iConference 2013

[BroServant7]

Actually, they reversed the decision for youth conference. Kind of glad, since my last memory of last year's conference was shaking Schaap's hand and spending some time chatting with him and Cindy that Wednesday evening.... Weird to think back on it.

...funny that you say this, I remember everything about that final evening of YC. I just remember thinking it VERY strange that JS would sit out the final sermon and let someone else take the platform. ...but as they say, the rest is history.

Very true

 

[myeyesareopen]

So you are saying Youth Conference is put on by the college and merely hosted by the church...is the college not a  part of the church? Is it separate? Curious about that distinction...

 

[prophet]

Actually, they reversed the decision for youth conference. Kind of glad, since my last memory of last year's conference was shaking Schaap's hand and spending some time chatting with him and Cindy that Wednesday evening.... Weird to think back on it.

I know what you mean.  That Thursday was the last time he spoke publicly.  I can still remember that worker's session vividly.  He spoke on making sure the teens know the pastor's vision.  He was supposed to close the conference that night but instead had Bro Baldwin preach.  When I found out a couple weeks later what had been happening I just remember the sermon Bro Baldwin preached that afternoon, "Where's Phineas?"  I'm glad for the boldness of a certain staff member to not hide what he found.  I miss bro Schaap, I'm very sorry that we as a church allowed what he did to go unnoticed as long as it did and I'm sorry that we didn't do something more to prevent it from happening.  I love him, always will, and will always appreciate the preaching he gave on faith, grace, loving the Bible, etc.  I'm glad we have a new pastor though, hopefully we'll take better care of him than we did of Schaap so that he doesn't fall into the trap of making excuses for something outlandishly immoral.

Schaap was absolutely spoiled rotten and treated like a king by fbch, hac, and it's followers.
He was a pervert when he was in the  'girls gone wild' ministry (Purdue lafayette), and he was a pervert when he stalked married women in counseling sessions, and he's still a pervert now, in jail.  And you are blind, hypnotized by the rhythms of Charismatic music, led by the spirits that jack s. brought in, to replace the Holy Spirit of God.
But you don't get it, because you (and fbch) wanted to move more 'mainstream' and be the 'cool kids', and become hip, and modern, and evolve.  So you still think that Jack S. was a victim....
Why don't you hear the testimony of the hundreds of people who know that Jack S is a habitual liar, who has pyschotic episodes (demonic possession is a possible reason) , multiple personality symptoms, depression, and doubts if there is even a God?  He has testified many times to the last 2.
Sorry for the rant, but I walked away 6 years ago, because I saw all of this, and some of you still don't,  even though he's a convicted pervert locked away from society, because he can't be trusted around teen girls...DUH!

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[Sherryh]

prophet, back in 1984 when Bro Schapp preached for us and lied in our faces.............I never trusted him again!! The affects of sin are far , long and deep!!Your post is right on my friend!!

 

[prophet]

2 things.  # 1, I've never been a fundamentalist.  Shocked some people at HAC, when I explained that.  I'm a New Testament local church disciple of Jesus Christ.  Baptist is an accusation I humbly accept.  Fundamentalism is movement started by Satan, to lure the Separatist Christians into a relationship with the children of the Great Whore.
I've heard Jack Hyles lie.  His children are a testimony to his Christianity.  In his defense...he was effeminate, but he could blame that on his father, who tortured the family, and abandoned them (typical of the Cherokee of that area). 
Jack Hyles worshipped leadership, not God.  He loved God, as best he knew how, IMO, but his relationship with his earthly father left him a terrible emotional cripple.
He evoked sympathy for himself, painted a slanted truth, exploded violently, all symptoms of an abuse victim.
  I did not leave anything, except FBCH, and I didn't leave because of Jack S., I left because they invited the evil spirits into the public worship.
All I can do is speak what I have seen and heard.

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[Matthew1323]

I'm glad we have a new pastor though, hopefully we'll take better care of him than we did of Schaap so that he doesn't fall into the trap of making excuses for something outlandishly immoral.

You will never have joy or peace in life if you go through life blaming yourself for every foolish and sinful decision that others around you choose to make.

