LM, PKs, and martyr mentalities....

[Frag]

I am a PK (preacher's kid). 

I have raised 3 PKs. 

For a time in my teen years, I succumbed to a martyr's mentality.  You know....poor me, my dad's a pastor, he is so busy, not fair, he loves the church more than me, poor me, our plans sometimes get interrupted because of a church emergency, not fair, poor me...........etc. 

Then I grew up.  I grew both spiritually and mentally. 

Guess what.  The first and great commandment is not for us to love our children.  Let that sink in.  The man who loves God supremely and puts His will and His plan first before EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY is, by doing so, putting his family first. 

Too many PKs and PWs want their pastor dad/husband to make them an idol.  They secretly resent the Lord's supreme position in the heart of their dad/husband.  One of two things will eventually happen to a person who starts down this road.

1.  They will grow in their bitterness and spend their life in the "poor me" state of mind.
2.  They will grow UP and thank God that they are blessed to have a dad who is called of God to be a pastor.  They will begin seeing it as privilege.  They will follow his example to put God before EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY (yep, imagine that -- God gets to be first!  What a concept...)

I do not know the truth about LM's upbringing, but Cindy's biography of her father sure paints the EXACT OPPOSITE picture.  So as a PK, I have to ask -- is there 2 different JHes , or two different heart reactions in two different kids?

My dad no doubt helped me overcome:

1.  He was the same person at home he was at church -- no hypocrisy. 
2.  He took time for us.
3.  Although there were times when the ministry took him from us, for the most part, he strove to include us in the ministry.  By doing so, the ministry created a bond to us instead of a wedge between us.
4.  My mother supported my father fully in his commitment to serve the Lord.  She did not grumble about being in the ministry.  She reminded us often how blessed we were to have a father who served the Lord.  Behind most bitter PKs is a more bitter PW! 
5.  His love for God was supreme!  This did not make him less of a husband/father, it made him a BETTER husband/father!

 

[Reformed Guy]

Loving God supremely is not the duty of Preachers only, but of every man- married, unmarried, childless, father of many, chimney sweep, pastor, car salesman, business executive, garbage collector, unemployed.

Also, that Greatest Commandment includes the duty to love one's neighbor as oneself.  Seeing that one's children who, next to the wife, are the man's nearest neighbors-- one's especially dependent upon his provision and affection, to violate his trust in that area is to supremely break the first commandment.

Just some additional thoughts.

Some worthy points made in above post-- just needed some balance.

 

[Frag]

Loving God supremely is not the duty of Preachers only, but of every man- married, unmarried, childless, father of many, chimney sweep, pastor, car salesman, business executive, garbage collector, unemployed.

Also, that Greatest Commandment includes the duty to love one's neighbor as oneself.  Seeing that one's children who, next to the wife, are the man's nearest neighbors-- one's especially dependent upon his provision and affection, to violate his trust in that area is to supremely break the first commandment.

Just some additional thoughts.

Some worthy points made in above post-- just needed some balance.

I agree, except for one point.  The Greatest Commandment does not include loving "one's neighbor as oneself".  The SECOND Greatest commandment includes that.  The FIRST greatest commandment is for God and God alone. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Frag]I agree, except for one point.  The Greatest Commandment does not include loving "one's neighbor as oneself".  The SECOND Greatest commandment includes that.  The FIRST greatest commandment is for God and God alone. [/quote]

These two statements are interdependent. One cannot love God if one hates their neighbor, and one cannot love their neighbor without loving God (even if one is unaware that they, in fact, do love God...albeit imperfectly).

And, regarding the first post, the church is not God. The problem often isn't that the pastor elevates God too much. It's that the pastor elevates the church too much, often at the expense of his family. If you suck at pastoring your own family, perhaps you should focus your attention there before you attempt to pastor a wider audience.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Loving God supremely is not the duty of Preachers only, but of every man- married, unmarried, childless, father of many, chimney sweep, pastor, car salesman, business executive, garbage collector, unemployed.

