iConference 2013

[BALAAM]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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Prophet, which one are you?

I think I got it figured out.

One thing we know...he's not Cherokee. After all they are known for torturing their families and then abandoning them, but then...Prophet isn't racist. /sarcasm

I hope you do not think me a racist for not voting for Obama. (well actually, I don't care)

 

[prophet]

also in prophets defense....  if i may .... saying that most, or even all, native americans in general have a natural tendency towards alcoholism.. (if they ever start drinking at all).. is not racism.. .it;s a scientific fact... with scientific reasoning behind it... . it;s genetic... .. most people of asian ancestry can;t tolerate dairy products for the same basic reasons.... ancient asian culture was not one which herded cattle and therefore they never drank milk...  as a result they never developed the genes and enzymes required to process cows milk in the human body... ancient northern europeans were prolific cattle herders.. and consumed milk daily ....  as a result they not only developed that necessary enzyme but also passed it down to their descendants through genetics... .. ..  the native american culture did not experience consumption of alcohol until european contact.... whereas europeans had a genetically built in level of tolerance to alcohol, from multiple successive generations being exposed to it and passing it down to their descendants....  native americans did not... .. for them, their first exposure to alcohol had the same effect as first exposure to crack cocaine has on people in our generation... .. .. they became addicts almost instantly... .

now... . that might sound like racism to some people but it;s not....  it;s science... .  i was very little but i vividly remember my navajo grandmother telling my mother she shouldn;t drink because indians can;t handle liquor......  did that make my grandmother racist?..... no.... it made her a concerned mother trying to save her daughter from alcoholism.....  sadly it didn;t work... although it;s not what she died of my mother was a pathetic drunk.... also a drug addict.... it;s a known fact that chronic substance abuse has had a more devastating effect on some ethnic cultures than it has had on others... .  pointing that out isn;t racism....  refusing to help them, if it;s in your power, or just writing them off, simply because they are of a different ethnic culture would be.. ..  i don;t think prophet is doing that... ..  at least not from what i can tell.....  ......  just saying...  :-

You are dealing in reality, sister.  Some prefer fantasy.

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[4everfsu]

....................  I thank God for using broken pieces and am grateful for His mercy, love and grace that allows me to continue to have a relationship with Him.

people here have called me demon possessed before.. .... among many other things .... .... but i like to think that i;m one of those broken pieces God is able to use.. .  i have been the beneficiary of His mercy throughout my life .. continually... ...  and am grateful for His mercy more than i can express... . ...  . i have also been the beneficiary of modern psychology and modern medicine which are things i believe God gave to mankind to use for His glory.. ...  i don;t known jack schaap... and i;m certainly not trying to defend him..  . if he really is guilty of the things he is charged with then i think he should go to jail for the rest of his life...  . but i have read things here that indicate many people saw signs of depression in him and even mental illness.. ... and just like they did with me, many people are calling what they saw in him evidence of demon possession.... . could it be that the tendency within fundamentalism to label people with mental illness as demon possessed caused jack schaap, and maybe even jack hyles, to avoid seeking professional medical help for depression at a time when it might have helped them both?.... . ...

I knew an IFBX pastor in Tampa who said women did not need medicine for depression, they just needed to stop watching soap operas and gossiping. Actual truth.

 

[rsc2a]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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Prophet, which one are you?

I think I got it figured out.

One thing we know...he's not Cherokee. After all they are known for torturing their families and then abandoning them, but then...Prophet isn't racist. /sarcasm

Say what you want, you won't change the drunken, abusive Native.  Only Christ will.  My Grandfather tried to kill my grandmother with a hammer, then he left, and lived in a chicken coop for 10 years.  My dad was 7, when he left. My  Dad led him to the Lord when I was young, and he had moved into a house, and he seemed normal, though he was very ill, and he died shortly after.
Our humanist society has taught you that noticing Native Cherokee are typically abusive drunks, is racism.  So you repeat their garbage, like the Devil's little parrot.
Making someone sit at the back of a bus, drink from a different fountain, because of their race,  is racist. 
Saying that ALL African music is Satanic, is racist.
Observing that Negros have different hair than Euros, isnt racist.
Observing that some of  my ancestors used music, to worship evil spirits, isn't racist. 
Saying that All Native music is Satanic, is racist.
Separating from music  offered unto idols, for the sake of sacred worship of Almighty  Jehovah God, and our LORD Jesus Christ in the setting of His ordained assemblies, isn't racist.
Seeing someone else take a stand, that God asks of all of His disciples, elicits a response.  Some are reproved, some rebuked, some exhorted.  When your response is  reflexively defensive...you may have been discovered.  When you lash-out and gnash with your teeth, your double mindedness may have been exposed. 