"Take better care of him?" I disagree. He desired and was given freedom to devise and do anything that his heart desired with few, if any, checks and balances. It is my opinion that we all need to be accountable to someone.

 

[Fresh Air]

  Fundamentalism is movement started by Satan, to lure the Separatist Christians into a relationship with the children of the Great Whore.

Okay. I can't let that one go by. What in the world is your rationale for this?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

ummmm.......

Didn't the new pastor say in his question and answer before being voted in that he had no desire to pastor the nation, or pastor pastors and that the primary concern would be to just care for the church and the people of the church?

So....... Apparently the people of the church need to be active thinking they have the answer for the world in order to grow themselves from the tragedy that has befallen them?

Actually, the church hosts the conference but it's put on by Hyles-Anderson college, and it doesn't serve as an opportunity to pastor anyone, it is an opportunity to influence young people for Christ and to invite them to come to HAC when they graduate from High School.  it accomplishes a lot more than that, but it's the one conference that no one ever said would be cancelled.  We are not in a position to hold a pastor's conference, that's not our business.  As a church with a Bible college though it would be foolish not to have a youth conference.  What I don't understand is why you would be so upset about there being a youth conference?  Are you against youth conferences?  help me understand that.

I am all for preaching to teens - though the focus of these are often on "DO" rather than "BE."  I get what you are saying about the college hosting and promoting the college.  My point was simply that the new pastor stated his position and desire before becoming pastor, but is not allowed to see that desire realized.  From the decision to have it to who will preach at it, the church is not doing what he said he wanted to do.  Several possibilities: Everything was already planned and he said "fine," or, the cronies are doing their regular thing with or without the new pastor, or, he really didn't mean what he said.  My guess is the first one.  I just find it very interesting.  I was hoping for the sake of my family and friends there that several key leaders would resign and allow the new pastor to choose the direction of the church, rather than putting him up to speak while they continue running things.

I miss bro Schaap, I'm very sorry that we as a church allowed what he did to go unnoticed as long as it did and I'm sorry that we didn't do something more to prevent it from happening.  I love him, always will, and will always appreciate the preaching he gave on faith, grace, loving the Bible, etc.  I'm glad we have a new pastor though, hopefully we'll take better care of him than we did of Schaap so that he doesn't fall into the trap of making excuses for something outlandishly immoral.

I understand your hurt for your former pastor.  For many, including laymen, this has been a horrendous ordeal.  The church did have systems in place to prevent such actions, that is how he was discovered.  You cannot prevent someone from choosing sin.  No matter what system you put in place, it is a personal decision and no system can prevent it. 

I hope by "taking better care" you are not referring to money or time off, but rather to the willingness of someone to say: "That's wrong."

Actually, they reversed the decision for youth conference. Kind of glad, since my last memory of last year's conference was shaking Schaap's hand and spending some time chatting with him and Cindy that Wednesday evening.... Weird to think back on it.

Don't know what inside connection you have, but it is still listed on their website.

He was a pervert when he was in the  'girls gone wild' ministry (Purdue lafayette), and he was a pervert when he stalked married women in counseling sessions, and he's still a pervert now, in jail.  And you are blind, hypnotized by the rhythms of Charismatic music, led by the spirits that jack s. brought in, to replace the Holy Spirit of God.
But you don't get it, because you (and fbch) wanted to move more 'mainstream' and be the 'cool kids', and become hip, and modern, and evolve.  So you still think that Jack S. was a victim....
Why don't you hear the testimony of the hundreds of people who know that Jack S is a habitual liar, who has pyschotic episodes (demonic possession is a possible reason) , multiple personality symptoms, depression, and doubts if there is even a God?  He has testified many times to the last 2.
Sorry for the rant, but I walked away 6 years ago, because I saw all of this, and some of you still don't,  even though he's a convicted pervert locked away from society, because he can't be trusted around teen girls...DUH!

