Jack Schapp books

Didn't take too long for me to decide to pitch everything with his name on it. Someone suggested give the books away to people "in need, " those who don't know him. My answer was, "then have them look him up on the internet??????? Whatever good he did and wrote can be replaced. as has been mentioned, he had a very balanced approach on the KJV issue - too bad on any good that could have done.
 
[quote author=Baptist City Holdout]...he had a very balanced approach on the KJV issue.[/quote]

The only balanced approach to the KJV issue is stating that it shouldn't be an issue.  8)
 
Baptist City Holdout said:
Didn't take too long for me to decide to pitch everything with his name on it. Someone suggested give the books away to people "in need, " those who don't know him. My answer was, "then have them look him up on the internet??????? Whatever good he did and wrote can be replaced. as has been mentioned, he had a very balanced approach on the KJV issue - too bad on any good that could have done.
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He learned his approach sitting in Joe Combs class...

Anishinaabe

 
prophet said:
RAIDER said:
I agree totally.  I think it is a terrible injustice to forget about the good that a man did because of the bad that we now know.  I have not been a fan of Schaap's for several years.  I wanted the ministry to succeed when he took the pastorate.  My issues started when he started the "goofy" preaching and teaching.  His doctrine began to get stranger and stranger.  On the other hand, he has been a blessing to many people for many years.  He did much good in his complete ministry.
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The RCC feeds the hungry.  I dont keep their books.

Anishinaabe
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I'm not talking about keeping or not keeping his books.  I'm talking about people that totally write off everything someone has done for their complete life because of recent sin.  Like it or not, there was a time that Schaap made a positive difference in the life of many people.

You compare Schaap to the Roman Catholic Church.  Though his recent sin may draw some simalarities, it's a pretty poor comparison.
 
RAIDER said:
prophet said:
RAIDER said:
I agree totally.  I think it is a terrible injustice to forget about the good that a man did because of the bad that we now know.  I have not been a fan of Schaap's for several years.  I wanted the ministry to succeed when he took the pastorate.  My issues started when he started the "goofy" preaching and teaching.  His doctrine began to get stranger and stranger.  On the other hand, he has been a blessing to many people for many years.  He did much good in his complete ministry.
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The RCC feeds the hungry.  I dont keep their books.

Anishinaabe
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I'm not talking about keeping or not keeping his books.  I'm talking about people that totally write off everything someone has done for their complete life because of recent sin.  Like it or not, there was a time that Schaap made a positive difference in the life of many people.

You compare Schaap to the Roman Catholic Church.  Though his recent sin may draw some simalarities, it's a pretty poor comparison.
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The RCC does more good works than any other organization.
They are good citizens.  They get involved in politics, they have hundreds of charitable organizations.
They are wrong on doctrine.
They are wrong on church polity.
They mean well, but send people to Hell.
Dr. Jack Schaap wasn't a great Christian who fell, he was a false Christian who finally gave up the charade.

Again, I will remind you, that I have seen and heard much more of him,than you have.

I post this with all sincerity, I believe what I'm saying, and am not just stirring the pot.



Anishinaabe

 
RAIDER said:
prophet said:
RAIDER said:
I agree totally.  I think it is a terrible injustice to forget about the good that a man did because of the bad that we now know.  I have not been a fan of Schaap's for several years.  I wanted the ministry to succeed when he took the pastorate.  My issues started when he started the "goofy" preaching and teaching.  His doctrine began to get stranger and stranger.  On the other hand, he has been a blessing to many people for many years.  He did much good in his complete ministry.
Click to expand...
The RCC feeds the hungry.  I dont keep their books.

Anishinaabe
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about keeping or not keeping his books.  I'm talking about people that totally write off everything someone has done for their complete life because of recent sin.  Like it or not, there was a time that Schaap made a positive difference in the life of many people.
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Let's ask this of the members of Miller Road about Davey-boy's books or the teens & families who's lives were destroyed in the youth ministry at FBCH. Old Hackers can still remember all his over emphasis on "purity" in his preaching....& writing.

Let's ask this of the bummed out hero-followers of JS at FBCH.