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And when you stereotype Cherokees as abusive and quick to abandon their families,  you are a racist.

 

[rsc2a]

[size=12pt]also in prophets defense....  if i may .... saying that most, or even all, native americans in general have a natural tendency towards alcoholism.. (if they ever start drinking at all).. is not racism.. .it;s a scientific fact... with scientific reasoning behind it... . it;s genetic..

Saying Native Americans are genetically predisposed towards alcohol addiction is fine. It's also not the same thing as saying they, as a group, are quick to turn up a bottle and/or beat their families before abandoning them. (I'll also point out that they aren't any more genetically predisposed towards beating their families than any other group is.)

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=BALAAM]I hope you do not think me a racist for not voting for Obama. (well actually, I don't care)[/quote]

It would depend on why you didn't vote for him. If you didn't vote for him (or if you did) solely based on the color of his skin, then I would say that racism is what was the motivating factor behind your decision. (One can also have racist motives without being a racist.)

 

[graceandtruth]

it;s a known fact that chronic substance abuse has had a more devastating effect on some ethnic cultures than it has had on others... .  pointing that out isn;t racism....  refusing to help them, if it;s in your power, or just writing them off, simply because they are of a different ethnic culture would be.. ..  i don;t think prophet is doing that... ..  at least not from what i can tell.....  ......  just saying...  :-\

This is worth repeating!

 

[prophet]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
Sent from my N860 using Tapatalk 2

Prophet, which one are you?

I think I got it figured out.

One thing we know...he's not Cherokee. After all they are known for torturing their families and then abandoning them, but then...Prophet isn't racist. /sarcasm

Say what you want, you won't change the drunken, abusive Native.  Only Christ will.  My Grandfather tried to kill my grandmother with a hammer, then he left, and lived in a chicken coop for 10 years.  My dad was 7, when he left. My  Dad led him to the Lord when I was young, and he had moved into a house, and he seemed normal, though he was very ill, and he died shortly after.
Our humanist society has taught you that noticing Native Cherokee are typically abusive drunks, is racism.  So you repeat their garbage, like the Devil's little parrot.
Making someone sit at the back of a bus, drink from a different fountain, because of their race,  is racist. 
Saying that ALL African music is Satanic, is racist.
Observing that Negros have different hair than Euros, isnt racist.
Observing that some of  my ancestors used music, to worship evil spirits, isn't racist. 
Saying that All Native music is Satanic, is racist.
Separating from music  offered unto idols, for the sake of sacred worship of Almighty  Jehovah God, and our LORD Jesus Christ in the setting of His ordained assemblies, isn't racist.
Seeing someone else take a stand, that God asks of all of His disciples, elicits a response.  Some are reproved, some rebuked, some exhorted.  When your response is  reflexively defensive...you may have been discovered.  When you lash-out and gnash with your teeth, your double mindedness may have been exposed. 


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And when you stereotype Cherokees as abusive and quick to abandon their families,  you are a racist.

Had I said 'all Cherokee are ---'  I still wouldn't be a racist, because I am Cherokee...but if you think that these things aren't rampant among us, you are wrong.
  The thing that changed my family is, my Dad was born again, when I was in the womb.  Although he struggled with these things, he overcame them through Christ.
  When the Cherokee were marched out on the trail of tears, it broke their will. Like Slavery broke the will of the American Negro. 
  Of course, individuals have risen above this, and every member of this semi-free society has opportunity to rise up.  I shouldn't have to say that every time race issues are brought up. 
  When you grow up, come to the adults table, and we will discuss how to help people repent of their false gods, and believe on Jesus Christ.  Until then, sit at the kids table,  and call us Uncle Tom...you sell out.

