Jim Vineyard

Vince Massi said:
You grew up in Jim's church; I did not. You were a child and I was an adult. You couldn't leave, and I could. God did not deal with us the same way.
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This just validates the point I and many others have tried to make.

You, unlike me, were an adult. You could easily make a choice as to what you were going to do. Yet you chose to go work for a man that you knew was the cause of alot of problems at a previous location. It doesn't make sense that you would feel it was ok to go work for someone knowing what you knew and being in a place that you can chose not to.

 
Man, I'm glad I started writing on this forum.

I went to work for Jim in Oklahoma because God clearly told me to. Period.

The results when I was there verified that I was in God's will.

Some of you seem surprised that God would take care of me in Oklahoma. At HAC, Jim tried hard to get me expelled. But they ran him off and kept me. God always provides the strength, grace, courage, etc., that we need to do His will. He didn't send me to Oklahoma and abandon me.

God blessed me as a teacher in Jim's high school, college, and Sunday School. He blessed me in having souls saved and baptized. My knowledge of the Scriptures grew as I prepared my lessons, and that knowledge still serves me. Under the pressure and abuse, I grew stronger because God gave me grace.

You need to realice that the Lord does not deal with all of His servants the same way. God dealt with me in a specific way that was tailored to my needs. He'll do the same to you, but He might not do it the same way He did it for me.
 
Where are Cracked Pot and Dr. Braveheart?

A blast from the past:

Dr. Braveheart #1: What to do with False Accusers


I'd like to introduce you to a caricature of any given ifbx pastor I created named Dr. Braveheart. He was specifically patented after another Dr. from OKC which shall go nameless. After all, I would hate to incriminate Jim Vineyard with this creation. Enjoy:


Many of you know that I travel a great deal during the week, preaching hundreds of sermons at various locations. Because of my vast exposure, I receive many questions from pastors seeking guidance all across the country.

For example, this past week I received a letter from a pastor that said: “Dr. Braveheart, a lady in our church visited with me in my office recently, and claimed that one of my staff members had sexually assaulted her. As a man of God, what do I do?”

Worried,

Brother Nervous

My response to him was as follows: Brother Nervous, don’t worry, Satan attacks the church like this all the time. A few years ago we had a couple in our church named the False Accusers. One day I was sitting in my office studying the book of Revelations in both Greek and Hebrew when Brother False Accuser walked in and asked if we could ‘talk’. I could tell immediately that something was bothering him, as he wore a long face.

I tried putting him at ease with a joke. “Brother False Accuser, a rabbi and a priest walked into a bar one day, and the bartender looked at them both and asked, ‘What is this, a joke?’” When he did not crack a smile, I knew it had to be something serious.

“Brother, what is the matter?” I asked.

He apprehensively began, “Sir, I—I think that my wife has been sleeping with Brother Fornicator,” he confided with great heartache.

Once he had made this accusation, I told him not to say another word. I picked up my phone, paged Brother Fornicator at his desk, and told him to come into my office immediately. When he arrived, I asked Brother False Accuser to relay to him exactly what he had just told me.

False Accuser shifted uneasily in his chair across from my desk at the recommendation, apparently fearful of the confrontation between himself and Brother Fornicator. Nevertheless, he said, “This might sound crazy, but I found this letter in my wife’s night stand the other night,” he explained while producing a crumpled note from the pocket of his khakis. “It reads, ‘I had a great time with you the other day, it just keeps getting better and better with you Pamela. Love, David F.’” As he finished reading the note, False Accuser’s face turned a reddish tint, and he diverted his eyes straight into Brother Fornicator’s.

The growing tension had to be broken, so I stepped in. “Brother Fornicator, did you write this note?”

“Absolutely not,” he replied quickly.

“All right. That’ll do. Go along and get back to work now,” I motioned him away.

False Accuser held an incredulous look on his face, seeming rather confused by the quick exchange. I began to counsel him with the Divine ability the Lord has so graciously blessed me with.