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Bro. Schaap testified in his sermon "The Day God forgot to be God" that he battled a depression that questioned the existence of God.  It sounded an awful lot like demonic oppression.  He also testified of how he overcame those dark days by using Psalms and believing that God is and developing a real, personal relationship with Christ.  There is a difference between oppression and possession.  To use that testimony to accuse him of being a in relationship with familiar spirits and giving them access to the church sounds like the claim of bitterness seeking to lay accusation.  Believing that one person can infect thousands with demons sounds more like Hollywood than reality.  Demons influencing the decisions of Christians were just as prevalent when we were in high school as they are now.  I don't think it is fair to accuse him of everything wrong at the church, or to believe he was simply a possessed man secretly seeking to destroy the church.  By his testimony, he was struggling with the depression (oppression) again.  He failed in this struggle.  I often recall a sermon Bro. Hyles preached "Some on Broken Pieces" and "Just Lot."  I thank God for using broken pieces and am grateful for His mercy, love and grace that allows me to continue to have a relationship with Him.

 

[qwerty]

Don't know what inside connection you have, but it is still listed on their website.

Sorry about that, I was referring to the canceling of all the smaller conferences and having a single mega conference. That originally included Youth Conference.  They then reversed their decision and said that they would continue on with Youth Conference on a yearly basis.

It would have been a disaster for the college since Youth Conference is a big event and boost for the college. Not a ton of folks enroll then, but many seal their decision at Youth Conference and the evening events at the college. They also receive a lot of  information on potential students from the registrants of the conference.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]And you are blind, hypnotized by the rhythms of Charismatic music, led by the spirits that jack s. brought in, to replace the Holy Spirit of God.[/quote]

What in the world does this even mean?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]Fundamentalism is movement started by Satan, to lure the Separatist Christians into a relationship with the children of the Great Whore.[/quote]

I'll second the idea that this is crazy talk.

[quote author=prophet]I've heard Jack Hyles lie.  His children are a testimony to his Christianity.  In his defense...he was effeminate...[/quote]

And this means what exactly?

[quote author=prophet]...but he could blame that on his father, who tortured the family, and abandoned them (typical of the Cherokee of that area). [/quote]

See you still like to throw out racist statements.

[quote author=prophet]...I left because they invited the evil spirits into the public worship. [/quote]

Were there invitations sent? A caterer hired? Black tie or was it more casual?

 

[lnf]

You make some excellent points, aleshanee.  There should be no shame in seeking help.  But so many are quick to "diagnose" and judge. 

My son and I walked quite the rocky road for some 18 months after he got into legal trouble.  Actually, I praise God that my son did get into trouble.  Because it forced me to open my eyes and to take action!  His crime was just a symptom of a much bigger problem.  During that time, we both received intensive counseling...and we are both much healed due to the experience.  God's fingerprints were all over the entire process, which concluded with my son receiving a judicial warning, which really means, "Go forth and sin no more!" 

During that time, even though I tried to always be open and honest, I spoke in generalities with most people.  I actually shared the "nitty gritties" with only a small, select group of true, trustworthy friends.  Why?  Because of the very judgment you and I both know is so very common.

Yes, yes, yes!  God gives all things for His glory, including professional interventions, whether they be from a doctor's skilled hand, a pharmacological discovery, a psychologist, a Christian counselor...or the long arm of the law.         

 

[BALAAM]

In defense of prophet: I believe he has some Indian blood in his veins if I remember correctly. He has also probably spent more time and money to minister to and help black folks than anyone else on this forum. He has also, himself, climbed out of some pretty steep valleys.

Don't always see things the way he does but he is definitely NOT racist.

I too have heard Jack Hyles lie. He has been dead for 12 years and even now I run across people who were at fbch in the seventies and eighties that will tell me they personally went to him about something Dave had tried to do and were chased from his office. I am still finding out and hearing things that I would have flat out disbelieved when I sat under jh.

JS is a whole different story. I would go so far as to say that there was an "evil" about him. I don't believe posessed but definitely some mental or psychological problems there. And BroServant; How are you going to take better care of someone like this? He set himself up as a vicar and had scads of people who would stand in line to lick his feet. Who are you going to tell that you see something wrong? Eddie? Ray Young? Moffit? Duff? I don't think so.

 

[rsc2a]

In defense of prophet: I believe he has some Indian blood in his veins if I remember correctly. He has also probably spent more time and money to minister to and help black folks than anyone else on this forum. He has also, himself, climbed out of some pretty steep valleys.