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[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]Had I said 'all Cherokee are ---'  I still wouldn't be a racist, because I am Cherokee...[/quote]

This statement alone shows why you are fundamentally wrong.

 

[qwerty]

So you are saying Youth Conference is put on by the college and merely hosted by the church...is the college not a  part of the church? Is it separate? Curious about that distinction...

I was hoping that BroServant7 would respond, I was a bit interested in that statement as well....

I can tell you that the expenses of Youth Conference are paid by the church. Every Purchase Order, Check, and bit of Petty Cash is paid out by FBCH (Inc.).  The beneficiary is the College, HAC (Inc. which is owned and operated by FBCH (Inc.)) since it is a great recruitment tool. 

The college really does not have the finances, especially in the summer, to host and pay for YC, it is not really a money-maker, but without it, I think the college would be adversely affected.

I hope that one of the things that Wilkerson does, is get things back to the local church level.  FBCH has several little corporations under it.  I am sure that there is some legal or tax reason, but it is so odd to have a church that has a mission board (incorporated), a rescue mission (incorporated), a rehab facility (incorporated), radio ministry (incorporated), and security (incorporated)...plus more, I just can't think of them.

Added: Another interesting note, was that Schaap basically moved all the business offices out to the Church.  There is maybe an employee or two at the schools to assist with the collection of tuition, but operational expenses are all done at FBCH.  If an employee needs a PO, or credit card for purchase, they have to request it from the church, then the employee has to drive out to FBCH or wait for in in the interoffice mail system. 

 

[Sherryh]

qwerty, I've ran a business office for over 10 years ......everything I've learned is hands on..........I love Quick books but I learned that hands on ............It's sad no one stood up and said we can't run an office like that.............I've always been gun shy of (yes people) every girl that has ever worked for us has been able to think outside the box...............

I can't imagine driving to Hammond if you need something............... ???

 

[BALAAM]

qwerty, I've ran a business office for over 10 years ......everything I've learned is hands on..........I love Quick books but I learned that hands on ............It's sad no one stood up and said we can't run an office like that.............I've always been gun shy of (yes people) every girl that has ever worked for us has been able to think outside the box...............

I can't imagine driving to Hammond if you need something............... ???

Especially from South Florida!

 

[Sherryh]

Balaam, toooooooo funny. I watch tooooooo much American Greed!!

 

[myeyesareopen]

kids are bullied so badly they commit suicide and then the cool kids make fun of it on a youtube vid

BinacaChugger, I was only vaguely aware of this. Your comment prompted me to investigate and at this house we have been weeping all afternoon for the boy. His blood is crying from the ground and his tormenter still struts around the church. The mom of the deceased boy apparently begged the pastor and principal for help with the bullying and was told to relax, it was only normal, and she was making a sissy of the boy. To this day the family has not been consoled, counselled, or comforted. God have pity on us. Someone needs to tell the new pastor and it might need to be me.

 

[kaba]

kids are bullied so badly they commit suicide and then the cool kids make fun of it on a youtube vid

BinacaChugger, I was only vaguely aware of this. Your comment prompted me to investigate and at this house we have been weeping all afternoon for the boy. His blood is crying from the ground and his tormenter still struts around the church. The mom of the deceased boy apparently begged the pastor and principal for help with the bullying and was told to relax, it was only normal, and she was making a sissy of the boy. To this day the family has not been consoled, counselled, or comforted. God have pity on us. Someone needs to tell the new pastor and it might need to be me.

Someone needs to be held accountable!!

 

[prophet]

kids are bullied so badly they commit suicide and then the cool kids make fun of it on a youtube vid

BinacaChugger, I was only vaguely aware of this. Your comment prompted me to investigate and at this house we have been weeping all afternoon for the boy. His blood is crying from the ground and his tormenter still struts around the church. The mom of the deceased boy apparently begged the pastor and principal for help with the bullying and was told to relax, it was only normal, and she was making a sissy of the boy. To this day the family has not been consoled, counselled, or comforted. God have pity on us. Someone needs to tell the new pastor and it might need to be me.

