Let's Return to the Old Paths

[bgwilkinson]

Who brought KJV Onlyism to the IFB's? Was it Peter Ruckman or David Otis Fuller?

My parents met while in school at W B Riley's Northwestern College, Minneapolis, MN in the 30s. Riley was one of the movers and shakers behind Fundamentalism in America. They used to distribute "The Fundamentals" in their church planting ministry. The first English Bible I had was an ASV 1901, I used a NASB NT until the NASB 1971 was published.

At FBCH Ruckman and the KJVO claims were condemned by Bro. Hyles until the late 80s well after John Rice died.
KJVO was generally considered as a form of nutery. Bro. Hyles used the Douay Rheims in soul winning with Catholics.

 

[Vince Massi]

Who brought KJV Onlyism to the IFB's? Was it Peter Ruckman or David Otis Fuller?

IFB's have been since the New Testament so I assume it is Peter or Paul!  (kidding but you get my drift)

Balaam, no joke. A Ruckmanite student at HAC was getting creamed in a debate, and he got so upset that he shouted that the KJV "was good enough for the Apostle Paul, and it's good enough for me!"

 

[Walt]

Waot a minute!

David cloud, who holds to the 1950's doctrine of Peter Ruckman, wants to return to the old paths?

How can you say that? !?!  He has repudiated Ruckman on his website.

Could you post a link to that, please?

https://www.wayoflife.org/database/ruckman.html

 

[bgwilkinson]

Waot a minute!

David cloud, who holds to the 1950's doctrine of Peter Ruckman, wants to return to the old paths?

How can you say that? !?!  He has repudiated Ruckman on his website.

Could you post a link to that, please?

https://www.wayoflife.org/database/ruckman.html

That seems difinitively unsupportive of Ruckman.

 

[sword]

Though many IFB pastors may share the same view as Peter Ruckman, on the King James Bible, most differ with him on many of his other views and would never associate with or call themselves followers of Ruckman. The KJVO or KJV preferred position and the defense of the Received Text predates Ruckman by 150 years or more.
Ruckman may have been the loudest and most consistent defense of the KJVO position, but he was clearly not the first nor does he own it.

In truth I may share one or two views with Martin Luther King, but that in no way makes me one of his followers or a promoter of the current civil right movement.

 

[cpizzle]

Who brought KJV Onlyism to the IFB's? Was it Peter Ruckman or David Otis Fuller?

According to Bill Grady, Jack Paterson got it started at HAC with a book by Ruckman.  This influenced Dr. Hyles.  Dr. Hyles' then became the standard bearer and it then spread throughout the IFB world.

BTW:  I use and promote to my church the KJB because I trust it.  I don't trust the new versions (though many of them may be very good translations) because I have never proven them.  I know there are more poor translations the good translations, but I am fine with what I already use.  I don't condemn all new translations as the "Devil's work," but I do see his hand in the corruption of God's word.  I am KJO, but no where near the extreme of Ruckman or many of my HAC teachers and counterparts, including Dr. Hyles.

 

[WESLEY]

Who brought KJV Onlyism to the IFB's? Was it Peter Ruckman or David Otis Fuller?

My parents met while in school at W B Riley's Northwestern College, Minneapolis, MN in the 30s. Riley was one of the movers and shakers behind Fundamentalism in America. They used to distribute "The Fundamentals" in their church planting ministry. The first English Bible I had was an ASV 1901, I used a NASB NT until the NASB 1971 was published.

At FBCH Ruckman and the KJVO claims were condemned by Bro. Hyles until the late 80s well after John Rice died.
KJVO was generally considered as a form of nutery. Bro. Hyles used the Douay Rheims in soul winning with Catholics.

@BG -  you say a lot that is factually inaccurate... http://www.dbts.edu/journals/1999/Combs.pdf  (look @ footnote 11 -  this was preached in 1984, not the late 80's...)

 

[bgwilkinson]

Who brought KJV Onlyism to the IFB's? Was it Peter Ruckman or David Otis Fuller?

My parents met while in school at W B Riley's Northwestern College, Minneapolis, MN in the 30s. Riley was one of the movers and shakers behind Fundamentalism in America. They used to distribute "The Fundamentals" in their church planting ministry. The first English Bible I had was an ASV 1901, I used a NASB NT until the NASB 1971 was published.

