Keeping Up Appearances - No Matter The Cost

A fire, and a fire drill, are traumatic experiences that naturally cause people to panic on some level. Getting out of a burning building safely should be the only concern. When we have fire drills where I work, the Fire Department shows up and makes sure we followed all the rules and they also look over our fire escape plan. This leaves me wondering - what would PCC's local fire department say about this rule?

Rules are hard to follow when you panic. The most basic rules are needed for fire escape.
 
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow. 
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow.

Or they might be waived if they were wearing matching socks.  :-*
 
[quote author=Frag]I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........[/quote]

And how do you know it's only a drill?
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow.

But is that the only reason they got demerits? Or did they get demerits for wearing pajamas?
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
It started with this post by Darrell from Stufffundieslike:

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2013/05/act-iii-keeping-up-appearances-no-matter-the-cost/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The issue regarding women's dress standards for fire drills caught the attention of this blogger, and they decided to contact Pensacola Christian College directly to confirm their policy:


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/17/this-school-has-the-worst-fire-safety-policy-youve-ever-seen/?utm_content=bufferd81e0&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

"The other day, I posted a story about a former Pensacola Christian College student who had awful recollections of the school’s fire drill policy:

Of course PCC isn’t known for really caring much about fire safety anyway. For years the rule has remained on the books that all female students must be in “proper” attire before they leave their rooms for a fire drill. If you happen to be sleeping in pajama pants, you must take the time to put on a skirt before you try to escape the flames. If you should perish then at least you’ll know you died for the cause of not tempting the fire fighters to lust after you.

It seemed pretty unbelievable, so I sent an email to PCC asking them what their actual policy was in the case of a fire. Did they really require proper attire?

This was the response I got back:

Yes, we ask the girls if they can to grab knee length shorts or a skirt to quickly change in to. Once students exit the building they have to stand so far away from the building.

Seriously…? I had to write back.

But come on, in the case of an emergency, isn’t the first priority to get out of the building? When I was in college, if you were in the shower when a fire alarm went off, you would theoretically just have to go outside in your towel!
So maybe that policy is the hope, but if there’s a real fire, none of that really matters, right?


I got another response from the college:


Yes, the priority would be to get out of the building as quick as possible. The closets are right by the door on their way out of each room so it would be possible to be modest on their way out. A robe would even be fine."

*Sigh*

So it’s true. In the case of a fire at Pensacola Christian College, the first priority is to dress appropriately. The second priority is getting out of the building as quickly as possible. No matter how they phrase it, that’s their mindset.

Or maybe getting out is the third priority. I was too afraid to ask when students were supposed to pray.

After my last post, some commenters referred to a 2002 fire at a girls’ school in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Because they were not wearing proper religious garb, the girls were instructed to head back into a burning building. 15 girls died in the fire; who knows how many lives could have been saved if safety, not modesty, was the first priority.

I understand why PCC wants students to adhere to strict faith-based rules, but not when it could come at the expense of their own lives."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There is a PCC related board on facebook. Two former students confirmed PCC's policy in the following posts:

"... when i was there, there WAS an actual fire on one of the floors and the RAs DID care how we were dressed and DID write up girls who had on pajama pants, even under robes."

"Um, hello, I WAS THERE....there was a fire....and girls were getting written up for having pajama pants on. do you think i'd make that up just for ***** and giggles?"

"And she's serious. Girls got written up for not being in proper attire. During an actual fire. Happened in my building. While I was there."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


What value do women really have in these places?

Are they expected to die rather than be seen in immodest attire?

PCC, and other colleges with similar policies, are putting the lives of women at risk.

Someone should report this to the proper authorities. This should be against the law. I don't think PCC has any idea how dangerous a fire is. There is no time to put on clothes so maybe they should be wearing day clothes to bed if they care about it so much - just a suggestion not something I think should be done. I don't think they'll care about appearances any more if someone died in the fire - despite what you think about PCC I don't think they are as bad as extremist Muslims - just ignorant that's all.
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........

They are grasping at straws. Again, if you think something is out of line illegally then you should go to the Escambia County Sheriffs Office.





Wow.
 
weaker-brother said:
Sermon?  I hope you are kidding.  I told a true story, on topic, that happened to me, and said I thought the idea of making an issue of the rule was silly.  That is a sermon?  Sorry you think so.

I never said sermon. You have me mistaken for someone else.

weaker-brother said:
I said not going to be me ever because I would have gotten my pants and keys and wallet. Had he done so, he would have had options and not been sitting there embarrassed. I felt bad for him sitting there red-faced because he had no options.

What did he have to be embarrassed about? He was fleeing a fire!

You said he was wearing his PJs and a robe. Or put another way, totally dressed. But you seem to believe that he was somehow caught in an immodest moment.

You should have all been thankful to get out safely and not be worrying that someone saw his flannel cowboy print pajamas.  ::)
 
subllibrm said:
weaker-brother said:
Sermon?  I hope you are kidding.  I told a true story, on topic, that happened to me, and said I thought the idea of making an issue of the rule was silly.  That is a sermon?  Sorry you think so.