I have addressed this previously.

[quote author=BALAAM]Don't always see things the way he does but he is definitely NOT racist.[/quote]

Then he should stop making racist statements.

 

[prophet]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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[Sherryh]

I knew you had a wonderful family!!    That is a great pic!!!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

....................  I thank God for using broken pieces and am grateful for His mercy, love and grace that allows me to continue to have a relationship with Him.

people here have called me demon possessed before.. .... among many other things .... .... but i like to think that i;m one of those broken pieces God is able to use.. .  i have been the beneficiary of His mercy throughout my life .. continually... ...  and am grateful for His mercy more than i can express... . ...  . i have also been the beneficiary of modern psychology and modern medicine which are things i believe God gave to mankind to use for His glory.. ...  i don;t known jack schaap... and i;m certainly not trying to defend him..  . if he really is guilty of the things he is charged with then i think he should go to jail for the rest of his life...  . but i have read things here that indicate many people saw signs of depression in him and even mental illness.. ... and just like they did with me, many people are calling what they saw in him evidence of demon possession.... . could it be that the tendency within fundamentalism to label people with mental illness as demon possessed caused jack schaap, and maybe even jack hyles, to avoid seeking professional medical help for depression at a time when it might have helped them both?.... . ...

I said it sounded like demonic oppression, not possession.  There is a HUGE difference.  Personally, I respected him for sharing that testimony and how he found victory through consciously developing a personal relationship with Christ.  That took guts - opening and revealing so much of an inward struggle.  Not everyone would be willing to share with the world their deepest struggles.  People who have fought the same battle appreciated his honesty.  If you have never gone through it, or helped someone through it - don't claim to understand.

Yes, our movement could use a good dose of academia when it comes to counseling rather than just telling people to get active again (See my thread "Pastor vs Preacher").  There are churches that understand that all of us are sinful creatures who have been redeemed by a Holy God.  In these churches, the pastor is happy for people to understand their need for personal counsel and people are encouraged to find victory through faith that overcomes the world.

BTW - just because you were abused doesn't mean you must abuse.  Generational sins can be conquered.  You can have victory.  You don't have to do unto others as was done unto you.

Whew!  What a firestorm from the notion of a youth conference!  I think this thread got off topic.

 

[BALAAM]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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Prophet, which one are you? 

 

[rsc2a]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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Prophet, which one are you?

I think I got it figured out.

One thing we know...he's not Cherokee. After all they are known for torturing their families and then abandoning them, but then...Prophet isn't racist. /sarcasm

 

[prophet]

Me on Wed....but I'm a racist.

My 40th birthday was spent in Englewood, with my beloved family...Tell them I'm a racist...
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Prophet, which one are you?

I think I got it figured out.

One thing we know...he's not Cherokee. After all they are known for torturing their families and then abandoning them, but then...Prophet isn't racist. /sarcasm

Say what you want, you won't change the drunken, abusive Native.  Only Christ will.  My Grandfather tried to kill my grandmother with a hammer, then he left, and lived in a chicken coop for 10 years.  My dad was 7, when he left. My  Dad led him to the Lord when I was young, and he had moved into a house, and he seemed normal, though he was very ill, and he died shortly after.
Our humanist society has taught you that noticing Native Cherokee are typically abusive drunks, is racism.  So you repeat their garbage, like the Devil's little parrot.
Making someone sit at the back of a bus, drink from a different fountain, because of their race,  is racist. 
Saying that ALL African music is Satanic, is racist.
Observing that Negros have different hair than Euros, isnt racist.
Observing that some of  my ancestors used music, to worship evil spirits, isn't racist. 
Saying that All Native music is Satanic, is racist.
Separating from music  offered unto idols, for the sake of sacred worship of Almighty  Jehovah God, and our LORD Jesus Christ in the setting of His ordained assemblies, isn't racist.
Seeing someone else take a stand, that God asks of all of His disciples, elicits a response.  Some are reproved, some rebuked, some exhorted.  When your response is  reflexively defensive...you may have been discovered.  When you lash-out and gnash with your teeth, your double mindedness may have been exposed. 


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