.  You are basing what you "know" on the negative posting of some on the FFF.  Others have said that this family was not "run out of town" but rather received legal counsel and left the area.  I am not at FBCH.  I don't "know" what happened with this family.  I read the same things you do on the FFF.  I don't believe every negative thing that I read.

One poster said that he doesn't think Schaap is saved.  You automatically believe this poster and assume that he is "close" to Schaap.  I do not know if Schaap is saved or not. 

You accuse me of calling you hot headed and uneducated.  I did not do that.  You finish your post by telling me that my education is yet to come and I will reap what I sow.  What in the world did I say that would cause you to say something like that?  I have not defended Schaap.  I was standing up against his preaching and teaching long before this happened.  Justice has been served in his case.  I have not downplayed what has happened to the victum.  I have not turned a blind eye. 

This thread was started to discuss the restoration of a Christian who sins.  It wasn't started to defend Schaap and it has not done so.  If you wish to start a thread to discuss helping a victum overcome a terrible situation, please start that thread.

Evidently I have said something to offend you.  I did not mean to do so. 

 

[RAIDER]

Aleshanee, I do not know your past.  I am sorry that you went through the situation that you described above.  It had to be a horrible time in your life. 

You say you are not turning a blind eye to what you "know" about the Schaap situation.  You are basing what you "know" on the negative posting of some on the FFF.  Others have said that this family was not "run out of town" but rather received legal counsel and left the area.  I am not at FBCH.  I don't "know" what happened with this family.  I read the same things you do on the FFF.  I don't believe every negative thing that I read.

One poster said that he doesn't think Schaap is saved.  You automatically believe this poster and assume that he is "close" to Schaap.  I do not know if Schaap is saved or not. 

You accuse me of calling you hot headed and uneducated.  I did not do that.  You finish your post by telling me that my education is yet to come and I will reap what I sow.  What in the world did I say that would cause you to say something like that?  I have not defended Schaap.  I was standing up against his preaching and teaching long before this happened.  Justice has been served in his case.  I have not downplayed what has happened to the victum.  I have not turned a blind eye. 

This thread was started to discuss the restoration of a Christian who sins.  It wasn't started to defend Schaap and it has not done so.  If you wish to start a thread to discuss helping a victum overcome a terrible situation, please start that thread.

Evidently I have said something to offend you.  I did not mean to do so.

you are right.... you did not call me hot headed ludicrous or uneducated....  one of your friends.. who i also consider a friend... made that comment to you about me in a karma remark....... it wouldn;t have bothered me coming from some of the others here.......but it really hurt coming from him.......i;m sorry i accused you of saying things you didn;t say....... and i;m sorry for being probably a little too passionate on subjects like this.... but there are very good reasons why i am......

another poster here mentioned other "junk" coming out about the girl in this case and you agreed with him that other "junk" needed to be considered..... i;m sure neither of you meant any harm to the victim you are talking about..... but i don;t know if either of you realize how damaging those kinds of comments are to a victim of sexual abuse who is trying to put her own life back together..... especially when she is 18 years old and was highly influenced by this perpetrator in his mid 50s for the majority of her 18 years....... there are inherent dangers for a girl like that you may not be aware of...  ....

to put it another way.... schaap will have a much easier time dealing with life in prison for the next 12 years than she will dealing with what has happened in her life....... i was 9 years old when i sat on a witness stand and heard defenders of my abusers bring out "junk" about me...... far fewer people believed it about me then, than believe it now about this girl.... and i had a very loving and supportive adopted family to help me get recover and heal.... yet 4 years later when i was 13 a single careless comment from a junior high special speaker sent me home in tears where i took a razor and opened both my forearms from wrist to elbow.... ....

i don;t know what kind of help or support this girl has.... none of us do..... but i do know a little bit about what goes on inside someone who has been through what she has......  and i know how the words of others can hurt even if they weren;t intended to...... none of us should want to do her further harm... even by accident.... ..  maybe i should have simply said just that.... and no more... in the first place... and left it there.........  i;m sorry i didn;t........

Truce

 

[qwerty]

Yes. 

Although a victim, a lot came out about her, so it would be a challenge for recovery with that stuff floating around; not just the victimization of an abusive and predatory pastor, but the other junk that comes to light in situations like this.

And, like it or not, the "other junk" must also be considered.

Yes, but in this instance both sides would use it to their advantage. Schaap's supporters will say, "See, I told you she was a...." while the other side will say, "How dare you further victimize this poor innocent angel...."  it is a lose-lose situation.

Luckily, most of us have the advantage of looking at it from outside the entanglements of both parties.

 

[qwerty]

Yes. 

Although a victim, a lot came out about her, so it would be a challenge for recovery with that stuff floating around; not just the victimization of an abusive and predatory pastor, but the other junk that comes to light in situations like this.

And, like it or not, the "other junk" must also be considered.

Yes, but in this instance both sides would use it to their advantage. Schaap's supporters will say, "See, I told you she was a...." while the other side will say, "How dare you further victimize this poor innocent angel...."  it is a lose-lose situation.

Luckily, most of us have the advantage of looking at it from outside the entanglements of both parties.

so why is her "junk" being continually brought up?.......and why do you have to bring it up again?......... can you not see the difference between a 17 year old girl who was taught to worship the man-o-god... and a mid 50s married pastor who had complete and manipulative control over her?...... does it not bother you in the least that comments like the one you made and quoted can do serious damage to a girl in her situation?...........or is it just that an apology and truce between 2 warring parties is not good enough for you?..... you feel you have to stir it all up one more time?.....

