LM, PKs, and martyr mentalities....

[patriotic]

A pastor can spend time with his family IN the ministry. 

My dad did.  Seven kids.  All still in church faithfully (all but one IFB and some would call IFBx), two became pastors, another an assistant pastor's wife, another a church secretary and substitute CS teacher, two are church pianists, two are deacons, a bus captain, a bus worker, etc. 

We loved working within the ministry with my dad and mom and not a one of us resent it, and, in the churches where my father served, he also had to work another job.  He often worked 60+ hours a week, plus pastored the church.  He'd doze at times during a game of Racko or Sorry. 

We could.  There were church members who said and did some awful things, deacons who threatened my mom, and an usher/deacon who literally took his tithe envelope back out of the offering plate after he had placed it in.  That's just a few things. 

I can remember wearing the same skirt to church week after week, wearing a different blouse every other week.  It was not embarrassing to me.  I was glad to have two outfits.  When I went to college, I went with 2 pair of shoes - one pair for classes and one pair for church, which I quickly switched around - and four class outfits and 3 "Sunday outfits".  I felt blessed beyond measure. 

Sometimes, it the choice one makes in how they are going to view it when they look back from their adulthood.  Why be upset because there were things you didn't think were fair?  Even the most "mistreated" among PKs are blessed far beyond what we deserve, so go forward, and don't blame the past.  God is just waaaaaaaaaay too good to us all for self-pity, regardless of the reasons. 

 

[Frag]

A pastor can spend time with his family IN the ministry. 

My dad did.  Seven kids.  All still in church faithfully (all but one IFB and some would call IFBx), two became pastors, another an assistant pastor's wife, another a church secretary and substitute CS teacher, two are church pianists, two are deacons, a bus captain, a bus worker, etc. 

We loved working within the ministry with my dad and mom and not a one of us resent it, and, in the churches where my father served, he also had to work another job.  He often worked 60+ hours a week, plus pastored the church.  He'd doze at times during a game of Racko or Sorry. 

We could.  There were church members who said and did some awful things, deacons who threatened my mom, and an usher/deacon who literally took his tithe envelope back out of the offering plate after he had placed it in.  That's just a few things. 

I can remember wearing the same skirt to church week after week, wearing a different blouse every other week.  It was not embarrassing to me.  I was glad to have two outfits.  When I went to college, I went with 2 pair of shoes - one pair for classes and one pair for church, which I quickly switched around - and four class outfits and 3 "Sunday outfits".  I felt blessed beyond measure. 

Sometimes, it the choice one makes in how they are going to view it when they look back from their adulthood.  Why be upset because there were things you didn't think were fair?  Even the most "mistreated" among PKs are blessed far beyond what we deserve, so go forward, and don't blame the past.  God is just waaaaaaaaaay too good to us all for self-pity, regardless of the reasons.

Bravo!

Exactly.  You chose to respond properly and scripturally.  Just like some PKs CHOOSE to respond with a martyr's mentality. 

No one has a perfect upbringing.  EVERYONE chooses how they respond to their own IMPERFECT upbringing. 

This victim mentality has run amuck, and, personally, I have little patience with it. 

 

[Frag]

Okay, boys and girls.  Go back and actually READ my OP, and stop misquoting it or claiming I said things I did not.

Your exaggerations undermine your credibility and your false claims about what I have or have not said undermines your integrity. 

 

[kaba]

Very Nice Patriotic! Thank you for that testimony. your parents did a great job.

 

[Sherryh]

Patriotic, Well done my faithful servant.........give your parents a big hug and kiss!! Thank you for sharing!!

 

[BALAAM]

Okay, boys and girls.  Go back and actually READ my OP, and stop misquoting it or claiming I said things I did not.

Your exaggerations undermine your credibility and your false claims about what I have or have not said undermines your integrity.

Okay, I'll now have to take back what I said in my previous post. You have not disappointed me yet. I knew the 'real' Frag would eventually shine through.

 

[Frag]

Okay, boys and girls.  Go back and actually READ my OP, and stop misquoting it or claiming I said things I did not.

Your exaggerations undermine your credibility and your false claims about what I have or have not said undermines your integrity.

Okay, I'll now have to take back what I said in my previous post. You have not disappointed me yet. I knew the 'real' Frag would eventually shine through.

I was nice for awhile.....

 

[subllibrm]

I was nice for awhile.....

All good things must come to an end? 

 

[lnf]

I am a PK (preacher's kid). 

I have raised 3 PKs. 

For a time in my teen years, I succumbed to a martyr's mentality.  You know....poor me, my dad's a pastor, he is so busy, not fair, he loves the church more than me, poor me, our plans sometimes get interrupted because of a church emergency, not fair, poor me...........etc. 

Then I grew up.  I grew both spiritually and mentally. 

Guess what.  The first and great commandment is not for us to love our children.  Let that sink in.  The man who loves God supremely and puts His will and His plan first before EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY is, by doing so, putting his family first. 