I never said sermon. You have me mistaken for someone else.

weaker-brother said:
I said not going to be me ever because I would have gotten my pants and keys and wallet. Had he done so, he would have had options and not been sitting there embarrassed. I felt bad for him sitting there red-faced because he had no options.

What did he have to be embarrassed about? He was fleeing a fire!

You said he was wearing his PJs and a robe. Or put another way, totally dressed. But you seem to believe that he was somehow caught in an immodest moment.

You should have all been thankful to get out safely and not be worrying that someone saw his flannel cowboy print pajamas.  ::)

I am sure there is a big difference between a fire drill, and a real life fire with deadly flames roaring. Talk about something else already.
 
[quote author=cave_dweller]I am sure there is a big difference between a fire drill, and a real life fire with deadly flames roaring. Talk about something else already.[/quote]

Yes...I've asked multiple individuals. How do you know it's only a drill?
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........

Wow.

Frag,

how does a person know when it is a drill and when it is real? What if it were some wiseacre pulling the alarm at 2 AM?

I am not the least surprised that you would come down on this side of the issue. But just make sure you are informed of why your position is just plain dumb, immodesty is as much an attitude as it is a visual state. In an emergency situation modesty "rules" have no real point do they? Who is going to get "turned on" by these brazen hussies? The fireman offering them a blanket to keep warm?

I would much rather my daughter be temporarily out of "uniform" until the police offer her a blanket than she be in a body bag because she couldn't find proper attire in the confusion of the moment.

Or it could be the little trollop down the hall pulled the alarm because she wanted to parade and sashay around in front of those firemen and police officers in her flannel nightgown. You know how those men are, red lights, sirens and lust!

Or maybe this is a good way for the schools to do a "are your jammies acceptable check" from time to time. Wouldn't want those girls sleeping in provocative outfits. You know like sweat pants and t-shirts or even worse, t-shirt and just her UNDIES!!! The horror! So we must occasionally roust the whole student body out of their sound sleep so we can make sure everyone is in compliance.

Oh yeah, and Wow right back at you.
 
cave_dweller said:
I am sure there is a big difference between a fire drill, and a real life fire with deadly flames roaring. Talk about something else already.

I asked weaker to explain his position about the "embarrassment" of pajamas. If you want to answer that question feel free. If you don't like my question feel free to butt out. IOW I wasn't talking to you.
 
Leaving without keys or a change of clothing is simply a bit of an inconvenience - nothing to risk safety over.
Requiring students to change clothing before exiting a burning building shows very mixed up priorities.

Nobody said change clothing till now.  The school said a robe is ok, so throw a bathrobe/housecoat on over what you got on is the idea.  This was in one of the first few posts.  Unless I missed it, nobody but you said "change clothing" which is a far cry from changing your outfit, nice try, but that is going the the extreme and misconstruing what the school said--that a robe grabbed on the way out of the room would be fine.

You are also taking to extreme the danger to life of a few seconds to get a robe on.  Do you sleep so lightly that you are awake and conscious on the first partial beep of a fire alarm?  If not then you are putting your own life in danger-right?  Horrible, Life-Threatening Danger.  Second after second until you are cognizant.

Maybe you should compare 10 seconds, like I am going to take in a fire, to the average times of a school getting everyone out in a fire drill.  I'm remembering one school was happy if they got everybody out in under 2 minutes, though at the start of the year it was closer to 3 minutes.
Check with schools in your area for actual evacuation times.  How does the 10 seconds (or less) to grab a robe compare to a couple of minutes?  Why don't you explain your angst about risk of life to your local public or private schools?  Why pick on PCC and not others? 
You exaggerate the risk of life for those a few seconds, and exaggerate the grabbing of a robe, turning it into the school requiring full dressing before leaving the building--and expect to have people not call you on it? 

These days I would get the car keys and wallet and a pistol, because I carry everywhere. They are in my pants. folded on a chair, just so I can grab them quickly at a moments notice in the middle of the night.  It is *seconds* to be dressed enough for modesty, armed for self defense, with keys for transportation, money to buy food that day, and credit cards to get a hotel room the next night, identification for cashing checks, etc--is all that just the "inconvenience" that you refer to? 

Imagine instead, standing on the curb in your scorched underwear, no car keys to go anywhere, no id to cash a check or access a bank account, no credit card to buy food or lodging,  not even a cellphone, no money, in other words totally dependent on others for your immediate care (and that of your family)--all because you do not conceive a fire could happen (or a midnight burglary), and are unwilling to be prepared, even just a little bit.    I know which scenario I want to face.  I have an abc fire extinguisher mounted on the wall in the kitchen and 6 of them in my shop, so I have given thought to safety.  To what extent have those of you who are so concerned for your children in bible college cared for their safety (other than participating in this discussion)?  Have you bought them a fire extinguisher for their dorm room, even?  Thought not.  You seem to be concerned for their safety only when an issue you don't like--modesty, that you disagree with them on, is brought up. 