“Now, Brother, I completely understand what you’re thinking right now. The natural explanation would be to suspect Brother Fornicator of sleeping with your wife. But I’m afraid that is just not the case here. You see, Brother Fornicator is one of the best soul winners this church has ever known. Just this past week he personally led 5 people down the aisle to get saved. He gives a rather sizable amount of his paycheck every month to missions also. The man reads his Bible all the way through 3 times a year. He prays for two hours every morning before leaving for work. Here is where the rubber meets the road. Are you still with me?”

He nodded.

“If Brother Fornicator were guilty of what you have suspected, then there is no way that God would be blessing him as he has,” I stated.

He kept nodding, as he allowed the logical explanation to take root in his mind.

I continued. “What it appears to me that has happened was your wife forged a fake letter for you to find. Maybe she feels you’re not paying enough attention to her, or maybe she’s just trying to slander another brother in Christ. I’ve seen this happen all the time. Women often come forward while a church is flourishing and accuse ministers of adultery. My personal philosophy on the subject is that whenever a church is on fire for the Lord, Satan will bring forward liars to tear it down. It is one of his oldest tricks.

Let me ask you a few questions about your wife, Brother. These may not be easy to answer, but try your best. Maybe together we can pinpoint where she has gotten off the path to righteousness.”

“Okay.”

“Has your wife been praying every day like she should?”

“She prays every morning and every night, sir.”

“Has she been reading her King James Bible every day as she should?”

“Yes sir, 7 chapters a day.”

“Has she been knocking doors seeking new converts as she should?”

“Umm.. well, truthfully, she has not been soulwinning the past couple of weeks,” he conveyed while slightly lowering his head in shame.

“There you go. She’s not been doing everything God has commanded her to do, and in doing so she has allowed the devil to come into her mind and plant wild slander in her head, all in an effort just to get your attention. Go home, love on her, pet her. Then put your foot down and let her know that you’re not going to tolerate her writing inflammatory things about men of God! Okay?”

Brother Accuser got the message loud and clear. “Yes sir, this makes so much more sense now. Thank you!” he gushed.

That’s all it took to defuse such a potentially explosive situation, Brother Nervous. I hope your question has been answered sufficiently.
 
Man, I'm glad I started writing on this forum.

I went to work for Jim in Oklahoma because God clearly told me to. Period.

The results when I was there verified that I was in God's will.

Some of you seem surprised that God would take care of me in Oklahoma. At HAC, Jim tried hard to get me expelled. But they ran him off and kept me. God always provides the strength, grace, courage, etc., that we need to do His will. He didn't send me to Oklahoma and abandon me.

God blessed me as a teacher in Jim's high school, college, and Sunday School. He blessed me in having souls saved and baptized. My knowledge of the Scriptures grew as I prepared my lessons, and that knowledge still serves me. Under the pressure and abuse, I grew stronger because God gave me grace.

You need to realice that the Lord does not deal with all of His servants the same way. God dealt with me in a specific way that was tailored to my needs. He'll do the same to you, but He might not do it the same way He did it for me.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
Where are Cracked Pot and Dr. Braveheart?

A blast from the past:

Dr. Braveheart #1: What to do with False Accusers


I'd like to introduce you to a caricature of any given ifbx pastor I created named Dr. Braveheart. He was specifically patented after another Dr. from OKC which shall go nameless. After all, I would hate to incriminate Jim Vineyard with this creation. Enjoy:


Many of you know that I travel a great deal during the week, preaching hundreds of sermons at various locations. Because of my vast exposure, I receive many questions from pastors seeking guidance all across the country.

For example, this past week I received a letter from a pastor that said: “Dr. Braveheart, a lady in our church visited with me in my office recently, and claimed that one of my staff members had sexually assaulted her. As a man of God, what do I do?”

Worried,

Brother Nervous

My response to him was as follows: Brother Nervous, don’t worry, Satan attacks the church like this all the time. A few years ago we had a couple in our church named the False Accusers. One day I was sitting in my office studying the book of Revelations in both Greek and Hebrew when Brother False Accuser walked in and asked if we could ‘talk’. I could tell immediately that something was bothering him, as he wore a long face.