Too many PKs and PWs want their pastor dad/husband to make them an idol.  They secretly resent the Lord's supreme position in the heart of their dad/husband.  One of two things will eventually happen to a person who starts down this road.

1.  They will grow in their bitterness and spend their life in the "poor me" state of mind.
2.  They will grow UP and thank God that they are blessed to have a dad who is called of God to be a pastor.  They will begin seeing it as privilege.  They will follow his example to put God before EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY (yep, imagine that -- God gets to be first!  What a concept...)

I do not know the truth about LM's upbringing, but Cindy's biography of her father sure paints the EXACT OPPOSITE picture.  So as a PK, I have to ask -- is there 2 different JHes , or two different heart reactions in two different kids?

My dad no doubt helped me overcome:

1.  He was the same person at home he was at church -- no hypocrisy. 
2.  He took time for us.
3.  Although there were times when the ministry took him from us, for the most part, he strove to include us in the ministry.  By doing so, the ministry created a bond to us instead of a wedge between us.
4.  My mother supported my father fully in his commitment to serve the Lord.  She did not grumble about being in the ministry.  She reminded us often how blessed we were to have a father who served the Lord.  Behind most bitter PKs is a more bitter PW! 
5.  His love for God was supreme!  This did not make him less of a husband/father, it made him a BETTER husband/father!

You're right...this thread went down a rabbit trail from your original post.  Let me state, I thank you, as a PK, for not resenting those times when my family either needed or simply appreciated that our Pastor was there for us in times of trouble.  No, I do not know you or your dad...but I get what you are saying...

...My Pastor was there to pray with me before I went into surgery.  It was early in the morning.  I neither asked nor expected him to come, but it meant the world to me when he did.

...My Pastor was there the night my husband was taken by ambulance to the hospital for seizures caused by terminal cancer.

...My Pastor was there the night my husband died, staying late into the night, until my husband's body was removed from our home.

...My Pastor was there the day I took my son to the police station to be arrested for stealing from a convenience store.

...My Pastor was there the day we interviewed with a home for troubled youth to see if they could help my son.

...My Pastor was there the day my son plead guilty for the crime he committed. 

...My Pastor was there the night my son "graduated" from his program, starting the chain of events which led to him receiving a sentence of "go forth and sin no more" from the court.

Yes, my Pastor was there.  It's true that my particular Pastor did not have children living at home when he was there for me...but plenty of Pastors did...and took time away from their families to be there for needy people like me....

and I thank you, on behalf of all of us, for your sacrifice. 

 

[BALAAM]

'For the christian, all things are sacred, even helping around the house.'  Alex Early

I was brought up in ifb churches to believe that we did not esteem any one day holier than another. For a christian every day was a holy day. There was no sacred ground; it was all sacred ground. There was no burning bush; every bush was burning with purpose. "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might." I always believed that was true and still do.

I did forget it for awhile though when I went to hac and got caught up in this idea that the only holy and sacred things in this world was some type of  ministry and getting your paycheck from some type of full-time ministry. Nothing wrong with any of these things but to create a lower class of people because they work secular jobs became the norm: At least in my thinking and I'm sure in a lot of other people's also.

Every summer at fbch in every service they would always ask, "Do we have any men of God here visiting with us today?" Meaning that if you aren't in a full time ministry you were automatically dismissed from the man of God rolls. I was alway tempted to stand up and introduce myself and say, "Yes. I am a full-time christian worker!"

Many of the "full-time" workers also had to work second jobs to make ends meet and were often harangued from the pulpit because there were college students who spent more time in their respective ministries than the full-time workers did. One of the long time fbch employees told me the following about that: He said that if Ray Young has a stroke and can no longer walk or continue in his duties they would have a dozen young men who would push him around in a wheelchair to teach classes. He said if the same happens to me, I am done! I will be replaced quicker than the Bears can lose to the Packers! (He didn't really say that but I thought it was a nice touch)

 

[Frag]

'For the christian, all things are sacred, even helping around the house.'  Alex Early

I was brought up in ifb churches to believe that we did not esteem any one day holier than another. For a christian every day was a holy day. There was no sacred ground; it was all sacred ground. There was no burning bush; every bush was burning with purpose. "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might." I always believed that was true and still do.

I did forget it for awhile though when I went to hac and got caught up in this idea that the only holy and sacred things in this world was some type of  ministry and getting your paycheck from some type of full-time ministry. Nothing wrong with any of these things but to create a lower class of people because they work secular jobs became the norm: At least in my thinking and I'm sure in a lot of other people's also.

Every summer at fbch in every service they would always ask, "Do we have any men of God here visiting with us today?" Meaning that if you aren't in a full time ministry you were automatically dismissed from the man of God rolls. I was alway tempted to stand up and introduce myself and say, "Yes. I am a full-time christian worker!"