I went to HAC at the same time as JS. His marriage into the Jackie-boy family gave him position & platform for writing books as JH taught him to do each year to promote during PS. I never 1 time bought one of his books....& why would I? He was taught by the same crew of teachers & the same preacher as I was, so why because he became the top dog at FBCH/HAC would I go out of my way to to clutter up my library with his thoughts.

We have a book we call the Bible. The Wonderful author has never varied or changed nor ever will for eternity. It's the words of the Word that are true, trustworthy & righteous altogether.

Besides, one does not suddenly fall of a cliff & plunge into sin. Most of the time there is a slow gradual leaning & (justification) toward that which goes is opposite of the teachings of Scripture.

I have talked with friends of mine who are old HACkers who tell of JS's words, eye-balling, language & attitude about the women at the school when he was a HAC staff member. Pale-face spoke out of both sides of mouth, even way back then.
 
I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.
 
North said:
I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.
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He told a 16 year old church member, whose family trusted her to his care, for counsel, that "God must really think you're special, to send you to minister(have sex) to me like He sent angels to Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane".

Lest anyone forget.

You don't respect that, you stone it to death, if you really wanna be old-fashioned.

Anishinaabe

 
North said:
I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this at all!
 
BALAAM said:
North said:
I know it sounds ironic, but his book, "Marriage the divine intimacy" is the one we decided to keep. I think that is the one that may have controversy over some thing but the overall content of the book is worth keeping to pass on to our children.

Not to change the subject, but I was appalled by the way FBC turned on their "beloved" pastor publicly. They went out of their way to publicly and internally smear him when they did not have to.

There is a proper way to treat fallen leaders that is proper and respectable without condoning the sin or lacking compassion for the victim. This has been a historic practice for leaders of all types. Why? It started out of superstition. Kings and leaders of civilized societies would not dare violently insult or abuse an enemy of his same position when the opportunity arrived for fear of karma.

FBC took the road of pragmatism and expediency instead of civility and respectability.
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I don't understand this at all!
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in the same boat with you, Balaam!
 
Obviously, north belongs to the sweep-it-under-the-rug-for-the-sake-of-the-ministry club ....
 
For those who don't understand my last post let me simplify it in layman's terms:

FBC exalted their pastor Schaap one day and the next day they mercilessly erased every evidence of his existence from the church, ran out his family, shattered the lives of many who were not even involved in the scandal, hired a lawyer who did more harm than help, ran off the victim and compounded her hurt as well as her family's, and topped it off by creating a restrictive church constitution that encapsulated their whole philosophy which is, the church is like a business and when it comes to keeping the church profitable and in existence they will steamroll anyone in the way. All this to save the name of the church in the WORLD'S eye. Was it worth it FBC? I shudder to think about the Bema seat of Christ and the lost rewards and shame of those involved.

This was not civil, proper and respectable of them. It was disgusting.

Yes, Mr. Schaap did wrong. He was truly repentant from what I understand. And he is paying for it now and will have to face God with shame at the Bema seat.

But the church at FBC just wipes their mouths saying, "What have we done?"
 
North said:
For those who don't understand my last post let me simplify it in layman's terms:

FBC exalted their pastor Schaap one day and the next day they mercilessly erased every evidence of his existence from the church, ran out his family, shattered the lives of many who were not even involved in the scandal, hired a lawyer who did more harm than help, ran off the victim and compounded her hurt as well as her family's, and topped it off by creating a restrictive church constitution that encapsulated their whole philosophy which is, the church is like a business and when it comes to keeping the church profitable and in existence they will steamroll anyone in the way. All this to save the name of the church in the WORLD'S eye. Was it worth it FBC? I shudder to think about the Bema seat of Christ and the lost rewards and shame of those involved.

This was not civil, proper and respectable of them. It was disgusting.

Yes, Mr. Schaap did wrong. He was truly repentant from what I understand. And he is paying for it now and will have to face God with shame at the Bema seat.

But the church at FBC just wipes their mouths saying, "What have we done?"
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Wow, you are on top of things.  You have the whole scoop.
Wonder how those poor Schaap family members are doing, that were run off.
Especially his son, out there on his own, trying to start a church, with no support.
And his his poor daughter and s.i.l., bet they will never work in the ministry again, I mean, who would hire them, after FBCH ran em off?