I tried putting him at ease with a joke. “Brother False Accuser, a rabbi and a priest walked into a bar one day, and the bartender looked at them both and asked, ‘What is this, a joke?’” When he did not crack a smile, I knew it had to be something serious.

“Brother, what is the matter?” I asked.

He apprehensively began, “Sir, I—I think that my wife has been sleeping with Brother Fornicator,” he confided with great heartache.

Once he had made this accusation, I told him not to say another word. I picked up my phone, paged Brother Fornicator at his desk, and told him to come into my office immediately. When he arrived, I asked Brother False Accuser to relay to him exactly what he had just told me.

False Accuser shifted uneasily in his chair across from my desk at the recommendation, apparently fearful of the confrontation between himself and Brother Fornicator. Nevertheless, he said, “This might sound crazy, but I found this letter in my wife’s night stand the other night,” he explained while producing a crumpled note from the pocket of his khakis. “It reads, ‘I had a great time with you the other day, it just keeps getting better and better with you Pamela. Love, David F.’” As he finished reading the note, False Accuser’s face turned a reddish tint, and he diverted his eyes straight into Brother Fornicator’s.

The growing tension had to be broken, so I stepped in. “Brother Fornicator, did you write this note?”

“Absolutely not,” he replied quickly.

“All right. That’ll do. Go along and get back to work now,” I motioned him away.

False Accuser held an incredulous look on his face, seeming rather confused by the quick exchange. I began to counsel him with the Divine ability the Lord has so graciously blessed me with.

“Now, Brother, I completely understand what you’re thinking right now. The natural explanation would be to suspect Brother Fornicator of sleeping with your wife. But I’m afraid that is just not the case here. You see, Brother Fornicator is one of the best soul winners this church has ever known. Just this past week he personally led 5 people down the aisle to get saved. He gives a rather sizable amount of his paycheck every month to missions also. The man reads his Bible all the way through 3 times a year. He prays for two hours every morning before leaving for work. Here is where the rubber meets the road. Are you still with me?”

He nodded.

“If Brother Fornicator were guilty of what you have suspected, then there is no way that God would be blessing him as he has,” I stated.

He kept nodding, as he allowed the logical explanation to take root in his mind.

I continued. “What it appears to me that has happened was your wife forged a fake letter for you to find. Maybe she feels you’re not paying enough attention to her, or maybe she’s just trying to slander another brother in Christ. I’ve seen this happen all the time. Women often come forward while a church is flourishing and accuse ministers of adultery. My personal philosophy on the subject is that whenever a church is on fire for the Lord, Satan will bring forward liars to tear it down. It is one of his oldest tricks.

Let me ask you a few questions about your wife, Brother. These may not be easy to answer, but try your best. Maybe together we can pinpoint where she has gotten off the path to righteousness.”

“Okay.”

“Has your wife been praying every day like she should?”

“She prays every morning and every night, sir.”

“Has she been reading her King James Bible every day as she should?”

“Yes sir, 7 chapters a day.”

“Has she been knocking doors seeking new converts as she should?”

“Umm.. well, truthfully, she has not been soulwinning the past couple of weeks,” he conveyed while slightly lowering his head in shame.

“There you go. She’s not been doing everything God has commanded her to do, and in doing so she has allowed the devil to come into her mind and plant wild slander in her head, all in an effort just to get your attention. Go home, love on her, pet her. Then put your foot down and let her know that you’re not going to tolerate her writing inflammatory things about men of God! Okay?”

Brother Accuser got the message loud and clear. “Yes sir, this makes so much more sense now. Thank you!” he gushed.

That’s all it took to defuse such a potentially explosive situation, Brother Nervous. I hope your question has been answered sufficiently.
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Keep them coming ABG!!!
 
