HAC Honorary Doctorate Recipients

[RAIDER]

People don't grow churches. God does. Why do you keep ignoring that basic point?

Because HAC did not teach that...they taught methods. And the methods they taught build great works. Right, raider?

Yes, you are correct.  God builds the church.  I take it for granted that people are smart enough to realize this.  When I say, "A HAC grad built a church in Ohio" I should say, "God built a church in Ohio by using a HAC grad".  Again, I have to remember that the scorners are looking for any way to criticize.  Thank you for your ministry.

I guess, my issue is, it still always comes down to numbers and numbers constitutes a spiritually mature growing, great work. 

I know you would not agree with this but you seem to come across this way. 

I actually joke on here that it's "all about the numbers".  Numbers were stressed at HAC/FBCH.  I believe they were stressed too much.  How many did you have on your bus today?  How many were in your Bible Club?  How many people did you see saved this week?  What was the attendance at FBCH last Sunday?

Now, I will say that numbers are not all bad.  I believe if we witness faithfully for Christ we will see people saved.  This would constitute a number.  We build out auditoriums to accommodate the crowd.  This would constitute a number.  We do make fun of HAC/FBCH for number emphasis, but numbers are also mentioned in the Bible many times.  The problem is when it becomes a pride issue.

I think the numbers push can make a faithful servant of God feel inadequate who is ministering to a "small" group of people.  This is where I have issues.  Now, with all that being said, if you are going to give out Honorary Doctorates you must have a measuring stick.  Some may call it unfortunate, but the number of people saved, baptized, and joining the church constitute success in the eyes of FBCH/HAC.

 

[Bruh]

People don't grow churches. God does. Why do you keep ignoring that basic point?

Because HAC did not teach that...they taught methods. And the methods they taught build great works. Right, raider?

Yes, you are correct.  God builds the church.  I take it for granted that people are smart enough to realize this.  When I say, "A HAC grad built a church in Ohio" I should say, "God built a church in Ohio by using a HAC grad".  Again, I have to remember that the scorners are looking for any way to criticize.  Thank you for your ministry.

I guess, my issue is, it still always comes down to numbers and numbers constitutes a spiritually mature growing, great work. 

I know you would not agree with this but you seem to come across this way. 

I actually joke on here that it's "all about the numbers".  Numbers were stressed at HAC/FBCH.  I believe they were stressed too much.  How many did you have on your bus today?  How many were in your Bible Club?  How many people did you see saved this week?  What was the attendance at FBCH last Sunday?

Now, I will say that numbers are not all bad.  I believe if we witness faithfully for Christ we will see people saved.  This would constitute a number.  We build out auditoriums to accommodate the crowd.  This would constitute a number.  We do make fun of HAC/FBCH for number emphasis, but numbers are also mentioned in the Bible many times.  The problem is when it becomes a pride issue.

I think the numbers push can make a faithful servant of God feel inadequate who is ministering to a "small" group of people.  This is where I have issues.  Now, with all that being said, if you are going to give out Honorary Doctorates you must have a measuring stick.  Some may call it unfortunate, but the number of people saved, baptized, and joining the church constitute success in the eyes of FBCH/HAC.

You are correct. 

Now, would you agree that, this is really not a biblical measuring stick?

 

[sword]

People don't grow churches. God does. Why do you keep ignoring that basic point?

Because HAC did not teach that...they taught methods. And the methods they taught build great works. Right, raider?

Yes, you are correct.  God builds the church.  I take it for granted that people are smart enough to realize this.  When I say, "A HAC grad built a church in Ohio" I should say, "God built a church in Ohio by using a HAC grad".  Again, I have to remember that the scorners are looking for any way to criticize.  Thank you for your ministry.

I guess, my issue is, it still always comes down to numbers and numbers constitutes a spiritually mature growing, great work. 

I know you would not agree with this but you seem to come across this way. 

I actually joke on here that it's "all about the numbers".  Numbers were stressed at HAC/FBCH.  I believe they were stressed too much.  How many did you have on your bus today?  How many were in your Bible Club?  How many people did you see saved this week?  What was the attendance at FBCH last Sunday?

Now, I will say that numbers are not all bad.  I believe if we witness faithfully for Christ we will see people saved.  This would constitute a number.  We build out auditoriums to accommodate the crowd.  This would constitute a number.  We do make fun of HAC/FBCH for number emphasis, but numbers are also mentioned in the Bible many times.  The problem is when it becomes a pride issue.

