How far would you go to protect one of your own?

Enow said:
It seems most of the responses in this thread favours the American way to respond and not the christian way to respond.

Jesus Christ would have no need of a gun, but I think everybody knows that.  Just because it looks cool and something the NRA would proudly endorse hardly makes it pleasing to God.

I think most believers today seem to have forgotten why we are here.  "To live is Christ and to die is gain" should be our motivation:  not  "To love others but if you hurt or take advantage over me, I will make you pay".

He didn't need one but he thought his disciples needed swords (only two disciples needed one Luke 22:38) in case some of the officers (who arrested Jesus) would try to attack them. None of them who were with Judas actually did but there is a principle here. Statistically speaking there is always the possibility of a couple of bad cops in the crowd. We have the right to defend ourselves against bad cops.
 
[quote author=brianb]He didn't need one but he thought his disciples needed swords (only two disciples needed one Luke 22:38) in case some of the officers (who arrested Jesus) would try to attack them. None of them who were with Judas actually did but there is a principle here.[/quote]

From my reading (and looking at what others have said), the consensus seems to be "we don't really know what Jesus meant."
 
As to the OP....

....it is wonderful to have really good Christian friends...

...AND it is wonderful to have some friends who are probably Christians but not real good at it....




...with military backgrounds.....and very few scruples......


......who for $10 and a sack of White Castles would be only too happy to make someone disappear.......
 
Frag said:
As to the OP....

....it is wonderful to have really good Christian friends...

...AND it is wonderful to have some friends who are probably Christians but not real good at it....

...with military backgrounds.....and very few scruples......

......who for $10 and a sack of White Castles would be only too happy to make someone disappear.......

Because violence by proxy is somehow more moral than actually getting your own hands dirty?
 
rsc2a said:
Frag said:
As to the OP....

....it is wonderful to have really good Christian friends...

...AND it is wonderful to have some friends who are probably Christians but not real good at it....

...with military backgrounds.....and very few scruples......

......who for $10 and a sack of White Castles would be only too happy to make someone disappear.......

Because violence by proxy is somehow more moral than actually getting your own hands dirty?

Not more moral.....just more sensible.  If the stalker in the OP goes missing, guess who the prime suspect is?  Yep, her father.  So sometimes we just help each other out.  :)
 
FreeToBeMe said:
Izdaari said:
Agreed, The best way to protect your daughter is to teach her to protect herself.

Or, you can just let Johane Le Puke's church teach her for you! http://www.windsorhills.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2013-Shooting-Class-Flier.pdf

For 200 bucks, you can be a bible-totin' AND a gun-totin' follower of the Lord Jesus Christ! 

gunsandgod.jpg


I'm all for responsible gun ownership, but when "churches" hold weapons training classes for their sheeple, it seems to me like they're deviating quite a bit from the Great Commission.

That's not the churches' job. And I wouldn't trust the quality of the training there either. It may be ok on the firearms, but it doesn't seem to include legal consequences, situational awareness or hand-to-hand.
 
Frag said:
As to the OP....

....it is wonderful to have really good Christian friends...

...AND it is wonderful to have some friends who are probably Christians but not real good at it....




...with military backgrounds.....and very few scruples......


......who for $10 and a sack of White Castles would be only too happy to make someone disappear.......

That's not quite fair. I would charge more than that.  :P
 
ALAYMAN said:
Imagine you have raised a good Christian daughter to adulthood.  She goes away to a Christian college as a single gal.  She's a wonderful Christian lady, unassuming and not really looking to marry right away.  She just simply wants to go about her educational business and get her job/career kickstarted after college, and if the Lord gives her a mate by then, great, if not, okie-dokie too.  Along the way of young adult life she exemplifies charity, looking out for the less fortunate, and being gracious to all who she comes into contact with.  In doing so, she attracts the attention of a socially regressive outcast, who she wants to be the hands and feet of Christ to, so she befriends him.  He takes things the wrong way, wants more than just her kindness, and aggressively pushes for her to have a dating relationship with him.  She says firmly but kindly, "no".  He doesn't take the rejection well, but eventually stops bugging her.  She graduates, gets a job, eventually buying her own house and moving into it on her own.  She is still single.  He re-enters the picture and begins harrassing her with phone calls and showing up at her work.  The cops are called to intervene, but they are ineffective.  This transpires over a period of years.  You approach him and tell him to stay away from your daughter, in no uncertain terms, but your efforts are to no avail.  His behavior continues unabated.  This transpires over a long period, on and off, covering several years.  His malicious stalking  takes its toll on your daughter's health.  The cops are ineffective at stopping the man, and you believe his threatening behavior is becoming more hostile,  even to the point that he could be enough of a danger to actually cause her serious physical harm.

As a Christian, what extent would you be willing to go to in order to protect your daughter?

