How far would you go to protect one of your own?

[rsc2a]

I'll ask you once...what did I say about the difference in self-defense and protecting others? And, your posts are nothing but emotionalism. There isn't any form of reasoning as the basis for your thoughts, only fear.

[size=12pt]and i tried to explain it to you that the two often overlap and in most cases, like the one alayman is talking about, there is no difference between the two... . .. i further tried to explain to you that when an attack happens it will all be over with it by the time someone like you tries to figure out whether it fits your criteria for action and decides what to do next..... so your point you keep repeating over and over is invalid... . if you had any real life experience with any of this you would know that.... . .... the moment a potential threat becomes an active one all your hypothetical mumbo jumbo will go right out the window... ..... and from the looks of it.. you will probably go out right behind it... ...

There's no difference in hunting someone down to either threaten or beat the tar out of them and stopping someone who is an active threat?
 
[quote author=aleshanee]i;m not the one who is anonymous here.....  you are..... ...  people here know my name.. they know where i live.. and they even know my family.. .. so who is really living in fear?... [/quote]

:

 

[rsc2a]

There's no difference in hunting someone down to either threaten or beat the tar out of them and stopping someone who is an active threat?

you obviously haven;t been paying attention...  or else you totally ignored what was said in the op and went straight into your sanctimonious argument mode.... . in the case alayman told about everything short of hunting the person down and beating the tar out of him was done.. .. . and to no effect... . even the police were powerless to stop that person and in the end the girl he was stalking died.... ..  your answer to that after multiple pages of discussion was ......

dying for the Gospel might very well be dying at the hands of some creepy stalker....

Let's do this the easy way. Show me where Jesus said appropriate response when it comes to adversity, actually not even adversity but a potential adversity, is to hunt down the offending person and beat the tar out of them? I can show you at least a dozen places, probably closer to two, where He talks about the cost of following Him, a cost that includes not responding in kind when people actually commit violence against you.

Or you can keep giving the answer that the world would give...

[quote author=aleshanee][size=12pt]so who should really care whether or not you see a difference in self defense and protecting others?...[/quote]

Yes...because these are different, very different according to quite a few Christian traditions.

[quote author=aleshanee]...from all indications you wouldn;t be capable of doing either one...[/quote]

Ahh....now the personal attacks...

[quote author=aleshanee]...you;re trying to condemn people here for suggesting that the only thing left...[/quote]

Can you show me where I've condemned anyone?

[quote author=aleshanee] that might have actually worked to stop that individual..  should have been done... .. and then saying death at the hands of a stalker might have been the best thing here...  in the interest of serving the gospel...  .....

are you that far removed from reality that you can;t understand how sick and disgusting that is?...[/quote]

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

 

[rsc2a]

Let's do this the easy way. Show me where Jesus said appropriate response when it comes to adversity, actually not even adversity but a potential adversity, is to hunt down the offending person and beat the tar out of them? I can show you at least a dozen places, probably closer to two, where He talks about the cost of following Him, a cost that includes not responding in kind when people actually commit violence against you.

i don;t think you are capable of discussing anything the easy way.... . but whatever... . .

following Christ and taking adversity onto yourself for Him... is not the same thing as failing to defend your own child who God gave you the responsibility to protect.....  whether or not that childs action might be seen as serving God or not......  .. what?..  you, who insists on seeing differences in abstract concepts that reality blends together.. .. can;t see the difference in that one?......  . it is well within your right, as a christian, to voluntarily die for Christ... . it is not within your right to decide that another should, involuntarily, die for anyone... when you had the power to stop it... .....

Yes...I believe I specifically stated 10(?) times on these boards and 3(?) in this thread alone that there is a difference in self-defense and defending others. In fact, you quoted where I said that exact thing, so apparently, you're intent on ignoring my words so you can attack some alternative version that is only in your head.

(And, you didn't provide any verses to support your view? Would you like the dozen or so passages I can name off the top of my head which I base mine on?)

[quote author=aleshanee]

Or you can keep giving the answer that the world would give...

the world?..... most of the world agrees with you.. .. perpetrators should be given a chance...none should ever have to die for anything they did, or intend to do.. no matter how heinous... . . some in the world would even say a christian girl who gets hurt going to try and minister to reprobates got what she deserved..... i have heard people in the world say things like that..... of all the issues discussed on this forum the poster on this forum who holds views most similar to that of the world is you......  [/quote]

Most of the world thinks you should allow others to harm you without any type of retaliation? The philosophy of the world is "get you before you get me"...oddly enough, exactly what most of the posters on this thread are arguing.

