Jim Vineyard

Cracked pot #7: JAV has a way with his staff


JAV has a way with his staff

Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-20-02 7:33am

JAV is legendary when it comes to his relationship with staff. Being a despot and a Christian is a difficult balance. It is a balance that JAV has struggled with since he began as pastor of WHBC. Part of the reason for this difficulty is his military background (which did weird things to his mind) and his tutelage with "Crazy" John Rawlings and his five and a half years with Jack Hyles. When you combine the coarse crudeness of a Rawlings and then mix the intrigue and legalism of Hyles, you have nearly a lethal mixture when it comes to staff relations.

Early in his tenure as pastor at Windsor Hills JAV philosophy was to hire young guys right out of college. His attitude was too work them till they dropped and if they quit, he could always hire more and he did. In the first few years there at Windsor he had a revolving door when it came to staff. Some staff lasted a year some two years and a few even made it three or more years. Most of the staff were right out of college and were full of enthusiasm and short on experience. Most importantly they were young, eager, very impressionable and hopefully easy to intimidate and control.

One such staff member was a young man recruited from Hyles Anderson College named Dan Cregan. Dan was from New York and was a fish out of water down in Oklahoma. His northern accent and Yankee ways made him stand out but he was a hard worker and is still in the ministry today. Dan started as a combination church janitor and bus director. His heart was in the bus ministry and he loved that aspect of the ministry. It seemed that Cregan and JAV were like oil and water especially as time moved along, they could not get along.

It became apparent that there was some real trouble brewing because JAV called Cregan into his office and pulled the shade down on his door window. Whenever the shade came down it was for privacy and was a sign to all to not disturb. After a few minutes a private conversation became very personal because of the screaming from the inner office. Then you see pictures being knocked off the walls in the outer office from bodies being slammed against the wall on the other side. The secretaries excused themselves because it was obvious that there was a fighting JAV office between the preacher and Cregan.

After a few minutes Cregan exited JAV office and it was pretty easy to see that he had lost the fight. He was rubbing his jaw and complained that he might of broken his jaw. Cregan talked of getting a lawyer and suing JAV, the other staff did their best to talk him out of that. Later on that day Cregan and another staff member were out on visitation, JAV saw him driving and pulled him over. As he walked up to the car Cregan wondered if it was round two. Vineyard said "Dan as far as I'm concerned , it's over." That was as close to an apology as you one would gat from JAV.

It was far from over because JAV has a way with staff. For the last 25 years stories with his staff are better than fiction. No one could make up fictional stories that can compare with the true life ones of working with JAV and you think that I'm a cracked pot. JAV has a way with his staff!
 
Happycamper's response to a critic:

So, you acknowledge his crudeness and you imply it repulses you? Did you ever tell JAV29 that directly?

How about the things you don't need to have anyone verify.....

He uses a picture of a dead young men to envoke a "holy" fear of not doing what he says.

He tells the President of the United States to "go to Hell".

He makes crude comments about his secretaries "ass-sets", of course, just checking the equipment, you know....

He asks graphic sexual questions of young ladies during counseling (do you get horny when you look at yourself naked in the mirror, does it make you mas*******) ...... and ADMITS it on live television -- no denial possible here.


He calls a pastor who questions him on this, whose SISTER is one of the victims of the verbal sexual harassment of JAV29, a "pharisaical fart".

He goes on a revenge tirade to discredit those who he views as "enemies"..... i.e. Tim Lee, Jay Barnett, .....do you need more?????

Do you think his public crudeness stops in public?? Take a class on sex crimes investigation, or a Psychology or Counseling course and study the classic profile of a perpetrator and victimology. The public troubles you see are amplified in private. Those of us who have seen it behind the scenes, where you evidently haven't been, have no trouble accepting the witness of Cracked pot.

You may have gone to OBC with your head in the clouds, the sand, or elsewhere, bowing to the Mannagod, but those of us who have worked on his staff know the veracity of the Cracked pot stories.

Do you want verification of the "Cracked pot" stories? Call Jerry Prevo at Anchorage Baptist Temple, Anchorage, Alaska. Go ahead, make the call. He was the pastor where JAV29 gave his "29 brag" speech.