I would look into taking legal action. I would say if lines are drawn legally, and then he crosses them a good lawsuit would fix the situation.

I don't believe guns are the answer in this situation.
 
Enow said "Sometimes we have to die"

Die for the gospel, yes.

Die because of some creepy stalker, no.
 
Timothy said:
Enow said "Sometimes we have to die"

Die for the gospel, yes.

Die because of some creepy stalker, no.

Are these situations always different?
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
Timothy said:
Enow said "Sometimes we have to die"

Die for the gospel, yes.

Die because of some creepy stalker, no.

Are these situations always different?

i sincerely hope...  for the sake of your own children....  that if one of them was attacked or threatened you would not waste too much time trying to figure it out .. before you took action to protect them....

I see a significant difference in self-defense and the defense of others. I also see significant difference in intentionally lethal and non-lethal force. And, yet again, I see significant difference in addressing an active threat and pre-emptively engaging a potential threat.
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
Timothy said:
Enow said "Sometimes we have to die"

Die for the gospel, yes.

Die because of some creepy stalker, no.

Are these situations always different?

i sincerely hope...  for the sake of your own children....  that if one of them was attacked or threatened you would not waste too much time trying to figure it out .. before you took action to protect them....

Actually, thinking about this more, I think your argument is based on a very small version of the "gospel". The gospel is much more than "Jesus died so I get to go to heaven." The Gospel is that the Kingdom of God is here. Jesus is Lord of all: life, death, creation, Hell, disease, hurt, joy, everything. And by abiding in Him, He gives us victory over every evil in this world.

The Gospel is that Jesus died and, by doing so, showed us what forgiveness, grace, and love looks like. By His death, He showed us how to the response to suffering at the hands of others isn't striking back at them, but absorbing that suffering and letting it die with you, thus ending the cycle. It is intentionally accepting the suffering instead of passing it on. (1 Peter 2:19-23)

The Gospel is that Jesus lives and so that we know that we are victorious. By His resurrection, we know that, if we absorb that suffering, there is life everlasting (Mark 8:35). If we surrender ourselves to God, He will give us everything we need. We know that the system Jesus instituted is completely backwards from the system of this world; His is a system where death brings life (John 12:24), the least become the greatest (Mark 10:44), strength is made perfect in weakness (2 Cor 12:9), suffering is a cause for rejoice (James 1:2), and hate is destroyed by love (Matt 28:6). This all we learn from the Resurrection.

The gospel isn't that we get to go to heaven when we die and God will destroy everything. The gospel is that God is restoring creation, redeeming it from the effects of sin and the Fall. (Romans 8:21) He is doing it now through His body, His people, (2 Cor 5:18-19) and He will ultimately do it upon His Return by redeeming all that has been broken. (Rev 21:4) The end game isn't going to heaven. The end game is heaven coming to a restored earth.(Rev 21:2)

With this fuller, greater, understanding of what the Gospel is, one can understand how dying for the Gospel might very well be dying at the hands of some creepy stalker.
 
ivannette said:
l o l

i do not believe you even know the right hand from the left  ;)

Since you've got sock puppets on both of yours, I'm surprised you seem to think you do.
 
This is why my daughter is a 3rd degree black belt and a crack shot. As for what I would do, remember I am only half civilized. The mountains are vast and have claimed many a man over the past 300 years leaving no trace of their passing. I know of many isolated coves and old grave yards.


ChuckBob
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
Actually, thinking about this more, I think your argument is based on a very small version of the "gospel". The gospel is much more than "Jesus died so I get to go to heaven." The Gospel is that the Kingdom of God is here. Jesus is Lord of all: life, death, creation, Hell, disease, hurt, joy, everything. And by abiding in Him, He gives us victory over every evil in this world.

The Gospel is that Jesus died and, by doing so, showed us what forgiveness, grace, and love looks like. By His death, He showed us how to the response to suffering at the hands of others isn't striking back at them, but absorbing that suffering and letting it die with you, thus ending the cycle. It is intentionally accepting the suffering instead of passing it on. (1 Peter 2:19-23)

The Gospel is that Jesus lives and so that we know that we are victorious. By His resurrection, we know that, if we absorb that suffering, there is life everlasting (Mark 8:35). If we surrender ourselves to God, He will give us everything we need. We know that the system Jesus instituted is completely backwards from the system of this world; His is a system where death brings life (John 12:24), the least become the greatest (Mark 10:44), strength is made perfect in weakness (2 Cor 12:9), suffering is a cause for rejoice (James 1:2), and hate is destroyed by love (Matt 28:6). This all we learn from the Resurrection.