[quote author=aleshanee]you really haven;t been paying attention ..... have you......[/quote]

Apparently not. That's why I'm ignoring what people repeatedly say so I can argue with the positions they've never held.

/sarcasm

[quote author=aleshanee]

Yes...because these are different, very different according to quite a few Christian traditions.

[size=12pt]but only when it serves your purposes to bring up differences like that .... . right ?..... your ignorance about how that concept in christian tradition plays out in the real world tells me it;s all academic to you and nothing else...... many extremists, both left and right, who have misinterpreted scripture and have no real world experience are like you..... it;s amazing how a dose of reality changes a person... ..  maybe you should come back to see us when you have had yours...... [/quote]

Actually, I bring them up whether or not I agree with them when the situation warrants. It's called being intellectually honest. And, I'm fully aware of exactly how it plays out in the real world. Would you like me to cite examples of how it plays out in the early church era, when people were actually being fed to lions and crucified for proclaiming Jesus or would you like to me cite examples where schools get shot up and the parents offer sympathy, forgiveness and prayer for the individual that murdered their children? That was just a few years ago. If you'd like instead, I can offer examples from the eighteen centuries between these events. Odd how that dose of reality didn't seem to change them.

[quote author=aleshanee]

Ahh....now the personal attacks...

let;s see.... who was it that said this about me?....

your posts are nothing but emotionalism. There isn't any form of reasoning as the basis for your thoughts, only fear.

what;s the matter?....  are you finding the horse pills you serve to others a little hard to swallow?..... [/quote]

Yes...I responded to what you said. See the difference?

[quote author=aleshanee]

Can you show me where I've condemned anyone?

one of your first posts to me accused me of having a small view of the gospel and of not understanding salvation... . that;s a condemnation in case you didn;t know.... implying i;m not even saved.... .  what you said about me concerning emotionalism, reasoning and fear, that i already quoted above.. is another condemnation... ....    there are many others to other posters all through this thread... i;m not going to humor you by wasting time looking them all up.... . [/quote]

- I said your argument was based on a small view of the gospel. I didn't say anything about you personally. That word choice was very deliberate on my part.

- If you think that would imply that you aren't saved, you really have no idea what what my views are about salvation...and that would be even if I had said anything about you personally rather than your argument.

- Yes...as I pointed out above, your reasoning is based on fear. Again...I'm talking about what you actually write. I could sum up the entire argument you made thusly: "But if you don't do something to the guy, bad things will happen." See...fear-based argument.

[quote author=aleshanee]

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

[size=12pt]i didn;t see it that way at all.. ..i thought it was an honest question seeking honest answers... ..  ..  but if you saw it differently then why didn;t you just ignore it?..... ..  why didn;t you just apply your own reasoning about how... as a christian ...you should absorb adversity.. (by not responding)...  letting it die with you... (by ignoring the thread)...  and ending the cycle?........ you chose to do what you saw as a pre-emptive action ...  and you got involved... [/quote]

Because I recognize the difference in a discussion board where various scenarios are discussed and real life?

[quote author=aleshanee]now here you are...  . violating the spirit of the very christian concept you claim to be so dedicated to that you would even allow a christian girl to die at the hands of a stalker for the sake of the gospel..... . yet you are violating it simply for the sake of argument and personal satisfaction... ......  .... do you feel better now?....  .. [/quote]

And again, you deliberately misrepresent my position. I grant it would be a whole lot easier to argue against that one. Why don't you engage the argument that I'm actually making though?

 

[Torrent v.3]

Let's do this the easy way. Show me where Jesus said appropriate response when it comes to adversity, actually not even adversity but a potential adversity, is to hunt down the offending person and beat the tar out of them? I can show you at least a dozen places, probably closer to two, where He talks about the cost of following Him, a cost that includes not responding in kind when people actually commit violence against you.

i don;t think you are capable of discussing anything the easy way.... . but whatever... . .
following Christ and taking adversity onto yourself for Him... is not the same thing as failing to defend your own child who God gave you the responsibility to protect.....  whether or not that childs action might be seen as serving God or not......  .. what?..  you, who insists on seeing differences in abstract concepts that reality blends together.. .. can;t see the difference in that one?......  . it is well within your right, as a christian, to voluntarily die for Christ... . it is not within your right to decide that another should, involuntarily, die for anyone... when you had the power to stop it... .....