Got to tell you Vince, I am beginning to think you are a couple of french fries short of a Happy Meal. :-\  :-\
 
Just me said:
Got to tell you Vince, I am beginning to think you are a couple of french fries short of a Happy Meal. :-\  :-\
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Got to tell you, JustMe. You don't understand forgiveness or the blessing of God.
 
Vince Massi said:
Just me said:
Got to tell you Vince, I am beginning to think you are a couple of french fries short of a Happy Meal. :-\  :-\
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Got to tell you, JustMe. You don't understand forgiveness or the blessing of God.
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Possible, but I do understand Vineyard trained, duck and cover, ignore the facts and never address the issue type behavior. 
 
True enough. Some of us would obey the Biblical command to go to him when we were offended. He would misquote "Great peace have they which love thy law, and nothing shall offend them." However, the Greek word refers to someone who has aggrieved you, while the Hebrew word refers to stumbling. More than once, one of us would try to reason with Jim....
 
Why did Vineyard want you expelled?  I believe DT was expelled around that time.
 
Babar said:
Why did Vineyard want you expelled?  I believe DT was expelled around that time.
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Because I took a strong stand against the gang violence.
 
Babar said:
What a fine institution HAC was and is.  (Sarcasm intended.)
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Babar, they had us promise to help them cover up the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters, but they did not erase the slanders Jim put on the records of the students who opposed them.
 
Vince Massi said:
Babar said:
What a fine institution HAC was and is.  (Sarcasm intended.)
Click to expand...

Babar, they had us promise to help them cover up the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters, but they did not erase the slanders Jim put on the records of the students who opposed them.
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How did they ever come up with that sick plan.  Whoever is the kindest and most honest, loses his good name.

The life lessons we learned....totally against scripture.  No wonder you still think about it.
 
Babar said:
Vince Massi said:
Babar said:
What a fine institution HAC was and is.  (Sarcasm intended.)
Click to expand...

Babar, they had us promise to help them cover up the sins of Vineyard's Gangsters, but they did not erase the slanders Jim put on the records of the students who opposed them.
Click to expand...

No wonder you still think about it.
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Obsessed is more like it.  Move on.
 
Thank you for your kind words, Babar. God took care of me, and I merely shrugged it off at the time.
 
The Cracked Pot series was originally posted at ye olde FFF

Cracked pot #15: The Cracked pot wonders....


The Cracked pot wonders

Posted by Cracked pot on Feb-22-03 5:21pm

I wonder sometimes if everyone is honest as they try to portray themselves? Jerry spoke about how the money was handled at WHBC by the good doctor JAV. Being a deacon at WHBC was a joke because they were told repeatedly that JAV was not accountable to them and that he could do pretty much whatever he wanted to do with the finances and he did. Even though JAV was not fiducially responsible for the church as were the deacons, he spent money and cut deals any way he wanted too.

A classic example would be the three motor homes bought by the church for the missions work. The funny thing was that JAV drove one, Tom Vineyard drove one and so did Paul Vineyard. Does sound fishy to anyone else. Might that be a case of nepotism or personal inurement? I wonder what the personal tax returns looked like or what was claimed? I'll bet there was nothing claimed and that the IRS never knew anything about it. Pretty typical fare for an IFB church run by one man.

Years ago when the property behind the doctors office was bought to build the new gym and school, I wonder how many members at WHBC knew what the details of that deal was? I wonder if they knew that there was a tax receipt given for a heavy contribution every year to the doctor even though there was never any money changing hands. A churches tax exempt status is a valuable thing to lose if someone starts giving fictitious contributions. I wonder if the church treasurer wrote that receipt or if it was JAV. I wonder if WHBC has a treasurer or if they are appointed by JAV?

What really is strange is that the people still give, JAV still spends and that he is totally unaccountable to anyone, including the deacons. I wonder if anyone else at WHBC is ever concerned that all of this buried in the funds from the school, the college and the church?

Maybe I'm not a cracked pot. I haven't given any money there for years.




JAV has a way with words

Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-12-02 9:58am

JAV has a way with words! He is known around the country with his earthy use of his words. If you are a lady I want to really consider not reading the rest of this post.