I think the numbers push can make a faithful servant of God feel inadequate who is ministering to a "small" group of people.  This is where I have issues.  Now, with all that being said, if you are going to give out Honorary Doctorates you must have a measuring stick.  Some may call it unfortunate, but the number of people saved, baptized, and joining the church constitute success in the eyes of FBCH/HAC.

You are correct. 

Now, would you agree that, this is really not a biblical measuring stick?

For many years I heard the proof of Gods blessing was how IFB churches were starting all over the country & the fastest growing & largest churches were all Fundamental Baptist Churches.

Now that the largest churches in America are of a different stripe we are being told mega churches are the sign of compromise & liberalism. Pastors like Olsteen, Stanley, Hybels, Nobels & Warren must be doing something unscriptural if they are that big.

Thoughts?

 

[Bruh]

People don't grow churches. God does. Why do you keep ignoring that basic point?

Because HAC did not teach that...they taught methods. And the methods they taught build great works. Right, raider?

Yes, you are correct.  God builds the church.  I take it for granted that people are smart enough to realize this.  When I say, "A HAC grad built a church in Ohio" I should say, "God built a church in Ohio by using a HAC grad".  Again, I have to remember that the scorners are looking for any way to criticize.  Thank you for your ministry.

I guess, my issue is, it still always comes down to numbers and numbers constitutes a spiritually mature growing, great work. 

I know you would not agree with this but you seem to come across this way. 

I actually joke on here that it's "all about the numbers".  Numbers were stressed at HAC/FBCH.  I believe they were stressed too much.  How many did you have on your bus today?  How many were in your Bible Club?  How many people did you see saved this week?  What was the attendance at FBCH last Sunday?

Now, I will say that numbers are not all bad.  I believe if we witness faithfully for Christ we will see people saved.  This would constitute a number.  We build out auditoriums to accommodate the crowd.  This would constitute a number.  We do make fun of HAC/FBCH for number emphasis, but numbers are also mentioned in the Bible many times.  The problem is when it becomes a pride issue.

I think the numbers push can make a faithful servant of God feel inadequate who is ministering to a "small" group of people.  This is where I have issues.  Now, with all that being said, if you are going to give out Honorary Doctorates you must have a measuring stick.  Some may call it unfortunate, but the number of people saved, baptized, and joining the church constitute success in the eyes of FBCH/HAC.

You are correct. 

Now, would you agree that, this is really not a biblical measuring stick?

For many years I heard the proof of Gods blessing was how IFB churches were starting all over the country & the fastest growing & largest churches were all Fundamental Baptist Churches.

Now that the largest churches in America are of a different stripe we are being told mega churches are the sign of compromise & liberalism. Pastors like Olsteen, Stanley, Hybels, Nobels & Warren must be doing something unscriptural if they are that big.

Thoughts?

Gimme a few hours I gotta take care of a few things.  Thanks!

 

[RAIDER]

For many years I heard the proof of Gods blessing was how IFB churches were starting all over the country & the fastest growing & largest churches were all Fundamental Baptist Churches.

Now that the largest churches in America are of a different stripe we are being told mega churches are the sign of compromise & liberalism. Pastors like Olsteen, Stanley, Hybels, Nobels & Warren must be doing something unscriptural if they are that big.

Thoughts?

Good topic.  I think the IFB crowd felt that they were following the Bible in all areas of faith and practice.  Their growth came from following the Great Commission.  They were not compromising.

The IFB crowd now looks at many of the mega churches and sees much of their growth from lower standards, less services, "softer" preaching, etc.

 

[RAIDER]

I actually joke on here that it's "all about the numbers".  Numbers were stressed at HAC/FBCH.  I believe they were stressed too much.  How many did you have on your bus today?  How many were in your Bible Club?  How many people did you see saved this week?  What was the attendance at FBCH last Sunday?

Now, I will say that numbers are not all bad.  I believe if we witness faithfully for Christ we will see people saved.  This would constitute a number.  We build out auditoriums to accommodate the crowd.  This would constitute a number.  We do make fun of HAC/FBCH for number emphasis, but numbers are also mentioned in the Bible many times.  The problem is when it becomes a pride issue.