Or you can keep giving the answer that the world would give...

the world?..... most of the world agrees with you.. .. perpetrators should be given a chance...none should ever have to die for anything they did, or intend to do.. no matter how heinous... . . some in the world would even say a christian girl who gets hurt going to try and minister to reprobates got what she deserved..... i have heard people in the world say things like that..... of all the issues discussed on this forum the poster on this forum who holds views most similar to that of the world is you...... 

you really haven;t been paying attention ..... have you......

Yes...because these are different, very different according to quite a few Christian traditions.

but only when it serves your purposes to bring up differences like that .... . right ?..... your ignorance about how that concept in christian tradition plays out in the real world tells me it;s all academic to you and nothing else...... many extremists, both left and right, who have misinterpreted scripture and have no real world experience are like you..... it;s amazing how a dose of reality changes a person... ..  maybe you should come back to see us when you have had yours......

Ahh....now the personal attacks...

let;s see.... who was it that said this about me?....

your posts are nothing but emotionalism. There isn't any form of reasoning as the basis for your thoughts, only fear.

what;s the matter?....  are you finding the horse pills you serve to others a little hard to swallow?.....

Can you show me where I've condemned anyone?

one of your first posts to me accused me of having a small view of the gospel and of not understanding salvation... . that;s a condemnation in case you didn;t know.... implying i;m not even saved.... .  what you said about me concerning emotionalism, reasoning and fear, that i already quoted above.. is another condemnation... ....    there are many others to other posters all through this thread... i;m not going to humor you by wasting time looking them all up.... .

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

i didn;t see it that way at all.. ..i thought it was an honest question seeking honest answers... ..  ..  but if you saw it differently then why didn;t you just ignore it?..... ..  why didn;t you just apply your own reasoning about how... as a christian ...you should absorb adversity.. (by not responding)...  letting it die with you... (by ignoring the thread)...  and ending the cycle?........ you chose to do what you saw as a pre-emptive action ...  and you got involved...

now here you are...  . violating the spirit of the very christian concept you claim to be so dedicated to that you would even allow a christian girl to die at the hands of a stalker for the sake of the gospel..... . yet you are violating it simply for the sake of argument and personal satisfaction... ......  .... do you feel better now?....  .. 

He is not capable of discussing. He and Alayman are two peas in a pod. He just likes to make people look foolish.  I tried discussing something with him on another forum and he insists on not directly answering, always trying to teach you something, not just discuss.  It makes him look condescending and arrogant. And even though sometimes I agree with his views, his methods ruin any discussion.  he needs to grow up.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Torrent v.3]He is not capable of discussing. He and Alayman are two peas in a pod. He just likes to make people look foolish. I tried discussing something with him on another forum and he insists on not directly answering, always trying to teach you something, not just discuss.  It makes him look condescending and arrogant. And even though sometimes I agree with his views, his methods ruin any discussion.  he needs to grow up.[/quote]

?? ??

 

[Torrent v.3]

[quote author=Torrent v.3]He is not capable of discussing. He and Alayman are two peas in a pod. He just likes to make people look foolish. I tried discussing something with him on another forum and he insists on not directly answering, always trying to teach you something, not just discuss.  It makes him look condescending and arrogant. And even though sometimes I agree with his views, his methods ruin any discussion.  he needs to grow up.

?? ??
[/quote]

Grow up. Stop trying to one up Alashanee.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Torrent v.3]He is not capable of discussing. He and Alayman are two peas in a pod. He just likes to make people look foolish. I tried discussing something with him on another forum and he insists on not directly answering, always trying to teach you something, not just discuss.  It makes him look condescending and arrogant. And even though sometimes I agree with his views, his methods ruin any discussion.  he needs to grow up.

?? ??

Grow up. Stop trying to one up Alashanee.[/quote]

Scratch that...I just went through all your posts on the other forum and you've never asked me anything.

