How much do HAC/FBCH staff members really make?

[nightbusheretic14]

While at college, I heard several staff members making it sound like they don't make much money, yet they have huge families and can support their family. Others I notice they drive really nice cars and wear expensive looking suits and ties with their cuff link shirts. Sometimes I wonder if they make more than they make it sound like.

 

[qwerty]

My last W-2 show about $30K which I do not think includes $2400 for a housing allowance.  That is from about 10 years ago.

Nearly all the men worked a second job, had rentals, etc to help make ends meet....and some of the women did too.

 

[16KJV11]

In the 90s, Roger Casteel ran a paper route to supplement his income.

 

[Fresh Air]

How much do HAC/FBCH staff members really make?

...not enough.

 

[qwerty]

How much do HAC/FBCH staff members really make?

...not enough.

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

 

[Tennessean]

In 1992 I quit the HAC security dept. When I told him I was quitting an angry Mark Crockett told me staff members made $11,000 a year.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Mark is no longer at HAC.

He quit too.

Perhaps that is why he was so angry.

It seems to me that he had some other source of income too.

Maybe a cleaning service or security outfit?

 

[Fresh Air]

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

I'm not saying they didn't know what they were in for. I'm saying, broadly speaking, independent Baptists in all walks and ministries pay their absurdly low. I grew up in a pastor's home. I've been a pastor now for 18 years. I have hundreds of friends in the ministry. I've done hours worth of work comparing pay rates for comparable size ministries of other denominations, comparable experience levels, etc. It is a disgrace.

It isn't popular to say that. But its the truth.

<thinking to myself I need to blog about this>

 

[qwerty]

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

I'm not saying they didn't know what they were in for. I'm saying, broadly speaking, independent Baptists in all walks and ministries pay their absurdly low. I grew up in a pastor's home. I've been a pastor now for 18 years. I have hundreds of friends in the ministry. I've done hours worth of work comparing pay rates for comparable size ministries of other denominations, comparable experience levels, etc. It is a disgrace.

It isn't popular to say that. But its the truth.

<thinking to myself I need to blog about this>

Understood overall, but in particular to HAC why should they get paid more?  You mentioned in other threads about the lack of theology or good Bible teaching, which for a Bible college should be paramount; also about hiring their own causing a problem.  Personally seeing it as student and staff, seems like it was about equal to what the student was getting in knowledge. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

I'm not saying they didn't know what they were in for. I'm saying, broadly speaking, independent Baptists in all walks and ministries pay their absurdly low. I grew up in a pastor's home. I've been a pastor now for 18 years. I have hundreds of friends in the ministry. I've done hours worth of work comparing pay rates for comparable size ministries of other denominations, comparable experience levels, etc. It is a disgrace.

It isn't popular to say that. But its the truth.

<thinking to myself I need to blog about this>

Understood overall, but in particular to HAC why should they get paid more?  You mentioned in other threads about the lack of theology or good Bible teaching, which for a Bible college should be paramount; also about hiring their own causing a problem.  Personally seeing it as student and staff, seems like it was about equal to what the student was getting in knowledge.

Don't pay much don't get much.

 

[IFB X-Files]

George Godfrey told me that he and his wife each made 12K a year (they left in the late 80's).  Of course he preached and sold books and tapes to supplement.

 

[Tennessean]

Mark is no longer at HAC.

He quit too.

Perhaps that is why he was so angry.

It seems to me that he had some other source of income too.

Maybe a cleaning service or security outfit?

Mark Crockett, Rick Bartley, Dale Breed and Ray Highfill all worked for either another private security fim or one of he local police departments.

BTW, I find nothing wrong in working to supplement an income.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The problem is when people think they are in full time service for the LORD because they work at a religiously connected institution. 

Then, having to work at some other vocation to pay the bills which seems like secular work at that point. It should not, but this does breed (no pun intended) resentment.

As a Baptist (subscribing to the Baptist Distinctives) I believe all vocations are as service as unto the LORD.

There is no Man of God Religious Professional vrs. The Laymen model of ecclesiology in the NT. That is Rome.

All believers are Priests of God, and Men and Women of God. The high priest is Jesus not some Man of God on this earth, lording it over the others as is so common in IFB-dom.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:"


It would seem it might be better to work at the called secular job and then volunteer at the religious institution. Maybe that would be a problem because of a perceived lack of control on the part of the religious institution.

All work by a believer should be considered as full time service for the LORD.

Paul made tents. Was he in full-time service?

Ray is the only one of the four that is still at FBCH.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Tennessean]

The problem is when people think they are in full time service for the LORD because they work at a religiously connected institution. 

Then, having to work at some other vocation to pay the bills which seems like secular work at that point. It should not, but this does breed (no pun intended) resentment.

As a Baptist (subscribing to the Baptist Distinctives) I believe all vocations are as service as unto the LORD.

There is no Man of God Religious Professional vrs. The Laymen model of ecclesiology in the NT. That is Rome.