At FBCH Ruckman and the KJVO claims were condemned by Bro. Hyles until the late 80s well after John Rice died.
KJVO was generally considered as a form of nutery. Bro. Hyles used the Douay Rheims in soul winning with Catholics.

@BG -  you say a lot that is factually inaccurate... http://www.dbts.edu/journals/1999/Combs.pdf  (look @ footnote 11 -  this was preached in 1984, not the late 80's...)

I'd call that nit picking. I'm only off by a couple of years. Early 80s before 85 and late 80s after 85. 84 is well after John Rice died in 80.

As I mentioned before I was still using my NASB 71 in the 80s and carrying it to church and recording Bro. Hyles sermon outlines in it.

How good are you at remembering things that happened over 30 years ago and exactly when they happened?

The sermon represents the day the worm turned with Bro. Hyles. It was in 85 that he came up with his 10 commandments of receiving accusations.

Things had started to heat up and he was fighting back as best he could.

I hope you enjoyed Combs article with which I agree. Thanks for posting it. Bill does a great job of unscrambling the dodgy KJVO claims made by some.

 

[Vince Massi]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.

Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

 

[Twisted]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.

Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

Wow, you are such a liar.

You make stuff up and accuse the brethren.  What does the scripture say about accusers of the brethren?

You have to be mentally disturbed.

 

[Vince Massi]

Twisted, are you saying that Peter Ruckman DID invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people?

 

[sword]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.

Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

Not sure who came first, Dean-Burgon (1813-1888),  Benjamin F Dearmore (1897 - 1969), Edward F. Hills (1912?1981), Benjamin G. Wilkinson (1872?1968), Jasper James Ray(1894?1985) or Peter Ruckman (1921 - 2016)

http://www.dbts.edu/2012/03/14/dean-burgon-father-of-the-kjv-only-movement/
GOD-WROTE-ONLY-ONE-BIBLE by Jasper Ray (1955)
https://www.amazon.com/GOD-WROTE-ONLY-ONE-BIBLE/dp/B000J563VQ

 

[Twisted]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.

Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

Not sure who came first, Dean-Burgon (1813-1888),  Benjamin F Dearmore (1897 - 1969), Edward F. Hills (1912?1981), Benjamin G. Wilkinson (1872?1968), Jasper James Ray(1894?1985) or Peter Ruckman (1921 - 2016)

http://www.dbts.edu/2012/03/14/dean-burgon-father-of-the-kjv-only-movement/
GOD-WROTE-ONLY-ONE-BIBLE by Jasper Ray (1955)
https://www.amazon.com/GOD-WROTE-ONLY-ONE-BIBLE/dp/B000J563VQ

Your post reminds me of the video i just watched where an armed merchant ship blew holes in the Somalian boats and pirates.

Well done.

 

[Walt]

Though many IFB pastors may share the same view as Peter Ruckman, on the King James Bible, most differ with him on many of his other views and would never associate with or call themselves followers of Ruckman. The KJVO or KJV preferred position and the defense of the Received Text predates Ruckman by 150 years or more.
Ruckman may have been the loudest and most consistent defense of the KJVO position, but he was clearly not the first nor does he own it.

In truth I may share one or two views with Martin Luther King, but that in no way makes me one of his followers or a promoter of the current civil right movement.

Ruckman is not merely a supporter of the KJV; he called it advanced revelation and that God re-gave the Scriptures in 1611 to correct errors that had crept into the Received Text.  That goes way beyond the standard KJV position.

 

[Walt]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.

Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

I would change this to state that everyone who claims that the KJV is "inspired" caught it from Ruckman; many people long before Ruckman were defending the KJV, but it is, I believe, Ruckman who started calling it "inspired".

 

[sword]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.
Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

I would change this to state that everyone who claims that the KJV is "inspired" caught it from Ruckman; many people long before Ruckman were defending the KJV, but it is, I believe, Ruckman who started calling it "inspired".

I believe Peter Ruckman, on many occasions, gave Jasper James Ray and his 1955 book "God wrote only one Bible" credit for his views on verbal, word-for-word inspiration of the KJV Bible.  Not sure Ruckman got his obscure theory on "Advanced Revelation" from anyone. Ray references "many books" that are out of print regarding the long held view of "Verbal Inspiration of the bible".

