Keeping Up Appearances - No Matter The Cost

rsc2a said:
Yes...I've asked multiple individuals. How do you know it's only a drill?

I'm sure they must announce them in advance, or something.

If I knew there was a fire drill coming, and I could organize enough co-conspirators, I would likely be dressed in evening semi-formal for the occasion, and we would have a delightful bridge party on the lawn with amuse-bouches and a hired chamber quartet playing Telemann and Scarlatti for our entertainment.

Seriously, though, what's the point of a proper fire drill if you demand that everyone do something other than what they would do if they had to escape a genuine fire?
 
Firefighters lusting after girls? Really? I've heard of cops doing something like that but not firefighters. If anything it's the women who buy those firefighter calendars that do the lusting. Firefighters rescue people all the time no matter what they are wearing. If anything they are probably so used to seeing what they see that it's not provocative any more. They are some of the strongest people I know (you have to be physically and mentally fit to be a firefighter - they have higher standards than cops do) and I've never heard of any sexual assault cases in fire rescues - which I can't say the same thing for some preachers.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
It started with this post by Darrell from Stufffundieslike:

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2013/05/act-iii-keeping-up-appearances-no-matter-the-cost/

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The issue regarding women's dress standards for fire drills caught the attention of this blogger, and they decided to contact Pensacola Christian College directly to confirm their policy:


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/17/this-school-has-the-worst-fire-safety-policy-youve-ever-seen/?utm_content=bufferd81e0&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

"The other day, I posted a story about a former Pensacola Christian College student who had awful recollections of the school’s fire drill policy:

Of course PCC isn’t known for really caring much about fire safety anyway. For years the rule has remained on the books that all female students must be in “proper” attire before they leave their rooms for a fire drill. If you happen to be sleeping in pajama pants, you must take the time to put on a skirt before you try to escape the flames. If you should perish then at least you’ll know you died for the cause of not tempting the fire fighters to lust after you.

It seemed pretty unbelievable, so I sent an email to PCC asking them what their actual policy was in the case of a fire. Did they really require proper attire?

This was the response I got back:

Yes, we ask the girls if they can to grab knee length shorts or a skirt to quickly change in to. Once students exit the building they have to stand so far away from the building.

Seriously…? I had to write back.

But come on, in the case of an emergency, isn’t the first priority to get out of the building? When I was in college, if you were in the shower when a fire alarm went off, you would theoretically just have to go outside in your towel!
So maybe that policy is the hope, but if there’s a real fire, none of that really matters, right?


I got another response from the college:


Yes, the priority would be to get out of the building as quick as possible. The closets are right by the door on their way out of each room so it would be possible to be modest on their way out. A robe would even be fine."

*Sigh*

So it’s true. In the case of a fire at Pensacola Christian College, the first priority is to dress appropriately. The second priority is getting out of the building as quickly as possible. No matter how they phrase it, that’s their mindset.

Or maybe getting out is the third priority. I was too afraid to ask when students were supposed to pray.

After my last post, some commenters referred to a 2002 fire at a girls’ school in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Because they were not wearing proper religious garb, the girls were instructed to head back into a burning building. 15 girls died in the fire; who knows how many lives could have been saved if safety, not modesty, was the first priority.

I understand why PCC wants students to adhere to strict faith-based rules, but not when it could come at the expense of their own lives."

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There is a PCC related board on facebook. Two former students confirmed PCC's policy in the following posts:

"... when i was there, there WAS an actual fire on one of the floors and the RAs DID care how we were dressed and DID write up girls who had on pajama pants, even under robes."

"Um, hello, I WAS THERE....there was a fire....and girls were getting written up for having pajama pants on. do you think i'd make that up just for ***** and giggles?"

"And she's serious. Girls got written up for not being in proper attire. During an actual fire. Happened in my building. While I was there."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


What value do women really have in these places?

Are they expected to die rather than be seen in immodest attire?

PCC, and other colleges with similar policies, are putting the lives of women at risk.

I don't think they think much about men either. They think men are a bunch of lust monkeys.
 
cave_dweller said:
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........

They are grasping at straws. Again, if you think something is out of line illegally then you should go to the Escambia County Sheriffs Office.





Wow.

What? No telling Frag "No need to be rude"? Shocked I tell you, I'm shocked at your hypocrisy!

Well....I would be if you hadn't already been rude several times after the same remark you made in your initial post in this thread.  LOL
 
weaker-brother said:
Leaving without keys or a change of clothing is simply a bit of an inconvenience - nothing to risk safety over.
Requiring students to change clothing before exiting a burning building shows very mixed up priorities.