Anishinaabe

 
North said:
For those who don't understand my last post let me simplify it in layman's terms:

FBC exalted their pastor Schaap one day and the next day they mercilessly erased every evidence of his existence from the church, ran out his family, shattered the lives of many who were not even involved in the scandal, hired a lawyer who did more harm than help, ran off the victim and compounded her hurt as well as her family's, and topped it off by creating a restrictive church constitution that encapsulated their whole philosophy which is, the church is like a business and when it comes to keeping the church profitable and in existence they will steamroll anyone in the way. All this to save the name of the church in the WORLD'S eye. Was it worth it FBC? I shudder to think about the Bema seat of Christ and the lost rewards and shame of those involved.

This was not civil, proper and respectable of them. It was disgusting.

Yes, Mr. Schaap did wrong. He was truly repentant from what I understand. And he is paying for it now and will have to face God with shame at the Bema seat.

But the church at FBC just wipes their mouths saying, "What have we done?"
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One thing you don't know but maybe should be clarified for you. FBC "The Church" didn't do this,... FBC "The Management" did this. The people had no say in this except for the Constitution vote which required people to put their names to their votes. Whether intentional or not, I believe some people were afraid to vote no when their name was attached. Some just left.
 
North said:
For those who don't understand my last post let me simplify it in layman's terms:

FBC exalted their pastor Schaap one day and the next day they mercilessly erased every evidence of his existence from the church, ran out his family, shattered the lives of many who were not even involved in the scandal, hired a lawyer who did more harm than help, ran off the victim and compounded her hurt as well as her family's, and topped it off by creating a restrictive church constitution that encapsulated their whole philosophy which is, the church is like a business and when it comes to keeping the church profitable and in existence they will steamroll anyone in the way. All this to save the name of the church in the WORLD'S eye. Was it worth it FBC? I shudder to think about the Bema seat of Christ and the lost rewards and shame of those involved.

This was not civil, proper and respectable of them. It was disgusting.

Yes, Mr. Schaap did wrong. He was truly repentant from what I understand. And he is paying for it now and will have to face God with shame at the Bema seat.

But the church at FBC just wipes their mouths saying, "What have we done?"
Click to expand...

Wow! You are proving to be typical of people who form opinions while looking from a disadvantaged position and then criticizing other people who form opinions for disadvantaged positions. Jack Schaap was the cause of his downfall! If he was elevated in people's minds it is because they had been taught that for 40 years from a man named Hyles. I am sure there are people there who would still have him as pastor if he wasn't in jail.
 
This is the first time I have ever heard Jack Schaap described as truly repentant.

As to the original question, Hitler was very effective in elevating the lives of people in a country that had been devastated by war and a ruined economy. Should we selectively honor his early years and thoughts even though it didn't exactly end well?

Just to stir the pot further, why would anyone keep Jack Hyles books?
 
Norefund said:
This is the first time I have ever heard Jack Schaap described as truly repentant.

As to the original question, Hitler was very effective in elevating the lives of people in a country that had been devastated by war and a ruined economy. Should we selectively honor his early years and thoughts even though it didn't exactly end well?

Just to stir the pot further, why would anyone keep Jack Hyles books?
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Ok, I'll bite on this one and surely reap a firestorm:
He was never found guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he actually committed adultery.
However, the books on child/teen rearing must be taken with a giant grain of salt/pepper and various other spices.
 
How about his books on how to build a Sunday School or church?

And, is your standard that one must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on the creation of a man worshipping church culture? Because, if so, I think we all know that he is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

How about his unleashing his perverted son on an unsuspecting church congregation? Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Ignoring reports of child molestation and allowing known pedophiles to hold positions in the church and schools? Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I didn't mention his adultery in my post. My personal opinion is that there is plenty of evidence to support the accusation. There are many reasons not to emulate and heap adoration on Jack Hyles aside from the adultery aspect.

My point is that the original question posed in this thread should also apply to Jack Hyles given all that is known.

Do any of you still keep any of Joe Combs books? OK, now I am just piling on.
 
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