 

[rsc2a]

And again, you deliberately misrepresent my position. I grant it would be a whole lot easier to argue against that one. Why don't you engage the argument that I'm actually making though?

failure to properly state a position on your part.....  does not equate deliberate misrepresentation on mine, or anyone elses part... . when we form an opinion of your position based on your horrendous presentation... ....  but i;m wondering if it;s really failure on your part at all and not something done intentionally..... ..  i;m begnning to think you might be doing the very same thing you accused alayman of doing..... ...  disingenuously making false and misleading arguments just for the sake of keeping an argument going and giving yourself the jollies... ... .. you are not worth wasting time on any more..... .. enjoy your mud pies..... 

Here's the first place I actually gave my opinion on the topic:

I see a significant difference in self-defense and the defense of others. I also see significant difference in intentionally lethal and non-lethal force. And, yet again, I see significant difference in addressing an active threat and pre-emptively engaging a potential threat.

Pay particular attention to that first sentence. It's the one you keep ignoring.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

If you're gonna repeat lies don't expect to not get called on them.  The part in bold above, where I dribbled out info here and there, point that out or be known as the same kind of liar you were when you lied about me accusing you of being a heretic.

 

[rsc2a]

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

If you're gonna repeat lies don't expect to not get called on them.  The part in bold above, where I dribbled out info here and there, point that out or be known as the same kind of liar you were when you lied about me accusing you of being a heretic.

Oh?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Oh?

You've got to be kidding me.  How is that in any way remotely close to what you alleged?  Even if that piece of info fit your description, which it doesn't, "here and there" and "dribbling" is very Dan Ratherish of you, but I expect nothing less.  You have the intellectual integrity of a slimy snail.

 

[ALAYMAN]

And where'd that bloviating punk of a coward who's hiding behind an avatar and pseudonym slither off to?

 

[Castor Muscular]

You have the intellectual integrity of a slimy snail.

You fail at similes. 

Try, "you have the intellectual integrity of a Jayson Blair."  Which, by the way, is a level of intellectual integrity to which you could aspire.  Baby steps, you know. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

It's like I said Beelzebub, Beelzebub, Beelzebub (or Beetlejuice ).....and pooof........... a different bloviating punk appears. 


They're coming out of the woodwork.


lol

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

rsc2a:

you really haven;t been paying attention ..... have you......

Apparently not. That's why I'm ignoring what people repeatedly say so I can argue with the positions they've never held.

/sarcasm

You actually do that...often. 

 

[rsc2a]

Oh?

You've got to be kidding me.  How is that in any way remotely close to what you alleged?  Even if that piece of info fit your description, which it doesn't, "here and there" and "dribbling" is very Dan Ratherish of you, but I expect nothing less.  You have the intellectual integrity of a slimy snail.

Tell me. How did you not dribble out little bits of information here and there about the scenario in question? You gave "facts", later you added more, later you added more...

 

[ALAYMAN]

And another example of how intellectually dishonest rsc2a is, he said....

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

Where in this thread have I said that somebody is wrong for taking a pacifistic (or ANY) approach to this subject?


When you pull things like that out of your anus they small like that thing that's round and sounds like a bell........














Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnng!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Tell me. How did you not dribble out little bits of information here and there about the scenario in question? You gave "facts", later you added more, later you added more...

You have the floor.  Scan the thread and place the evidence here for all to see.  Make your case, liar.

 

[rsc2a]

And another example of how intellectually dishonest rsc2a is, he said....

Actually, what I saw here is what others described. The original purpose of the thread was to troll, and the method in this case was to play a game of "gotcha" by dribbling out little bits of information here and there so he could smugly look down on those who gave the "wrong" answer.

Where in this thread have I said that somebody is wrong for taking a pacifistic (or ANY) approach to this subject?


When you pull things like that out of your anus they small like that thing that's round and sounds like a bell........














Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnng!

Was any mention made of you saying someone was wrong for taking a particular approach. I said you wanted to look smugly down your nose at people who gave the "wrong answer"....you know like you did in the post I just quoted.

 

[rsc2a]

Tell me. How did you not dribble out little bits of information here and there about the scenario in question? You gave "facts", later you added more, later you added more...

You have the floor.  Scan the thread and place the evidence here for all to see.  Make your case, liar.

Nah...they can look themselves. All they have to do is read the first three pages.