People seem to be making a mountain out of the risk of grabbing a robe, like that is an additional risk of life.
So is walking on a sidewalk--people get killed on sidewalks every year!  The Danger, the Horror...
Going outside? You should never step outside because thing DO fall out of the sky.  Tut, tut, wouldn't want to risk it.
And LIGHTNING!  Better stay inside.

If you guys' game is jumping on PCC, then chose a better example, like the rule that students cannot have Bible Study groups in the dorms.  Or their doctrines--there is plenty there for you there!


 
weaker-brother said:
People seem to be making a mountain out of the risk of grabbing a robe, like that is an additional risk of life.

I am curious why you think sitting in pajamas and robe after escaping a fire is embarrassing and cause to be red faced.
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=cave_dweller]A doctrinal issue and personal issue are very different. If you can't understand that then you need to be hit in the head with a tack hammer  :)

Except in PCC's case, the personal issue is a doctrinal issue.
[/quote]

And there we have it. :-)    ^^truth.
 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=Frag]I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........

And how do you know it's only a drill?
[/quote]

Correct.  Because if a student KNOWS it's a drill, then they'll probably go to bed fully clothed in preparation.
 
Mental imaginings of some folks -

Fireman thinking to himself.

"I sure hope we get a dormitory fire sometime so I can see girls in their pajamas."

::)
 
Frag said:
PCC is hardly out of line to ask the young ladies to grab a robe on their way out the door during a fire drill.

Modesty is a concept long ago lost on AMAZEDBYCOMMMONSENSE....

I am sure that demerits would be waived if they were fleeing flames...........but we are talking about a fire drill........





Wow.


No, the demerits were NOT waived during an actual fire. Pensacola Christian College actually handed ladies demerits for not being properly dressed when they evacuated the building.

Proven: They care more about strict dress standards than the women themselves.
 
weaker-brother said:
Nobody said change clothing till now.  The school said a robe is ok, so throw a bathrobe/housecoat on over what you got on is the idea.  This was in one of the first few posts.  Unless I missed it, nobody but you said "change clothing" which is a far cry from changing your outfit, nice try, but that is going the the extreme and misconstruing what the school said--that a robe grabbed on the way out of the room would be fine.

You are also taking to extreme the danger to life of a few seconds to get a robe on.  Do you sleep so lightly that you are awake and conscious on the first partial beep of a fire alarm?  If not then you are putting your own life in danger-right?  Horrible, Life-Threatening Danger.  Second after second until you are cognizant.

Maybe you should compare 10 seconds, like I am going to take in a fire, to the average times of a school getting everyone out in a fire drill.  I'm remembering one school was happy if they got everybody out in under 2 minutes, though at the start of the year it was closer to 3 minutes.
Check with schools in your area for actual evacuation times.  How does the 10 seconds (or less) to grab a robe compare to a couple of minutes?  Why don't you explain your angst about risk of life to your local public or private schools?  Why pick on PCC and not others? 
You exaggerate the risk of life for those a few seconds, and exaggerate the grabbing of a robe, turning it into the school requiring full dressing before leaving the building--and expect to have people not call you on it? 

These days I would get the car keys and wallet and a pistol, because I carry everywhere. They are in my pants. folded on a chair, just so I can grab them quickly at a moments notice in the middle of the night.  It is *seconds* to be dressed enough for modesty, armed for self defense, with keys for transportation, money to buy food that day, and credit cards to get a hotel room the next night, identification for cashing checks, etc--is all that just the "inconvenience" that you refer to? 

Imagine instead, standing on the curb in your scorched underwear, no car keys to go anywhere, no id to cash a check or access a bank account, no credit card to buy food or lodging,  not even a cellphone, no money, in other words totally dependent on others for your immediate care (and that of your family)--all because you do not conceive a fire could happen (or a midnight burglary), and are unwilling to be prepared, even just a little bit.    I know which scenario I want to face.  I have an abc fire extinguisher mounted on the wall in the kitchen and 6 of them in my shop, so I have given thought to safety.  To what extent have those of you who are so concerned for your children in bible college cared for their safety (other than participating in this discussion)?  Have you bought them a fire extinguisher for their dorm room, even?  Thought not.  You seem to be concerned for their safety only when an issue you don't like--modesty, that you disagree with them on, is brought up. 

People seem to be making a mountain out of the risk of grabbing a robe, like that is an additional risk of life.
So is walking on a sidewalk--people get killed on sidewalks every year!  The Danger, the Horror...
Going outside? You should never step outside because thing DO fall out of the sky.  Tut, tut, wouldn't want to risk it.
And LIGHTNING!  Better stay inside.

If you guys' game is jumping on PCC, then chose a better example, like the rule that students cannot have Bible Study groups in the dorms.  Or their doctrines--there is plenty there for you there!

Read the quote from PCC in the OP. They want the girls to grab a skirt or knee length shorts to put on before exiting the room. If they are wearing pj pants, this involves changing clothes.

"Yes, we ask the girls if they can to grab knee length shorts or a skirt to quickly change in to."

So, I am ignoring the rest of your post as it was based on a faulty premise.
 
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