Also, that Greatest Commandment includes the duty to love one's neighbor as oneself.  Seeing that one's children who, next to the wife, are the man's nearest neighbors-- one's especially dependent upon his provision and affection, to violate his trust in that area is to supremely break the first commandment.

Just some additional thoughts.

Some worthy points made in above post-- just needed some balance.

I agree, except for one point.  The Greatest Commandment does not include loving "one's neighbor as oneself".  The SECOND Greatest commandment includes that.  The FIRST greatest commandment is for God and God alone.

If you love God first, you will be a good father and husband, you cannot neglect your family, I think Paul wrote something about that.

 

[Mathew Ward]

I have watched and experienced many pastors putting their job before their family.  I don't know of anyone who is advocating not having God first in your life, but that there needs to be a balance between one's job for God and one's family.  I think one's relationship with God comes first and this should be first in all the areas of our life.  After this relationship many pastors then put the work of God next (some even put it first) before their family and I believe that is wrong and makes a pastor out of balance.

 

[Frag]

[quote author=Frag]I agree, except for one point.  The Greatest Commandment does not include loving "one's neighbor as oneself".  The SECOND Greatest commandment includes that.  The FIRST greatest commandment is for God and God alone.

These two statements are interdependent. One cannot love God if one hates their neighbor, and one cannot love their neighbor without loving God (even if one is unaware that they, in fact, do love God...albeit imperfectly).

And, regarding the first post, the church is not God. The problem often isn't that the pastor elevates God too much. It's that the pastor elevates the church too much, often at the expense of his family. If you suck at pastoring your own family, perhaps you should focus your attention there before you attempt to pastor a wider audience.
[/quote]

They may be interdependent, but they are also RANKED.  Loving God is FIRST, loving our neighbor is SECOND.  So the SECOND is not possible before the FIRST.  And the FIRST will lead to the SECOND.  Again, they are connected but not equal.



 

 

[T-Bone]

I want to speak to the elephant in the room...no one here knows what goes on in the preacher's home, in over 30 years of ministry I have met man after man who is nothing like what he pretends to be before the church in his own home.  I might also add that I believe the "pastor's" primary field of ministry is his home and when that is right the other areas will be better served.  That is why Paul said that "he must lead his own household well". Finally, though we might separate the love of God and the love of others, both Jesus and John do not...Jesus said "the second is like the first" when it came to the command to love.  John said, "if you say you love God and hate your brother, you are a liar".  Interesting subject thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Frag]

If you love God first, you will be a good father and husband, you cannot neglect your family, I think Paul wrote something about that.

I agree.  But there are times when God's work and your family come into conflict.  In the reality of the ministry, there are sometimes hard choices. 

For instance, last Sunday was Easter.  I preached a salvation message.  After the service, I went home to enjoy an Easter dinner with my wife, children, inlaws and grandchildren.  I hoped to have the afternoon with them.  Just after the meal, I received a call from a man who had brought his son and daughter-in-law to our service.  His daughter-in-law came home, then broke down during their meal, under conviction of sin.  He did not know how to deal with her.  I told my family what was going on, said goodbyes and got in the car.  The young lady was sweetly saved, but by the time I arrived home the family had dispersed. 

Thank God for a sweet ministry wife who GETS IT!  Thank God for kids who are not bitter, but understand that the salvation of one soul is more important than an extra hour with dad.  Thank God my kids and grandkids came up to me that night, not angry at me, but wanting to know if the young lady had gotten saved.  Thank God for my oldest granddaughter who said, "Papa, when you left, I prayed that you would get to lead her to Christ."  I get to do what I do because I do not have a family who reacts carnally and selfishly towards my service to my God. 

I feel sorry for pastors who spend their lives arguing with a selfish wife and spoiled children who have no eternal perspective.