Nobody said change clothing till now.  The school said a robe is ok, so throw a bathrobe/housecoat on over what you got on is the idea.  This was in one of the first few posts.  Unless I missed it, nobody but you said "change clothing" which is a far cry from changing your outfit, nice try, but that is going the the extreme and misconstruing what the school said--that a robe grabbed on the way out of the room would be fine.

You are also taking to extreme the danger to life of a few seconds to get a robe on.  Do you sleep so lightly that you are awake and conscious on the first partial beep of a fire alarm?  If not then you are putting your own life in danger-right?  Horrible, Life-Threatening Danger.  Second after second until you are cognizant.

Maybe you should compare 10 seconds, like I am going to take in a fire, to the average times of a school getting everyone out in a fire drill.  I'm remembering one school was happy if they got everybody out in under 2 minutes, though at the start of the year it was closer to 3 minutes.
Check with schools in your area for actual evacuation times.  How does the 10 seconds (or less) to grab a robe compare to a couple of minutes?  Why don't you explain your angst about risk of life to your local public or private schools?  Why pick on PCC and not others? 
You exaggerate the risk of life for those a few seconds, and exaggerate the grabbing of a robe, turning it into the school requiring full dressing before leaving the building--and expect to have people not call you on it? 

These days I would get the car keys and wallet and a pistol, because I carry everywhere. They are in my pants. folded on a chair, just so I can grab them quickly at a moments notice in the middle of the night.  It is *seconds* to be dressed enough for modesty, armed for self defense, with keys for transportation, money to buy food that day, and credit cards to get a hotel room the next night, identification for cashing checks, etc--is all that just the "inconvenience" that you refer to? 

Imagine instead, standing on the curb in your scorched underwear, no car keys to go anywhere, no id to cash a check or access a bank account, no credit card to buy food or lodging,  not even a cellphone, no money, in other words totally dependent on others for your immediate care (and that of your family)--all because you do not conceive a fire could happen (or a midnight burglary), and are unwilling to be prepared, even just a little bit.    I know which scenario I want to face.  I have an abc fire extinguisher mounted on the wall in the kitchen and 6 of them in my shop, so I have given thought to safety.  To what extent have those of you who are so concerned for your children in bible college cared for their safety (other than participating in this discussion)?  Have you bought them a fire extinguisher for their dorm room, even?  Thought not.  You seem to be concerned for their safety only when an issue you don't like--modesty, that you disagree with them on, is brought up. 

People seem to be making a mountain out of the risk of grabbing a robe, like that is an additional risk of life.
So is walking on a sidewalk--people get killed on sidewalks every year!  The Danger, the Horror...
Going outside? You should never step outside because thing DO fall out of the sky.  Tut, tut, wouldn't want to risk it.
And LIGHTNING!  Better stay inside.

If you guys' game is jumping on PCC, then chose a better example, like the rule that students cannot have Bible Study groups in the dorms.  Or their doctrines--there is plenty there for you there!

I would say it's evident at least a couple people here have never been in a serious earthquake. I've been lucky enough to grab the blanket around me getting out of the house as fast as possible. I have had a friend run out of the house naked. Ten seconds? That can be an eternity, literally, in an earthquake. Good thing PCC is in Florida and not California.
 
brianb said:
I don't think they think much about men either. They think men are a bunch of lust monkeys.

I agree. They believe men can not control themselves and women are hopeless temptresses.
What a warped view of relationships and sexuality.
 
cave_dweller said:
I am sure there is a big difference between a fire drill, and a real life fire with deadly flames roaring. Talk about something else already.

The dead horse isn't dead enough yet. 
 
Ransom wrote:
If I knew there was a fire drill coming, and I could organize enough co-conspirators, I would likely be dressed in evening semi-formal for the occasion, and we would have a delightful bridge party on the lawn with amuse-bouches and a hired chamber quartet playing Telemann and Scarlatti for our entertainment.

It really was tres amusant! Except...who really likes Telemann and Scarlatti string quartets?
 
Still no answer.

Why should/would someone who just escaped a fire be embarrassed and red faced because they are wearing their pajamas and robe?
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Really? The weight of this rule could cost a young girl her life. I believe they are WAY out of line to expect a woman (who probably already is modest) to dress "appropriately" to flee a fire. After all, a fire drill is to practice exiting a building AS IF there is a real genuine fire.
 
admin said:
Problem. This would be interpreted as a scene reenactment from Titanic. Titanic was rated R. You must have seen a rated R movie. 50 demerits for going to the movies and 25 more because it was R-rated.