The gospel isn't that we get to go to heaven when we die and God will destroy everything. The gospel is that God is restoring creation, redeeming it from the effects of sin and the Fall. (Romans 8:21) He is doing it now through His body, His people, (2 Cor 5:18-19) and He will ultimately do it upon His Return by redeeming all that has been broken. (Rev 21:4) The end game isn't going to heaven. The end game is heaven coming to a restored earth.(Rev 21:2)

With this fuller, greater, understanding of what the Gospel is, one can understand how dying for the Gospel might very well be dying at the hands of some creepy stalker.

in light of the fact that the OP was asking what you would do to protect your own daughter from harm.... i find that last sentence in your statement to be one of the most sickening and disturbing things i have read on this forum yet... .. .

if that is the choice you would make for your daughter then i feel very sorry for her.... ..  but personally i am thankful God gave me an earthly father that knows how to protect me.. . and who would not hesitate to do so...... .

Did you deliberately ignore my other post?

I see a significant difference in self-defense and the defense of others. I also see significant difference in intentionally lethal and non-lethal force. And, yet again, I see significant difference in addressing an active threat and pre-emptively engaging a potential threat.
 
I would beat the living **** out of him, and that would be his one and only warning to move on and/or find professional help. Beyond that, the mountains here are well adept at keeping secrets.

ALAYMAN said:
Imagine you have raised a good Christian daughter to adulthood.  She goes away to a Christian college as a single gal.  She's a wonderful Christian lady, unassuming and not really looking to marry right away.  She just simply wants to go about her educational business and get her job/career kickstarted after college, and if the Lord gives her a mate by then, great, if not, okie-dokie too.  Along the way of young adult life she exemplifies charity, looking out for the less fortunate, and being gracious to all who she comes into contact with.  In doing so, she attracts the attention of a socially regressive outcast, who she wants to be the hands and feet of Christ to, so she befriends him.  He takes things the wrong way, wants more than just her kindness, and aggressively pushes for her to have a dating relationship with him.  She says firmly but kindly, "no".  He doesn't take the rejection well, but eventually stops bugging her.  She graduates, gets a job, eventually buying her own house and moving into it on her own.  She is still single.  He re-enters the picture and begins harrassing her with phone calls and showing up at her work.  The cops are called to intervene, but they are ineffective.  This transpires over a period of years.  You approach him and tell him to stay away from your daughter, in no uncertain terms, but your efforts are to no avail.  His behavior continues unabated.  This transpires over a long period, on and off, covering several years.  His malicious stalking  takes its toll on your daughter's health.  The cops are ineffective at stopping the man, and you believe his threatening behavior is becoming more hostile,  even to the point that he could be enough of a danger to actually cause her serious physical harm.

As a Christian, what extent would you be willing to go to in order to protect your daughter?
 
aleshanee said:
Enow said:
It seems most of the responses in this thread favours the American way to respond and not the christian way to respond.

Jesus Christ would have no need of a gun, but I think everybody knows that.  Just because it looks cool and something the NRA would proudly endorse hardly makes it pleasing to God.

I think most believers today seem to have forgotten why we are here.  "To live is Christ and to die is gain" should be our motivation:  not  "To love others but if you hurt or take advantage over me, I will make you pay".

that;s all fine and good when talking about yourself... .. but when talking about a daughter that God has given you the responsibility to protect... it;s another matter... (or at least i hope it would be). ... .. for all of us to live is Christ and to die is gain...  but is it gain for your daughter to die because someone attacked her and her father failed to protect her?.....  or simply chose not to?.....

Christian daughters should be made aware that this is the risk in any ministry.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

Recognizing the cost of serving Him is what every parent must accept just as instructing their daughters to prepare for that eventuality and to be wise in not casting pearls before swine.  We serve Him by ministering to those that seek Him:  not by serving man whenever we see someone lonely. 

Being neighborly is one thing:  doing unto others as you would have them do unto you is another:  but we should lean on Him for help & discernment when ministering to any member of the opposite sex, and be ready to pay the price with His love.

Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Sometimes we have to die for His word to take root and bear fruit.  The daughter is in a good place now:  let her death not be in vain by killing the guy, but by forgiving him for he knows not what he has done.

Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
 
Timothy said:
Enow said "Sometimes we have to die"

Die for the gospel, yes.

Die because of some creepy stalker, no.

Christian daughters should be made aware that this is the risk in any ministry.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

Recognizing the cost of serving Him is what every parent must accept just as instructing their daughters to prepare for that eventuality and to be wise in not casting pearls before swine.  We serve Him by ministering to those that seek Him:  not by serving man whenever we see someone lonely. 

Being neighborly is one thing:  doing unto others as you would have them do unto you is another:  but we should lean on Him for help & discernment when ministering to any member of the opposite sex, and be ready to pay the price with His love.

Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Sometimes we have to die for His word to take root and bear fruit.  The daughter is in a good place now:  let her death not be in vain by killing the guy, but by forgiving him for he knows not what he has done.

Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
 
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