Because I don't care...

I am not going to get so involved with a situation that does not involve me that I start making false accusations and assumptions about people, twice in this thread alone.

I don't have a side in this matter, I am interested in facts.... I have discussed facts without getting emotional and all bent out of shape about it...which is you usual MO. 

 

[qwerty]

Because I don't care...

.............

and that pretty much sums you up doesn;t it?......... you don;t care...... quite a statement coming from a professed christian....  .but you are wrong about one thing.... you do make assumptions..... false assumptions .....and really big ones too......  just because you are jaded beyond repair and lack even the basic emotions that would cause you to have normal christian compassion ... that doesn;t mean the rest of the world feels the same... or that your psychological condition is in any way normal and fit to be used as a standard to judge or compare others......  .... so go ahead and chalk it up as three times in one thread because i think you are a pretty sad example of both a man and christian........ but you probably knew that already didn;t you?..... it's not like you haven;t been trying to convince me of it all this time......

Name calling....the next step in the aleshanee temper-tantrum.....

Think posting a picture of some sort of a baby crying comes next....or is it the "if it was someone in your family....."

Again, I don't care....

 

[Bravo]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

That's just it, it didn't come from the "people". Poor girl was a victim of "out of sight out of mind,... Hopefully". She and her family may have been a rallying point for some change if they stayed.

 

[qwerty]

It would be difficult to attend a church that you are civilly suing.  They left on their own, probably the best move they made the past few years.

I agree...and I would bet dollars to donuts that their legal counsel gave them the advice to leave.

I think if everyone was honest, we all know that the upper echelon at fbch did not want them there.

That's just it, it didn't come from the "people". Poor girl was a victim of "out of sight out of mind,... Hopefully". She and her family may have been a rallying point for some change if they stayed.

Correct, but would be so difficult to see those folks sitting on the platform in positions of authority that tried to keep it under wraps from the start. 

 

[GuyfawkesV49]

If you want to know how FBC staff treated the victim's family, read page 14-15 of the sentencig memorandum..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage

 

[qwerty]

If you want to know how FBC staff treated the victim's family, read page 14-15 of the sentencig memorandum..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage

That section referenced in the memorandum is a letter from the father and how he has perceived they were treated. It is sad that was how it was perceived, bet they were never "banned" from FBCH.  In addition, their extended family sill is conducting business with the church.....so there's that.  Again, them moving on from FBCH was probably the best thing that they could do for their daughter and for them as a whole.  Hopefully they have found a church where legalism is not the soup du jour and restoration and healing does not have to start behind the closed door of the pastor's study.

Edit: I wanted to make known that my post above was not meant to be condescending or disrespectful to those that are attending FBCH. I know things are improving there, and respect those who have stayed or returned since Bro. Wilkerson has taken over the helm. I can see a lot of benefit to move a family's membership despite what changes had occurred. There would be memories associated with too many locations that it would most likely hinder healing as will as rules and standards that are in place "to protect" that evidently failed.

 

[RAIDER]

If you want to know how FBC staff treated the victim's family, read page 14-15 of the sentencig memorandum..

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage

That section referenced in the memorandum is a letter from the father and how he has perceived they were treated. It is sad that was how it was perceived, bet they were never "banned" from FBCH.  In addition, their extended family sill is conducting business with the church.....so there's that.  Again, them moving on from FBCH was probably the best thing that they could do for their daughter and for them as a whole.  Hopefully they have found a church where legalism is not the soup du jour and restoration and healing does not have to start behind the closed door of the pastor's study.

Good post

 

[GuyfawkesV49]

Do you believe that Eddie Lapina told the victim's father and mother it is "best we do not go back to the Church for our safety" on page 15? Or is that just their perception of what Eddie said? Why would their safety be in doubt if they stayed? I thought church was supposed to be a bastion of safety for the wounded christian. Except when you become a liability I suppose.

This is interesting if you can believe the judge..
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-20/news/chi-schaap-church-teen-sex-20130320_1_jack-schaap-pastor-sexual-relationship

Lozano noted that in the aftermath of the scandal, the girl was expelled from Hammond Baptist High School and the family from the church.

 

[qwerty]

Do you believe that Eddie Lapina told the victim's father and mother it is "best we do not go back to the Church for our safety" on page 15? Or is that just their perception of what Eddie said? Why would their safety be in doubt if they stayed? I thought church was supposed to be a bastion of safety for the wounded christian. Except when you become a liability I suppose.

This is interesting if you can believe the judge..
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-20/news/chi-schaap-church-teen-sex-20130320_1_jack-schaap-pastor-sexual-relationship

Lozano noted that in the aftermath of the scandal, the girl was expelled from Hammond Baptist High School and the family from the church.

You can ask any student at HB that was there, she was expelled before she started meeting with Schaap.  She was expelled from the school for another incident;  As a result of that expulsion, an HB administrator sent Schaap an email detailing what was going on and depression of the expelled student as a result of the incident and felt that she should receive some counseling for the depression.  This was the beginning of Schaap's involvement.  It may make a good story line in the paper, but the timeline is wrong. 

As far as Lapina.....I guess it depends on what parent you want to believe. The parent on page 14 who said that "Our entire family has been banned from FBC" or the parent on page 15 who said that Eddie advised them "that it was best we did not not go back to church for our safety".  I do not understand why the parents were even allowing Eddie to communicate with them after he lied to members on Sunday after the photos were discovered.  Kind of wish he would have popped Eddie in the nose a few times.