I think the numbers push can make a faithful servant of God feel inadequate who is ministering to a "small" group of people.  This is where I have issues.  Now, with all that being said, if you are going to give out Honorary Doctorates you must have a measuring stick.  Some may call it unfortunate, but the number of people saved, baptized, and joining the church constitute success in the eyes of FBCH/HAC.

You are correct. 

Now, would you agree that, this is really not a biblical measuring stick?
[/quote]

I would say that it could be a Biblical measuring stick, but it is not always the case.  If God chooses to grow a church because one of his servants is being faithful, that is great.  If God chooses for another of his faithful servants to minister to a small group, that is great.  Because a guy is following the Bible and has a large ministry doesn't mean that he is wrong.

 

[Walt]

We traveled with tour groups occasionally.  One spring tour we went to a little church in Northern Illinois pastored by a HAC grad.  I would say the church consisted mostly of homeless people.  I vividly remember feeling more welcomed by them than we did the "big name" churches we went to.  We also went to a smallish church in Western Illinois pastored by another HAC grad.  Felt the same way there.  When we left there I thought to myself..."Now THESE guys are doing it.  They are reaching a segment of society that many others won't "waste their time" on."  They didn't live in lavish homes.  The didn't drive expensive vehicles.  They don't send dozens of kids to HAC.  They were just some of the most humble and sincere servants of God I've ever met.  In my opinion, THEY are deserving of honor for the work they are doing. 

That's the problem with giving out "honorary doctorates" in the first place.  We don't really know who is worthy and who is not.  Maybe they aren't growing the largest Sunday school in the world.  But, as far as I know, they aren't molesting teenagers either.  Maybe they are reaching the person who will change the world for Christ. Only God knows.  Let's leave the honoring up to Him.

I so much agree with this post.  I am not averse to awarding honorary doctorates, but it should be toward the end of a man's career/pastorate with much prayer for wisdom.

A man may build a church of a thousand shallow Christians that go soul-winning every week, and are "busy" in the ministry, but they have no relationship with God and molest teens.

Another man may have a small flock that are rooted in Christ and honoring Him, and growing in Christ.

Sadly, the first gets all the attention, and the second is showered with criticism.

 

[RAIDER]

I so much agree with this post.  I am not averse to awarding honorary doctorates, but it should be toward the end of a man's career/pastorate with much prayer for wisdom.

A man may build a church of a thousand shallow Christians that go soul-winning every week, and are "busy" in the ministry, but they have no relationship with God and molest teens.

Another man may have a small flock that are rooted in Christ and honoring Him, and growing in Christ.

Sadly, the first gets all the attention, and the second is showered with criticism.

We all know that Dr. Hyles spoke at meetings all over the country.  He met men with large churches and men with small churches.  He had a way of making everyone feel important.  Looking back, its too bad that he didn't choose a few more of the "small ministry" guys that he knew were serving faithfully.  This would have been a nice mix with some with larger ministries.  Of course, I'm sure he would have been criticized for this. 

 

[Bruh]

For many years I heard the proof of Gods blessing was how IFB churches were starting all over the country & the fastest growing & largest churches were all Fundamental Baptist Churches.

Now that the largest churches in America are of a different stripe we are being told mega churches are the sign of compromise & liberalism. Pastors like Olsteen, Stanley, Hybels, Nobels & Warren must be doing something unscriptural if they are that big.

Thoughts?

Good topic.  I think the IFB crowd felt that they were following the Bible in all areas of faith and practice.  Their growth came from following the Great Commission.  They were not compromising.

The IFB crowd now looks at many of the mega churches and sees much of their growth from lower standards, less services, "softer" preaching, etc.

Raider said:
I would say that it could be a Biblical measuring stick, but it is not always the case.  If God chooses to grow a church because one of his servants is being faithful, that is great.  If God chooses for another of his faithful servants to minister to a small group, that is great.  Because a guy is following the Bible and has a large ministry doesn't mean that he is wrong.

Raider, so which is it?  Because they have drop their standards and preach softer or is it because, they are following the great commission?

Has the IFB dropped the ball on the great commission and the different stripe mega churches picked it up? And they are the ones growing larger churches.

 

[Ex-Fundy]

HAC Honorary Doctorate Recipient

Mrs. Gail Riplinger, Interior decorator

Not worthy

She has left a dark blotch on FBCH.

She has left a dark blotch on FBCH no doubt...but if you really want to be honest most folks in high levels of leadership there have been leaving dark blotches on it for the past couple of decades.