On one acassion JAV spoke to a men's meeting in a large church in Alaska. He cut to the chase and said to an all male audience, "Well men the real question here on your mind, is how can a man satisfy his wife?" He then, in graphic detail let them know how to do exactly that! He then bragged that his personal best was 29 times in one night that he satisfying his wife.

I will leave out some of the sordid details. I will say that the men at the meeting didn't know quite what to say. They had never been to a men's fellowship quite like that one. The preacher didn't quite know what to say either, that wasn't exactly the topic he thought Vineyard would preach on at a men's fellowship.

Besides the talk being inappropriate does anyone really believe 29 times in one night? That is bragging to the point of insanity. He and the mrs's were in their 50's at the time. I find that hard to believe ever.

Am I the cracked pot? You that defend him have quite a bit of work ahead of you. That is one tiny story of 100's if not 1,000's.






Cracked pot #16: JAV 29


JAV 29

Posted by Cracked pot on Apr-12-03 8:03pm

Recently I spent sometime with some mutual friends and the JAV 29 story came up (no pun intended). I was reminded of an airline pilot that was there in the men's meeting in Alaska. He was there and heard the while story and the personal best of 29 big ones in one night.

He said and I quote "That Vineyard fellow is quite the liar. A woman having 29 orgasms in one night. Who is he trying to fool"? He later on remarked if his wife knew he was telling that story?

I doubt that Mrs. JAV knew that he was telling that story because if he she did...that would be the last big one for her. I'm sure that big Jim couldn't get to first base with even one of his wonderful tea dates. You talk about mad as a wet hen. She would be so mad that she wouldn't walk over heaven with Him. You know what that means if you have endured that song sung by Joann to JAV 29.

Cracked pot

To all you who deny the story, JAV said it. Make the phone call or no...It's true.
 
Cracked pot #12: JAV has a real way of mentoring young men


JAV has a real way of mentoring young men

Posted by Cracked pot on Nov-27-02 11:00am

JAV has a thing for grabbing, punching, pinching and farting! Few have even touched the hem of his garment when it comes to these manly expressions. Sooner or later, when he feels comfortable around you, one of these manly activities will surface. It seems that in order to prove your manhood or mettle you will have to endure one of the above. Hopefully you will be able to pass the JAV litmus test of manliness. You have better not flinch or show any weakness or else you will never graduate from JAV's school.

One day several of the staff members were in the coffee room enjoying a cup of joe. You need to remember that these are grown men who were in their late 20's or early 30's. Indiana Jim and his temple of doom (thanks Bradlee) needed a quick shot of caffeine and went to get him a cup. It was just the four of them, JAV, Elliot, Big Mac and Mel Brindley.

JAV walked in and stated matter of fact, "I'm going to beat the crap out all three of you." He flipped off the lights and the another lesson of the JAV school of manliness commenced. In the darkness there where the screams of grown man as pinching, biting, pulling hair and other unmentionable things happen. It was in a room with no windows so it was a s dark as midnight.

You couldn't tell who was friend or foe. After awhile it was assumed that everyone was a foe. If it was a body you had to assume it was JAV. There was punches thrown. Kicks wildly connected to whoever. You could hear screams, groans and a few curse words and then there was a knock at the door.

The fighting stopped, the light was turned on and the door was opened just a crack. JAV opened the door and on the other side was a salesman dressed in a suit and tie. JAV looked a sight. His hair was standing on end. He had taken his false teeth out in order to fight. His tie was turned around his neck. His shirt tale was out. His shirt pocket was ripped off the front of his white shirt. JAV answered, "can I help you?" The man said, "Yes I'm looking for Rev. Jim Vineyard?' JAV replied, "next door down the hall."

The door was closed, the lights were flipped off and round two started. This was a lesson in Christian manhood taught by JAV-29, better known as Indiana Jim and the Temple of Doom. IT was joy to be on staff ay WHBC you learned so many manly things. And you think I'm a cracked pot. You know that JAV has a real way of mentoring young man!
 
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