Quote from introduction in "God Wrote Only One Bible", John Jasper Ray, 1955
In the past, many books were available, which gave detailed information regarding the "fouI play" connected with the translation of Bible versions. Most of these are now out of print; therefore, this book is written to meet the need of this present spiritual emergency, when the God-given Bible doctrine of verbal
word-for-word inspiration of the Holy Scriptures is being ridiculed and even denied.

See chapter 1-7 of Ray's book.
http://www.asureguidetoheaven.org/onebible.pdf

 

[Walt]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.
Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

I would change this to state that everyone who claims that the KJV is "inspired" caught it from Ruckman; many people long before Ruckman were defending the KJV, but it is, I believe, Ruckman who started calling it "inspired".

I believe Peter Ruckman, on many occasions, gave Jasper James Ray and his 1955 book "God wrote only one Bible" credit for his views on verbal, word-for-word inspiration of the KJV Bible.  Not sure Ruckman got his obscure theory on "Advanced Revelation" from anyone. Ray references "many books" that are out of print regarding the long held view of "Verbal Inspiration of the bible".

Quote from introduction in "God Wrote Only One Bible", John Jasper Ray, 1955
In the past, many books were available, which gave detailed information regarding the "fouI play" connected with the translation of Bible versions. Most of these are now out of print; therefore, this book is written to meet the need of this present spiritual emergency, when the God-given Bible doctrine of verbal
word-for-word inspiration of the Holy Scriptures is being ridiculed and even denied.

See chapter 1-7 of Ray's book.
http://www.asureguidetoheaven.org/onebible.pdf

It's been a long-standing belief among Christians that the Bible is word-for-word inspired, but that was not applied to any translation until Ruckman applied it to the KJV.  I grew up with lots of teaching that the "Bible" was word-for-word inspired, and I believe it today.

 

[RAIDER]

The claim that Ruckmanism is only one form of KJO is incorrect. EVERYBODY who is KJO got the doctrine from a man, not from the KJV. When you trace who that man got the doctrine from, the trail ALWAYS leads to Peter Ruckman.
Some Ruckmnanites contend that since they reject Ruckman?s hatred of the saints, they are not Ruckmanites. But Ruckman did not invent the doctrine that we are to hate God's people. He preached, taught, and practiced it, but he did not invent it. But he did invent the doctrine that the KJV translators were preserved from error. He later repudiated it, stating that in 1611 God rejected His Word and replaced it with the KJV.

I would change this to state that everyone who claims that the KJV is "inspired" caught it from Ruckman; many people long before Ruckman were defending the KJV, but it is, I believe, Ruckman who started calling it "inspired".

I believe Peter Ruckman, on many occasions, gave Jasper James Ray and his 1955 book "God wrote only one Bible" credit for his views on verbal, word-for-word inspiration of the KJV Bible.  Not sure Ruckman got his obscure theory on "Advanced Revelation" from anyone. Ray references "many books" that are out of print regarding the long held view of "Verbal Inspiration of the bible".

Quote from introduction in "God Wrote Only One Bible", John Jasper Ray, 1955
In the past, many books were available, which gave detailed information regarding the "fouI play" connected with the translation of Bible versions. Most of these are now out of print; therefore, this book is written to meet the need of this present spiritual emergency, when the God-given Bible doctrine of verbal
word-for-word inspiration of the Holy Scriptures is being ridiculed and even denied.

See chapter 1-7 of Ray's book.
http://www.asureguidetoheaven.org/onebible.pdf

It's been a long-standing belief among Christians that the Bible is word-for-word inspired, but that was not applied to any translation until Ruckman applied it to the KJV.  I grew up with lots of teaching that the "Bible" was word-for-word inspired, and I believe it today.

So do we have a "word for word" Bible today?

 

[Twisted]

I grew up with lots of teaching that the "Bible" was word-for-word inspired, and I believe it today.

And here is the problem in a nutshell.

Preachers stand and say that "the Bible is inspired", while waving a KJB, but they don't mean the book in their hand.

They are referring to some unseen, unfound pile of papers somewhere that don't exist.

We call that "lying" where I come from.

 

[16KJV11]

I grew up with lots of teaching that the "Bible" was word-for-word inspired, and I believe it today.

And here is the problem in a nutshell.

Preachers stand and say that "the Bible is inspired", while waving a KJB, but they don't mean the book in their hand.

They are referring to some unseen, unfound pile of papers somewhere that don't exist.

We call that "lying" where I come from.

The originals!  :