 

[cast.sheep]

I don't know anything about Gail Riplinger, personally. I did, however, read In Awe of Thy Word and when I was finished...I truly was in awe of my KJV. Now...I am not KJVO. I don't know what the big argument is, nor do I care. I guess my simplistic view is that the Holy Spirit within me is capable of using any version to teach/work on me when that is my desire.
I had a hard time getting through some parts of her book, but the parts on rhyme and meter were amazing to me. I don't remember specific points, I just remember that when I finished reading her book, I felt for the first time that my Bible was a truly miraculous book.
What am I missing?

 

[FSSL]

Did you come away thinking that the KJV was a miraculous book and that the NIV wasn't?

 

[rsc2a]

Did you come away thinking that the KJV was a miraculous book and that the NIV wasn't?

Praise the Jebus for Dr. Riplinger for opening mine eyes to the wikidnuss of debil bibbles!

 

[sword]

HAC Honorary Doctorate Recipient

RENO LIKINS 2003
Youth Pastor & National Youth Speaker
Shawnee Baptist Church, Louisville, KY

 

[sword]

HAC Honorary Doctorate Recipient

Pastor Mike Haynes
pastor of Trident Baptist Church

 

[bgwilkinson]

I don't know anything about Gail Riplinger, personally. I did, however, read In Awe of Thy Word and when I was finished...I truly was in awe of my KJV. Now...I am not KJVO. I don't know what the big argument is, nor do I care. I guess my simplistic view is that the Holy Spirit within me is capable of using any version to teach/work on me when that is my desire.
I had a hard time getting through some parts of her book, but the parts on rhyme and meter were amazing to me. I don't remember specific points, I just remember that when I finished reading her book, I felt for the first time that my Bible was a truly miraculous book.
What am I missing?

The one thing that comes to mind more than anything in Gail's book is her low view of translations other than the KJV. Specifically where she calls other versions satan's bibles. This is blasphemy againt the Holy Spirit the breather of the Words of God in Greek and Hebrew.

Nearly all Bible translations come from those same God Breathed Hebrew and Greek words, thus she is saying satan is the author of the other versions. She has done much harm to the work of Christ by causing dissension among the brethren.

There are many of us who love God's Word in any valid translation. They are not the devils bibles but the very Word of God.

Miles Smith who wrote the Preface to the KJV1611 said, (I paraphrase) that even the meanest (the poorest) translation contains the Word of God, nay is the Word of God.
He was specifically referring to the Rheims NT of 1582 translated by the English Catholics in Rheims France.

 

[sword]

HAC Honorary Doctorate Recipient

Pastor John Vaprezsan
Metro Baptist Church, Detroit

 

[Ex-Fundy]

I don't know anything about Gail Riplinger, personally. I did, however, read In Awe of Thy Word and when I was finished...I truly was in awe of my KJV. Now...I am not KJVO. I don't know what the big argument is, nor do I care. I guess my simplistic view is that the Holy Spirit within me is capable of using any version to teach/work on me when that is my desire.
I had a hard time getting through some parts of her book, but the parts on rhyme and meter were amazing to me. I don't remember specific points, I just remember that when I finished reading her book, I felt for the first time that my Bible was a truly miraculous book.
What am I missing?

To answer your question, I think the part where she is an ill-qualified KJBO heretic who derides all other English translations as "the devil's bibles".

In my mind she has always been a perfect match for FBCH.

 

[cast.sheep]

Hmmmm. Ok. I don't remember all the anti-other Bible stuff. Maybe because I heard that from the pulpit on a weekly basis. Ha! What I do remember is the miraculous rhyme and meter information. Was that incorrect?
Either way, I do believe God directed me to read that book during a time when I was questioning my faith and the Word of God itself. I came away with renewed faith. I guess God can use anyone to help anyone at any given time.

 

[Ex-Fundy]

Hmmmm. Ok. I don't remember all the anti-other Bible stuff. Maybe because I heard that from the pulpit on a weekly basis. Ha! What I do remember is the miraculous rhyme and meter information. Was that incorrect?
Either way, I do believe God directed me to read that book during a time when I was questioning my faith and the Word of God itself. I came away with renewed faith. I guess God can use anyone to help anyone at any given time.

Not sure about the rhyme & meter stuff, but glad that your faith was strengthened regardless.