As far as dragging "his name" through the mud....

Do you mean JAV29's name or the Lord's name?

JAV29 has been dragging God's name through the mud for years, so if you don't like the posting on this forum about his hurtful actions towards God's people done in the name of Serving Christ......



Drop your complaints on JAV29's door, that's where they belong.

As far as condoning JAV29's behavior, you are doing so by standing on his side.

"For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds". 2 John 11



http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahoma-baptist-college/12082-tim-lee.html
 
Cracked Pot # 29 Cracked pot's take on the Jack Hudson story....

Re: JAV story Correction from Cracked pot

Posted by Cracked pot on Jun-29-04 2:16pm

(In reply to: JAV story posted by eli on Jun-28-04 9:57pm)

That story is all wrong. That incident started in Northside Baptist church in 1975 or 76. JAV was preaching for Jack Hudson. He was his usual wild man and acting like a jack donkey.

He preached in the new building that Northside had just finished. The pastor Dr. Jack Hudson, was godly man who was stricken with arthritis. It would take several hours for him to get dressed in the mornings because he could not lift his arms above his head. He was crippled by the pain of his arthritis. Just to be there in the early service was quite the feat for Dr. Hudson.

During the message JAV got all wound up on preachers that were pretty boys. They had to have every hair in place. He walked over to Dr. Hudson and messed up his hair. Dr. Hudson's hair was standing up all over his head after JAV got done with his vigorous scalp message. Dr. Hudson sat there totally humiliated, physically unable to move his hands high enough to smooth out his disheveled hair. The people sat there in shock because everyone knew, except for JAV, that Dr. Hudson could not even comb his hair. Dr' Hudson did not say a word and let JAV keep on preaching.

JAV then began to act out Jehu and Jezebel. He was up standing on the chairs on the pulpit area riding his chariot like Jehu. Then he got to the part of the story where he got to flinging down Jezebel. He grabbed a chair from the choir and acted like it was Jezebel and he flung it down of the platform on to the altar area of the front of the church.

Dr. Hudson had enough. He stood, with his hair still messed up, and kindly told JAV that he was done preaching. He basically said that God's people had sacrificed to buy those chairs and that he wasn't going to let him tear up the church. JAV folded up his Bible and walked out.

He was still a vice president of HAC. He came back the next day and the student body received him back as a hero. Hyles gave a vastly different story than the true one that you just read. JAV was no hero or martyr. He was a nut 30 years ago and I got money on the fact that he may still be.

As Paul Harvey said..."and now you know the rest of the story." And you think that I'm a cracked pot...
 
Cracked pot #3: JAV has a way with animals


JAV has a way with animals


Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-14-02 7:55am

As many know, JAV loves to fish and hunt. He got heavy into quail hunting and decided to buy himself a bird dog. He did and he named his new dog "Pete". Pete was trained to be the quintessential bird dog at a cost of $1,200. and now they were ready for the quail hunt.

Pete put his nose down and the hunt was on. Back and forth Pete went through the fields. The dog was just beautiful to watch. Suddenly Pete was on the trail of some quail and the chase was on and on and on. After some investigation it was determined that Pete was chasing field mice, not quail. JAV just passed it off because he surmised that the mice and the quail had been hanging around together so the scent was on the mice. It was an honest mistake besides $1,200 had been paid out to train Pete, the mice chasing dog.

After Pete was turned loose again he took off, licidy split. He was gone. As only JAV could yell he cried "Woe, Pete, Woe!" Pete obviously hadn't been trained on the word woe. He was nearly in another county before he circled back and began to woe. When JAV got a hold of Pete he wished he had wooed! JAV was hot. He pounded on the dog and in a near frenzy he yelled, "When I say woe, I mean woe!" For emphasis he pounded woe into the skull of Pete!