If God has given you the burden...meet the need.  Take up the cause of the down -trodden.
His blood does cry out from the ground!
  God bless you for caring, and speed you on your way, Samaritan.
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[Binaca Chugger]

kids are bullied so badly they commit suicide and then the cool kids make fun of it on a youtube vid

BinacaChugger, I was only vaguely aware of this. Your comment prompted me to investigate and at this house we have been weeping all afternoon for the boy. His blood is crying from the ground and his tormenter still struts around the church. The mom of the deceased boy apparently begged the pastor and principal for help with the bullying and was told to relax, it was only normal, and she was making a sissy of the boy. To this day the family has not been consoled, counselled, or comforted. God have pity on us. Someone needs to tell the new pastor and it might need to be me.

Good luck.  It's old news now.  My guess is that a new pastor would hear such a complaint, patronize, then investigate.  He will ask the ministry leaders who will give him the same run-around they gave the press and the families and the church at the time.  He will then in a caring, concerned way get back with you and fill you in on the party line - not his fault, he doesn't know any better.  This is part of why many have hoped that much of the leadership would resign.  Of course, that would leave a beast without any head instead of a bad head (Feel like USA trying to figure out what to do with Castro?)  You are talking about changing a culture that has been in existence for quite some time.  Some former leaders of those ministries tried changing the culture.  The system/culture morphed around the changes and the situations continue.

Personally, I felt bad for all the families who moved to Hammond, sacrificed and worked, so their kids could go to school in such a Utopian environment.  Little did they know.......

 

[prophet]

kids are bullied so badly they commit suicide and then the cool kids make fun of it on a youtube vid

BinacaChugger, I was only vaguely aware of this. Your comment prompted me to investigate and at this house we have been weeping all afternoon for the boy. His blood is crying from the ground and his tormenter still struts around the church. The mom of the deceased boy apparently begged the pastor and principal for help with the bullying and was told to relax, it was only normal, and she was making a sissy of the boy. To this day the family has not been consoled, counselled, or comforted. God have pity on us. Someone needs to tell the new pastor and it might need to be me.

Good luck.  It's old news now.  My guess is that a new pastor would hear such a complaint, patronize, then investigate.  He will ask the ministry leaders who will give him the same run-around they gave the press and the families and the church at the time.  He will then in a caring, concerned way get back with you and fill you in on the party line - not his fault, he doesn't know any better.  This is part of why many have hoped that much of the leadership would resign.  Of course, that would leave a beast without any head instead of a bad head (Feel like USA trying to figure out what to do with Castro?)  You are talking about changing a culture that has been in existence for quite some time.  Some former leaders of those ministries tried changing the culture.  The system/culture morphed around the changes and the situations continue.

Personally, I felt bad for all the families who moved to Hammond, sacrificed and worked, so their kids could go to school in such a Utopian environment.  Little did they know.......

I would hope that a 'pastor' would undertake to restore that family.  The church had no pastor, for years.  A true shepherd would seek healing for the individual sheep.  That is what 'my eyes are open' was getting to, I hope.  The culture will change there, when the average person has a pastor.

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[myeyesareopen]

My guess is that a new pastor would hear such a complaint, patronize, then investigate.  He will ask the ministry leaders who will give him the same run-around they gave the press and the families and the church at the time.  He will then in a caring, concerned way get back with you and fill you in on the party line - not his fault, he doesn't know any better.

BinacaChugger, I fear you are right but I have a slight ray of hope that things might be different. JW did and said at least two things yesterday that showed a real backbone. I won't specify on this forum, but they were small yet significant.

Can you tell me, is the YouTube video made by the bully a rumor...or a known certainty? I am drafting a letter and since I know none of this first-hand, I will mention it but if proves to be a rumor rather than a reality I will leave that part out.

 

[Just John]

I'm still trying to picture Jack Schapp as a "neo-evangelical"...or even "evangelical" much less "hip", "modern" or "cool". 

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


And as bad as some of the music is sung there I wouldn't go so far as to call it "evil".