I'll just tell them I saw it before I was saved.
 
Just John said:
I would say it's evident at least a couple people here have never been in a serious earthquake. I've been lucky enough to grab the blanket around me getting out of the house as fast as possible. I have had a friend run out of the house naked. Ten seconds? That can be an eternity, literally, in an earthquake. Good thing PCC is in Florida and not California.

Earthquakes are why good Christians take showers fully dressed. There is no excuse for leaving your naked body behind to stir up lust in the hearts of the people who will dig your corpse out of the rubble.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow.

Or they might be waived if they were wearing matching socks.  :-*

NO!  They would receive TRIPLE demerits, as well as a sound flogging.  NO exceptions. 
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Frag]I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........

And how do you know it's only a drill?
[/quote]


The .00234 seconds it would take to reach out on your way out the door and grab the robe and then slip it on as you head to the door would hardly alter one's fate....
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow.


No, the demerits were NOT waived during an actual fire. Pensacola Christian College actually handed ladies demerits for not being properly dressed when they evacuated the building.

Proven: They care more about strict dress standards than the women themselves.


You saying it hardly proves anything.  Haters will say anything. 
 
subllibrm said:
Still no answer.

Why should/would someone who just escaped a fire be embarrassed and red faced because they are wearing their pajamas and robe?


Exactly.  And as AMAZEDATMODESTY already stated, PCC is fine with you grabbing a robe.
 
When a young lady is properly raised to be a lady, modesty becomes second nature. 

A LADY would not have to be told to grab the robe off the end of her bed.  It would be reflex.  I was blessed to have a mother that is a LADY, blessed to have a wife who is a LADY, and blessed to raise three young LADIES. 

Again, to a LADY, modesty is second nature.  Those who have spent their lives "strutting their stuff" and then blaming men for their reaction to it will never understand.  Indecency is their norm.  So they are shocked by anyone to whom modesty is the norm.
 
Frag said:
When a young lady is properly raised to be a lady, modesty becomes second nature. 

A LADY would not have to be told to grab the robe off the end of her bed.  It would be reflex.  I was blessed to have a mother that is a LADY, blessed to have a wife who is a LADY, and blessed to raise three young LADIES. 

Again, to a LADY, modesty is second nature.  Those who have spent their lives "strutting their stuff" and then blaming men for their reaction to it will never understand.  Indecency is their norm.  So they are shocked by anyone to whom modesty is the norm.

I bet most of these girls at PPC are probably well covered in their nightwear - and the thought to need more coverage would seem silly to most people.
 
Frag said:
subllibrm said:
Still no answer.

Why should/would someone who just escaped a fire be embarrassed and red faced because they are wearing their pajamas and robe?


Exactly.  And as AMAZEDATMODESTY already stated, PCC is fine with you grabbing a robe.

You obviously missed the antecedent to my question. weaker-brother told a story of a guy who only had time for grabbing his robe before getting out of a dorm fire. He went on to say how he felt bad for the guy because it was embarrassing to sit there in his jammies and robe and the guy was all red faced about it. Really, the guy just escaped a fire and he is worried about what other people think? That seems ludicrous until you realize that weaker-brother proved the guy right by making a big deal out of the guy sitting there in his robe and jammies.

The story:

One fellow was in the shower--I will withhold his name--and got out with pajamas and a blue plaid bathrobe.  Temporarily, the school opened the cafeteria between meals for displaced people till they got things sorted out,
and there he sat, in the cafeteria in his bathrobe and slippers, trying to look as though everything was fine, while hundreds of people dressed up came in and out for lunch.  Not going to be me--ever.


I am still trying to figure out what was embarrassing and why he was red faced.

So Frag, we are not on the same side of this issue at all. See my post about naked corpses after earthquakes.
 
Frag said:
When a young lady is properly raised to be a lady, modesty becomes second nature. 

A LADY would not have to be told to grab the robe off the end of her bed.  It would be reflex.  I was blessed to have a mother that is a LADY, blessed to have a wife who is a LADY, and blessed to raise three young LADIES. 

Again, to a LADY, modesty is second nature.  Those who have spent their lives "strutting their stuff" and then blaming men for their reaction to it will never understand.  Indecency is their norm.  So they are shocked by anyone to whom modesty is the norm.

LADY or TROLLOP! Those are the only possibilities in your world? Of course you get to do all the defining of terms so you will never be wrong.

FWIW Frag, my wife wears pajama pants and is a LADY! Not that you would be able to comprehend such a stick in the spokes of your hamster cage brain process.
 
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