Something had be done with Pete, he needed to be slowed down. JAV decided that Pete could be calmed down if you hooked to him 10 lbs logging chains. If one chain would work two chains would be even better. So with 20 lbs of chain in tow, Pete started off with his nose to the ground going through the fields hunting quail. After a while you could tell that it really slowed down Pete. In fact it stopped Pete completely. One of the WHBC staff members who was along on the hunt got the job of caring poor Pete. I guess that Pete was petered out!

Do you wonder what happened to Pete? One day in order to save sometime JAV decided that he would just put Pate in the back of the SUV. After some hours of hunting they decided to get something to eat. They left Pete in the SUV with the windows up tight. The poor dog overheated and died. He went to the bird hunt in the sky. JAV really has a way with animals! And you think I'm the cracked pot!
 
Cracked pot #9: JAV has a way with church members


JAV has a way with church members

Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-22-02 9:24am

One of the more bizarre stories from the hallowed halls of WHBC was about a church member that JAV suspected was gay or "queer" as he would say. This man was married and had children. But for some reason JAV thought he was gay. there were even some of this man's cousins that could have been asked about it, right in town, but JAV had his mind made up...he is a queer and he had to go.

JAV decided that they needed proof of his homosexuality so he got one of the staff members to poise as if he were gay. This staff member was "soft" in appearance but not homosexual. He was a teacher in the school, not the college and was also a pilot of single engine airplanes. Some will know exactly who this Mark is.

Mark was to be the bait for helping this church member to admit that he was homosexual. They put a two-way mirror in the wall from the bedroom and the living room of Mark's house. On the other side of the wall they installed a movie cameras to catch it all on tape. They then had Mark slip into something more comfortable like his "P. J.'s" and then he invited the church member over.

After a few minutes of acting interested, Mark popped the big question, "are you a homosexual?" The guy was pretty adamant that he wasn't. He left and now what would they do? JAV still suspected that he was homosexual. JAV decided that he was gay because he could spot those queers a mile off.

The next Sunday night at the end of the service the suspected gay church member was kicked off the membership role by a vote of the church. In order to protect the man's family JAV swore the church to secrecy and admonished them not to talk about it. You know JAV has a way of being a private eye and dealing with those gay church members and you think that I am the Cracked pot.
 
Cracked pot #14: They could not take the Preaching!


They could not take the preaching!


Posted by Cracked pot on Jan-16-03 5:55pm

There was a deacon at WHBC was truly unbelievable, his name was Merle Freeman. Merle loved his church and worked tirelessly around the church as a free maintenance man. He could do about anything and saved the church $1,000 of dallors every year in repairs. He worked at the FAA school in town but after work he would have a project going at the church usually several nights a week. He lived about a block from the church and it was his home away from home.

Merle had been a member of the church for many years and he and his wife were pillars of the church. His wife was named Margie and she was a very sweet lady in her 50's. She was a country cook who could fry catfish and hushpuppies like few people in the world. She and Merle were hospitable people and opened their home frequently and especially their kitchen to the pastor, staff and members of the church. It was not unusual to have people eat at their home 2 or 3 times a week.

There was a problem, however. Margie wore pants when they went fishing. The Freeman's enjoy fishing and when they went she wore britches. That caused a problem for JAV because before long he passed a rule that deacons wife could not wear pants. It became a struggle because she didn't feel that wearing a dress while fishing was too modest. It became a battle. Merle was placed on the horns of a dilemma. Resign as a deacon or force his wife to do something that she didn't want to do for JAV.

What really caused the problem was an encounter at the lake near the church. One afternoon Margie got a phone call to Mrs. JAV that she was she was going to kill herself. She had a revolver and she was going to end it all. Naturally Margie rushed to the Lake Overhouser to met the preachers wife. After 3 hours of hearing how much she hated the ministry and how ripped off she felt because her husband used to be an insurance man with lots of money and then what a beast JAV was, she clamed down and put off her plans to end it all. Here was the problem....Margie knew too much, she had the inside scope.

Systematically from that time there was a concerted effort to rid Merle and Margie from the church. The pressure was turned up and the kitchen got real hot for the Freeman's. Finally JAV made their house off limits for the employees of WHBC. No one was allowed to eat there anymore. No one was allowed to fellowship with the Freeman's. It was as if they were lepers and unclean. It wasn't too long before they left the church because they were forced out.