All believers are Priests of God, and Men and Women of God. The high priest is Jesus not some Man of God on this earth, lording it over the others as is so common in IFB-dom.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:"


It would seem it might be better to work at the called secular job and then volunteer at the religious institution. Maybe that would be a problem because of a perceived lack of control on the part of the religious institution.

All work by a believer should be considered as full time service for the LORD.

Paul made tents. Was he in full-time service?

Ray is the only one of the four that is still at FBCH.

This is just my opinion.

I thought Dale was there as well, teaching. When did he leave?

 

[bgwilkinson]

The problem is when people think they are in full time service for the LORD because they work at a religiously connected institution. 

Then, having to work at some other vocation to pay the bills which seems like secular work at that point. It should not, but this does breed (no pun intended) resentment.

As a Baptist (subscribing to the Baptist Distinctives) I believe all vocations are as service as unto the LORD.

There is no Man of God Religious Professional vrs. The Laymen model of ecclesiology in the NT. That is Rome.

All believers are Priests of God, and Men and Women of God. The high priest is Jesus not some Man of God on this earth, lording it over the others as is so common in IFB-dom.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:"


It would seem it might be better to work at the called secular job and then volunteer at the religious institution. Maybe that would be a problem because of a perceived lack of control on the part of the religious institution.

All work by a believer should be considered as full time service for the LORD.

Paul made tents. Was he in full-time service?

Ray is the only one of the four that is still at FBCH.

This is just my opinion.

I thought Dale was there as well, teaching. When did he leave?

I believe he left last summer. Don't remember where he went.
It was several months in planing and was known by many well in advance.

 

[qwerty]

The problem is when people think they are in full time service for the LORD because they work at a religiously connected institution. 

Then, having to work at some other vocation to pay the bills which seems like secular work at that point. It should not, but this does breed (no pun intended) resentment.

As a Baptist (subscribing to the Baptist Distinctives) I believe all vocations are as service as unto the LORD.

There is no Man of God Religious Professional vrs. The Laymen model of ecclesiology in the NT. That is Rome.

All believers are Priests of God, and Men and Women of God. The high priest is Jesus not some Man of God on this earth, lording it over the others as is so common in IFB-dom.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:"


It would seem it might be better to work at the called secular job and then volunteer at the religious institution. Maybe that would be a problem because of a perceived lack of control on the part of the religious institution.

All work by a believer should be considered as full time service for the LORD.

Paul made tents. Was he in full-time service?

Ray is the only one of the four that is still at FBCH.

This is just my opinion.

I thought Dale was there as well, teaching. When did he leave?

I believe he left last summer. Don't remember where he went.
It was several months in planing and was known by many well in advance.

Believe it was NJ or close by.

 

[Bruh]

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

I'm not saying they didn't know what they were in for. I'm saying, broadly speaking, independent Baptists in all walks and ministries pay their absurdly low. I grew up in a pastor's home. I've been a pastor now for 18 years. I have hundreds of friends in the ministry. I've done hours worth of work comparing pay rates for comparable size ministries of other denominations, comparable experience levels, etc. It is a disgrace.

It isn't popular to say that. But its the truth.

<thinking to myself I need to blog about this>

Tom, I completely understand what you are saying, I get it.

My only question/comment would be, are these salaries of pastors a reflection of how the pastor handles the churches finances?

It may be impossible to find out how the pastor's of IFB churches handle the finances.  Not saying that they would not be open but would be hard to do a survey. 

 

[Bravo]

I find that answer very interesting... Everyone that worked and stayed for any length of time knew what they were in for on payday.  Overall, I think pay of employees as about what one would expect when you think about what the student was receiving education wise.

Could you elaborate if possible?

I'm not saying they didn't know what they were in for. I'm saying, broadly speaking, independent Baptists in all walks and ministries pay their absurdly low. I grew up in a pastor's home. I've been a pastor now for 18 years. I have hundreds of friends in the ministry. I've done hours worth of work comparing pay rates for comparable size ministries of other denominations, comparable experience levels, etc. It is a disgrace.

It isn't popular to say that. But its the truth.

<thinking to myself I need to blog about this>

2 Corinthians 10:12 KJV
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

lol, too soon?

 

[cast.sheep]

Mark Crockett did not leave angry. He left two years before the JS situation to take an assistant pastor position in another ministry. The college gave him a small but thoughtful going away party.
He workred two and three jobs the entire time he was on staff at HAC in order to make ends meet.
I know him well. He's a good man.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

I never minded staff working extra jobs or whatever.  I just wish they would have been honest about it.  Examples?

Larry Smith telling us he gave his income from the college back to the college.  Fine.  But he failed to mention he was bringing in a lot of money through his construction company.

How about Pete Cowling always talking about his pay cut from UT to HAC?  Again, fine.  But didn't tell us about the rentals and trailer park.

...to name two.