 

[Frag]

I want to speak to the elephant in the room...no one here knows what goes on in the preacher's home, in over 30 years of ministry I have met man after man who is nothing like what he pretends to be before the church in his own home.  I might also add that I believe the "pastor's" primary field of ministry is his home and when that is right the other areas will be better served.  That is why Paul said that "he must lead his own household well". Finally, though we might separate the love of God and the love of others, both Jesus and John do not...Jesus said "the second is like the first" when it came to the command to love.  John said, "if you say you love God and hate your brother, you are a liar".  Interesting subject thanks for bringing it up.

Good points.  I see kids grow up to serve the Lord coming from two different kinds of homes -- the home of authentic Christians or the homes of lost people.  Yep.  NEVER seen a kid grow up to serve the Lord who came out of the home of a two-faced hypocrite.  This would be true of laypeople as well as pastors. 

Thanks for the quotes of Christ and John.  I would agree, the two are inseparable. 

 

[T-Bone]

I want to speak to the elephant in the room...no one here knows what goes on in the preacher's home, in over 30 years of ministry I have met man after man who is nothing like what he pretends to be before the church in his own home.  I might also add that I believe the "pastor's" primary field of ministry is his home and when that is right the other areas will be better served.  That is why Paul said that "he must lead his own household well". Finally, though we might separate the love of God and the love of others, both Jesus and John do not...Jesus said "the second is like the first" when it came to the command to love.  John said, "if you say you love God and hate your brother, you are a liar".  Interesting subject thanks for bringing it up.

Good points.  I see kids grow up to serve the Lord coming from two different kinds of homes -- the home of authentic Christians or the homes of lost people.  Yep.  NEVER seen a kid grow up to serve the Lord who came out of the home of a two-faced hypocrite.  This would be true of laypeople as well as pastors. 

Hard to make statements about what others have experienced...I don't know Hyles or his daughter, Linda.  And the reality is like so many cases neither do those who think they do.  Only those who lived in the home know the truth..just like in your home and in my home.

 

[rsc2a]

If you love God first, you will be a good father and husband, you cannot neglect your family, I think Paul wrote something about that.

I agree.  But there are times when God's work and your family come into conflict.  In the reality of the ministry, there are sometimes hard choices. 

For instance, last Sunday was Easter.  I preached a salvation message.  After the service, I went home to enjoy an Easter dinner with my wife, children, inlaws and grandchildren.  I hoped to have the afternoon with them.  Just after the meal, I received a call from a man who had brought his son and daughter-in-law to our service.  His daughter-in-law came home, then broke down during their meal, under conviction of sin.  He did not know how to deal with her.  I told my family what was going on, said goodbyes and got in the car.  The young lady was sweetly saved, but by the time I arrived home the family had dispersed. 

Thank God for a sweet ministry wife who GETS IT!  Thank God for kids who are not bitter, but understand that the salvation of one soul is more important than an extra hour with dad.  Thank God my kids and grandkids came up to me that night, not angry at me, but wanting to know if the young lady had gotten saved.  Thank God for my oldest granddaughter who said, "Papa, when you left, I prayed that you would get to lead her to Christ."  I get to do what I do because I do not have a family who reacts carnally and selfishly towards my service to my God. 

I feel sorry for pastors who spend their lives arguing with a selfish wife and spoiled children who have no eternal perspective.

Then there are several pastors I know who realize they aren't the Messiah. They also understand the idea of Sabbath. For them, since Sunday is a work day, they have another day selected. For example, one pastor...his Sabbath is Friday evening till Saturday evening (which gives him time to study a bit before Sunday). On Friday evening, his cell phone goes off and he doesn't answer his home phone. That time is for him and his family. If someone has a need, there are plenty of other people in the church that individual can call. After all, he's not the Messiah, and even Jesus took some time off every once and a while.

But I guess people who feel like that are reacting "carnally and selfishly towards [his] service to [his] God."