That began the open door in the back of WHBC. People who didn't fall into lock step with JAV's convictions were forced out. Then started one of JAV's favorite terms..."They could not take the preaching." 1,000's could not take the preaching since the Freeman's left. JAV's preaching has been his own worst enemy because most people can't take it.
 
Cracked pot #4: JAV has a way with people


JAV sure has a way with people

Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-15-02 7:59am

One of the more bizarre stories from the JAV file is the story from the early days in his tenure as pastor of Windsor Hills. Many may not know or remember that Windsor Hills was officially a SBC church when JAV was called as pastor. It was an independent acting church but was still constitutionally an SBC church.

The church ran around 300 and was a very stable church. Many good and wonderful people attended and loved their church. One of the first major changes was get those britches off those hussy women. That became one of the major feats and drives of JAV early ministry there. Those pants had to go!

There were some who resisted "giving up" their pants. More pressure was applied, the people endured more bellowing from the pulpit. Graphic descriptions where given from the pulpit about how a woman's backside looked in pants. You would hear from the sacred desk comments like "when the Lord said let your light shine before men, He wasn't talking about your tail lights"! It became a constant theme in nearly every sermon. JAV would rejoice as much when a women gave up her britches as he did when a lost sinner got saved.

Naturally there was some who didn't want to give up their pants. Some honestly thought that was their preacher's preference and not the clear teaching of the Bible. The heat was turned up. The litmus test soon became that if you were a deacon your wife couldn't wear pants. that same test was applied to Sunday School teachers, chior members etc.

There was a deacon who was a pharmacists at a local hospital in town. He was a good, kind and caring man. He had older teens when JAV came to the church as pastor and their was some rebellion against the pants rule.

The Smith family hung in their for months and even years but they were on the JAV black list. They were worthless people and had worthless kids because they wouldn't bow to JAV intimidation. They finally left the church. They were good people, they had one of their daughters away at TTU in Chattanooga TN.

One night their eldest son was in car wreck and was tragically killed. It was a very sad time for them and for many of their former friends who still attended WHBC. JAV has such a way with people that he sent Bob Ross over to the funeral home and he took some pictures of their son in the casket. Those pictures for the next few years became a visual aid to those who didn't do what JAV said. He would keep the pictures in his desk drawer and when someone came to his office to leave the church he would toss them the picture to them and say "Is this what you want to happen to your child?"

And you think that I am a cracked pot. JAV sure has a way with people!
 
ABG do not know if you were going to repost these or not but here are links to the first 8 by Dr Braveheart.

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fighting-forum/5878-dr-braveheart-1-what-do-false-accusers.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fighting-forum/6048-dr-braveheart-2-thou-shalt-not-have-bawl.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fighting-forum/6429-dr-braveheart-3-inherent-handicap-mennagod-critics.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahoma-baptist-college/6689-dr-braveheart-4-we-end-times.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fighting-forum/7217-dr-braveheart-5-iraqnaphobia.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahoma-baptist-college/8358-dr-braveheart-6-adios-rickey.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahoma-baptist-college/8787-dr-braveheart-7-advice-best-taken-not-ignored.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahoma-baptist-college/10089-dr-braveheart-8-brother-busybodys-briefs.html

 
IFB X-Files said:
After reading all that, I'm convinced that Mel Gibson should play Vineyard in the movie.
Click to expand...
Right on.

Anishinabe

 
Just me said:
ABG do not know if you were going to repost these or not but here are links to the first 8 by Dr Braveheart.

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...users.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...-bawl.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...itics.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...times.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...hobia.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...ickey.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...nored.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...riefs.html
Click to expand...


Just Me,

These links are not working.

I was going to get around to posting those eventually. They really need to be posted to the OKC board too - for posterity sake.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
Just me said:
ABG do not know if you were going to repost these or not but here are links to the first 8 by Dr Braveheart.

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...users.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...-bawl.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...itics.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...times.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/fightin...hobia.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...ickey.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...nored.html

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/oklahom...riefs.html
Click to expand...