Many of the "full-time" workers also had to work second jobs to make ends meet and were often harangued from the pulpit because there were college students who spent more time in their respective ministries than the full-time workers did. One of the long time fbch employees told me the following about that: He said that if Ray Young has a stroke and can no longer walk or continue in his duties they would have a dozen young men who would push him around in a wheelchair to teach classes. He said if the same happens to me, I am done! I will be replaced quicker than the Bears can lose to the Packers! (He didn't really say that but I thought it was a nice touch)

Agree!  (well, except for the Bear's comment  )

Not being called into "full-time service" hardly makes you a second class Christian. 

Also, if you are going to hire someone "full-time" then PAY THEM a respectable, living wage.  Sad how we have starved assistant pastors and Christian school teachers, then wonder why the young people of the church balk at surrendering to serve full time.  If you cannot afford to pay someone, don't hire till you can. 

I would like to serve full time and not take a pay check at all.  That is why I keep playing the lottery!!!    (anyone got 6 numbers for me) 

 

[rsc2a]

You Are My Pastor

 

[Biker]

Balance is achieved when you recognize that your entire life's priority system is not defined by just ONE verse in the Bible.

Balance is considering ALL that God has commanded, and scheduling your life to include time to obey ALL He has commanded

Balance does not hide behind obeying God in one area of your life, then using it as an excuse for disobedience in every other area of your life.

I'm assuming "balance" isn't scriptural since no scripture is offered. ANd I've requested it.  I will refrain from comment here

Being a good pastor does not give you an excuse for being a poor husband.

Agreed to the best I can. It's pretty ambiguous. Defining a poor husband or a good one, well no one is good and we may not in our secular minds, define them similarly.

Example: Staying home with your wife on her Birthday vs visiting a sick person you visited just the day before. I may make my wife wait, you may not. But lots of factors go into those decisions. All we can do is strive to obey scripture. Otherwise we are basically, unsaved.

NEITHER DOES being a good husband give you an excuse for being a poor pastor, church member, neighbor, brother, son, father, witness, friend, employee, or child of God.

Scripture? Example-  lets say  my friend was dying while my wife as also dying, being there for her over him doesn't make me a poor friend. We have 24 hrs in a day, we can't do everything which is why we look to scripture.

There are Biblical responsibilities for each of these areas, not just the one.

Agreed. But some are much more than "responsibilities" Some are instituted at Creation of just how we live, some are commands, some are not salvation issues, some are, many are a mindset. Some must be adhered to over others. Some do not apply to us, some do. Without scripture...

Balance is achieved by learning to be GOOD in every area, instead of GREAT in one at the expense of the others.

Again, no one is good. Or great for that matter.. nor is my goal, "balance" . At least until it is defined scripturally

God comes first!  Our love for Him is to be supreme above every other love in our life.

When scripture is the basis, then he's came first.
Beings we are human, it will never be that way completely but we are commanded to have the mindset. It's a mindset we live, overall.

This does not diminish the other loves of our life, it empowers and enhances those loves.

I think I agree. Your comment about paying Pastors/Elders is excellent. Minimal should equate to average salary for the area. Husbands can be paid but otherwise generally, the biblical examples is they have a trade/skill already.So they are partially paid a wage instead of a full donation.
Tentmaking (Priscilla/Acquillas/ paul etc.) for example. Single men are pretty easy to support of course, just one of them.
1Timothy states that ALL men are responsible for supporting their families. If the wife earns $ more perfectly ok.It's really about effort/mindset of trying to hold your own. If anyone is needy, including Pastors, we are to support them.

I'd need to do more preaching to be eligible to get paid. Paul says those who proclaim the gospel can get paid but then he sort of discourages it.

All our Pastors trade off preaching so really none of us would be paid much anyhow. I do some banking, occasional kid parties, cleaning up after potluck, essentially playing around is the majority of my efforts.. Not preaching. And the occasional sick visit, once in a blue moon death, and occasional counseling but that's usually new converts (or unbelievers referred to us) who are disturbed by actions done in the body of the old man. Mandy is alongside me in most of my  ministries.

I've been to three churches in my life, didn't stay long..until attending this one. If they don't utilize expository preaching, I won't sit thru babble.


Again, if you'd back up your objections ...to a Husbands calling NOT being his wife... with scripture, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Biker]

I did forget it for awhile though when I went to hac and got caught up in this idea that the only holy and sacred things in this world was some type of  ministry and getting your paycheck from some type of full-time ministry. Nothing wrong with any of these things but to create a lower class of people because they work secular jobs became the norm: At least in my thinking and I'm sure in a lot of other people's also.

We have the opposite problem in our area, or it felt that way in the three churches I attended for a short time. An undercurrent, never heard it verbalized. Maybe it was my imagination

 

[Biker]

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [a]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

"while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribsand then closed up with flesh. 22  Lord God made a woman from the rib" -Genesis-
bone of my bones
    and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’

Titus 1:5-9:
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you — if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.  For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.  He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord.” [1 Corinthians 7:32-35]

Do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 1 Cor 6

7showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.


"When she saw that the tree was good for food, and a delight to the eyes, and to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit, and gave it to her husband"  Gen.1  I bet we all wished Adam had made Eve his calling. Instead he failed her, God, and all of mankind


If you don't make your wife your calling, someone else will 

"