 

[Frag]

Then there are several pastors I know who realize they aren't the Messiah. They also understand the idea of Sabbath. For them, since Sunday is a work day, they have another day selected. For example, one pastor...his Sabbath is Friday evening till Saturday evening (which gives him time to study a bit before Sunday). On Friday evening, his cell phone goes off and he doesn't answer his home phone. That time is for him and his family. If someone has a need, there are plenty of other people in the church that individual can call. After all, he's not the Messiah, and even Jesus took some time off every once and a while.

But I guess people who feel like that are reacting "carnally and selfishly towards [his] service to [his] God."

Not a matter of being the Messiah.  It is a matter of being a pastor.  I agree that there is times to "shut-off" things, but there must be someone else who is assigned to meet a need if you cannot. 

Help me to know which "someone else" I should have called and have him leave HIS Easter dinner to deal with this lost lady?  Sorry, as cut and dried as you try to make it, as a pastor, you are on call.  Having "pastor friends" is great, but hardly gives you a window into the day to day realities of the ministry.  But, knowing you, I am sure this will not stop you from posting your "expert" opinion about something you have never lived. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Frag]Not a matter of being the Messiah.  It is a matter of being a pastor.[/quote]

Yet even the Messiah Himself took time off. Strange how many pastors suffer from a Messiah complex when even the Messiah Himself didn't.

[quote author=Frag]I agree that there is times to "shut-off" things, but there must be someone else who is assigned to meet a need if you cannot. [/quote]

Yes, I believe I explained this.

[quote author=Frag]Help me to know which "someone else" I should have called and have him leave HIS Easter dinner to deal with this lost lady?[/quote]

Sunday evening would be a pretty lousy day for a pastor to choose to Sabbath...

[quote author=Frag]Sorry, as cut and dried as you try to make it, as a pastor, you are on call.[/quote]

And God commands you to take a break once and a while for your own good. The man was not made for the Sabbath and all that...

[quote author=Frag]Having "pastor friends" is great, but hardly gives you a window into the day to day realities of the ministry.  But, knowing you, I am sure this will not stop you from posting your "expert" opinion about something you have never lived. [/quote]

I am posting the expert opinion of pastors who actually live this, pastors who lead churches many, many times larger than yours in many cases. Yet, even with all those people under their care, they realize the need of rest.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Sorry, I don't speak fundie.  You defined PK, and I'm guessing PW = Pastor's Wife.

LM == ??? 

Land Mine? 
Loose Molar?
Lethargic Mutt?
Liquid Metal?
Lonely Monarch?
Lady Madonna?

Am I warm?

 

[Frag]

Sorry, I don't speak fundie.  You defined PK, and I'm guessing PW = Pastor's Wife.

LM == ??? 

Land Mine? 
Loose Molar?
Lethargic Mutt?
Liquid Metal?
Lonely Monarch?
Lady Madonna?

Am I warm?

Too funny. 

Sorry.  In reference to the Linda Murphy thread.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Could this possibly speak if the advantage of having an elder run church, that is able to be more flexible and spread out the responsibilities?

 

[rsc2a]

Could this possibly speak if the advantage of having an elder run church, that is able to be more flexible and spread out the responsibilities?

*nods*

Among many, many other reasons.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Could this possibly speak if the advantage of having an elder run church, that is able to be more flexible and spread out the responsibilities?

Having a plurality of elders to lead the church is quite beneficial.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

My wife is a PK and in the early years of our marriage struggled with some of the very issues mentioned in the OP. Her Dad was one who always put the church first, in his words. My experience and training was just the opposite. One of the qualifications of a Pastor is that he has his house in order...so it should be a priority in his life. Frankly, a man can't neglect his family and put God first...I think a man honors God by ministering to his family.

Many men have neglected their families while serving on a plurality of elders church staff. If they have the wrong philosophy of ministry that just means a plurality of elders would neglect their families. It isn't he number of elders but a balanced, Biblical philosophy of ministry that will make the difference.