Just Me,

These links are not working.

I was going to get around to posting those eventually. They really need to be posted to the OKC board too - for posterity sake.
Click to expand...

I am not a computer geek on these link things.  I went back and corrected them but if you were to post them here with text also that would be great.  I did not have success when I tried.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
Cracked pot #3: JAV has a way with animals


JAV has a way with animals


Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-14-02 7:55am

As many know, JAV loves to fish and hunt. He got heavy into quail hunting and decided to buy himself a bird dog. He did and he named his new dog "Pete". Pete was trained to be the quintessential bird dog at a cost of $1,200. and now they were ready for the quail hunt.

Pete put his nose down and the hunt was on. Back and forth Pete went through the fields. The dog was just beautiful to watch. Suddenly Pete was on the trail of some quail and the chase was on and on and on. After some investigation it was determined that Pete was chasing field mice, not quail. JAV just passed it off because he surmised that the mice and the quail had been hanging around together so the scent was on the mice. It was an honest mistake besides $1,200 had been paid out to train Pete, the mice chasing dog.

After Pete was turned loose again he took off, licidy split. He was gone. As only JAV could yell he cried "Woe, Pete, Woe!" Pete obviously hadn't been trained on the word woe. He was nearly in another county before he circled back and began to woe. When JAV got a hold of Pete he wished he had wooed! JAV was hot. He pounded on the dog and in a near frenzy he yelled, "When I say woe, I mean woe!" For emphasis he pounded woe into the skull of Pete!

Something had be done with Pete, he needed to be slowed down. JAV decided that Pete could be calmed down if you hooked to him 10 lbs logging chains. If one chain would work two chains would be even better. So with 20 lbs of chain in tow, Pete started off with his nose to the ground going through the fields hunting quail. After a while you could tell that it really slowed down Pete. In fact it stopped Pete completely. One of the WHBC staff members who was along on the hunt got the job of caring poor Pete. I guess that Pete was petered out!

Do you wonder what happened to Pete? One day in order to save sometime JAV decided that he would just put Pate in the back of the SUV. After some hours of hunting they decided to get something to eat. They left Pete in the SUV with the windows up tight. The poor dog overheated and died. He went to the bird hunt in the sky. JAV really has a way with animals! And you think I'm the cracked pot!
Click to expand...

Ok now I would have shot JV, no questions asked
 
More Jim Vineyard stories, please!
 
16KJV11 said:
More Jim Vineyard stories, please!
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked.

I was teaching college for Jim when I was called into his office to get yelled at. I had to listen a while to figure out what he was angry about this time. It seems that another professor, who had been one of Vineyard's Gangsters, had run off his mouth in class, ripping into the students who had opposed them. Hearing this, my wife decided to run off her mouth about it. Hearing this, a student decided to run off her mouth about it to Jim. Hearing that three people were running their mouths off, Jim decided to get into the act. That's why I was getting yelled at.

Jim's lies were loud, fast, and furious, and then he blew it. He demanded that I admit that the story of his gangsters beating up a security guard weren't true. (Actually, they had beaten up two security guards). I had talked to the security guard personally (he was a Godly fellow), and I couldn't do that. Jim then said that if I didn't admit the story was false, I was fired. I was pretty upset, because God was blessing me with a successful ministry there, but that's how it goes. I was almost to the door when Jim yelled for me to sit back down, hollered a while longer, and dropped the matter.
 
Vince Massi said:
16KJV11 said:
More Jim Vineyard stories, please!
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked.

I was teaching college for Jim when I was called into his office to get yelled at. I had to listen a while to figure out what he was angry about this time. It seems that another professor, who had been one of Vineyard's Gangsters, had run off his mouth in class, ripping into the students who had opposed them. Hearing this, my wife decided to run off her mouth about it. Hearing this, a student decided to run off her mouth about it to Jim. Hearing that three people were running their mouths off, Jim decided to get into the act. That's why I was getting yelled at.

Jim's lies were loud, fast, and furious, and then he blew it. He demanded that I admit that the story of his gangsters beating up a security guard weren't true. (Actually, they had beaten up two security guards). I had talked to the security guard personally (he was a Godly fellow), and I couldn't do that. Jim then said that if I didn't admit the story was false, I was fired. I was pretty upset, because God was blessing me with a successful ministry there, but that's how it goes. I was almost to the door when Jim yelled for me to sit back down, hollered a while longer, and dropped the matter.
Click to expand...

So not only did you go to work for JV (who you knew to be an evil person), but you also worked with one of his "gangsters" with whom you had issues before leaving HAC.  You say that it was God's will because you had "results", yet you now come to the FFF with these stories.  You are confusing me.
 
RAIDER said:
Vince Massi said:
16KJV11 said:
More Jim Vineyard stories, please!
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked.

I was teaching college for Jim when I was called into his office to get yelled at. I had to listen a while to figure out what he was angry about this time. It seems that another professor, who had been one of Vineyard's Gangsters, had run off his mouth in class, ripping into the students who had opposed them. Hearing this, my wife decided to run off her mouth about it. Hearing this, a student decided to run off her mouth about it to Jim. Hearing that three people were running their mouths off, Jim decided to get into the act. That's why I was getting yelled at.

Jim's lies were loud, fast, and furious, and then he blew it. He demanded that I admit that the story of his gangsters beating up a security guard weren't true. (Actually, they had beaten up two security guards). I had talked to the security guard personally (he was a Godly fellow), and I couldn't do that. Jim then said that if I didn't admit the story was false, I was fired. I was pretty upset, because God was blessing me with a successful ministry there, but that's how it goes. I was almost to the door when Jim yelled for me to sit back down, hollered a while longer, and dropped the matter.
Click to expand...

So not only did you go to work for JV (who you knew to be an evil person), but you also worked with one of his "gangsters" with whom you had issues before leaving HAC.  You say that it was God's will because you had "results", yet you now come to the FFF with these stories.  You are confusing me.
Click to expand...

Are you sure your confusion isn't because you partook of a bad batch of binaca? :D
 
My friend Raider writes "So not only did you go to work for JV (who you knew to be an evil person), but you also worked with one of his "gangsters" with whom you had issues before leaving HAC.  You say that it was God's will because you had "results", yet you now come to the FFF with these stories.  You are confusing me."

Man, I can see why you're confused. I do not know Jim to be an evil person and never said that I did. He was a bald-faced liar at HAC, along with some of his other faults. I had no issue with the gangster before leaving HAC; we got along well at OBC. I knew it was God's will for me to work for Jim because He told me to AND because I got results. I am telling these stories for a reason that I have not yet explained.

Raider, you've done a lot of good that you might not understand. Over the many years, a lot of devastated HAC grads have come to the different FFFs and learned that they are not alone--there are many Godly saints who reject HAC's sins, and they are not evil for rejecting those sins as well. Then they move on, as God works in other áreas of their lives.

Despite the good you've done (and it's quite a lot) you do not understand the importance of loving one another and forgiving wrongs done to us by the saints.
 
I am having a hard time understanding what is going on here.

You say that JV had a gang of violent students who he would have beat up on certain people. You make us believe that he was nothing but an evil gang leader. Yet, you keep telling us how God speaks directly to you and He TOLD you to go work for him etc. (yellow flag)

JV is pretty rough around the edges. Bossy and kind of a blowhard but I don't believe for a second that he orchestrated a gang of hac thugs to beat people up.

When the college first opened, Was it just a bunch of pussies going there? (excuse my language) I am trying to think of some of the guys I went to school with and I can tell you that if this kind of thing took place it would have been stopped like right now! They would have taken it upon themselves or the administration for sure would have had to do something.

You started out being amusing but the story is getting more bizarre every day. And please don't tell us how loving and forgiving you are and how wonderfully God was blessing your ministry. I have heard enough of that junk over the years to want to  barf. If you would not stand up for other students being abused by a gang of thugs I really don't want to hear about your loving compassion and forgiveness.
 
I am telling these stories for a reason that I have not yet explained.

Mr. Massi, perhaps it's time that you explain...
 
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