"Getting Saved"

[rsc2a]

[quote author=subllibrm]Or all of the examples you have given are of partial salvation that may or may not lead to a final (eternal) salvation.[/quote]

This.

(Although I wouldn't use the term "partial salvation". These people were fully saved from the condition that God delivered them from.)

 

[ALAYMAN]

subllibrm, I've enjoyed reading the give-and-take.  I like your style, perserverance, and uncanny ability to zero in on the thing that just don't sit right.  Keep up the good fight bro.  rsc2a is an inclusivist who reads after the likes of Rob Bell, Clark Pinnock, and NT Wright which is an outcropping of the POMO movement that loves ambiguity at the expense of certainty.  The only thing their certain of, is that nothing can be known for sure.   Lots of strange creatures on a "Fundamentalist" forum. 

 

[subllibrm]

[quote author=subllibrm]Or all of the examples you have given are of partial salvation that may or may not lead to a final (eternal) salvation.

This.

(Although I wouldn't use the term "partial salvation". These people were fully saved from the condition that God delivered them from.)
[/quote]

An you expect me to believe that you didn't know that everyone else was working from the "eternal life" definition?

I'm out, have fun everyone.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=subllibrm]Or all of the examples you have given are of partial salvation that may or may not lead to a final (eternal) salvation.

This.

(Although I wouldn't use the term "partial salvation". These people were fully saved from the condition that God delivered them from.)

An you expect me to believe that you didn't know that everyone else was working from the "eternal life" definition?

I'm out, have fun everyone.[/quote]

No. I expect people to read what I wrote from the very beginning...

When does salvation occur? I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.
Is salvation a communal or individual process? Yes.
Is it for the individual or all of creation? Yes.
Is this a process or a point in time? Yes.

 

[Castor Muscular]

When does salvation occur? I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.
Is this a process or a point in time? Yes.

That's pretty much what the Bible says. 

 

[rsc2a]

subllibrm, I've enjoyed reading the give-and-take.  I like your style, perserverance, and uncanny ability to zero in on the thing that just don't sit right.  Keep up the good fight bro.  rsc2a is an inclusivist who reads after the likes of Rob Bell, Clark Pinnock, and NT Wright which is an outcropping of the POMO movement that loves ambiguity at the expense of certainty.  The only thing their certain of, is that nothing can be known for sure.   Lots of strange creatures on a "Fundamentalist" forum. 

What I am is someone who doesn't speak where Scripture is silent and who ignores Scripture when it speaks. What that means is that I'm comfortable with both/and instead of either/or in a lot of cases where people try to keep saying either/or.

What's vastly amusing is that both you and CU label me a heretic when, of the three of us, I am the only one that completely affirms the essentials of historic Christianity and recognized by all of Christendom.

 

[rsc2a]

When does salvation occur? I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.
Is this a process or a point in time? Yes.

That's pretty much what the Bible says.

Yes. I honestly don't see how this is so complicated.

 

[ALAYMAN]

That's pretty much what the Bible says.

Of course neither the exclusivist nor inclusivist perspective differs on this point, nor has anybody in this thread claimed any position in opposition to that concept.

What I am is someone who doesn't speak where Scripture is silent and who ignores Scripture when it speaks. What that means is that I'm comfortable with both/and instead of either/or in a lot of cases where people try to keep saying either/or.

The law of non-contradiction and the nature of truth claims are exclusivistic of necessity.  Both Calvinists and Arminians can be right, for instance.  Both might be wrong, but both can't be right.  The hermeneutic of the POMOs and relativists wants their cake and eat it too, they say things like God wins.  Sounds nice, and I hope Bell would be right, but my conscience isn't convinced by Scripture that he is.  Again, you being reformed, I'm sure you understand.

What's vastly amusing is that both you and CU label me a heretic when, of the three of us, I am the only one that completely affirms the essentials of historic Christianity and recognized by all of Christendom.

Could you point me to where I called you a heretic?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

What I am is someone who doesn't speak where Scripture is silent and who ignores Scripture when it speaks. What that means is that I'm comfortable with both/and instead of either/or in a lot of cases where people try to keep saying either/or.

The law of non-contradiction and the nature of truth claims are exclusivistic of necessity.  Both Calvinists and Arminians can be right, for instance.  Both might be wrong, but both can't be right.  The hermeneutic of the POMOs and relativists wants their cake and eat it too, they say things like God wins.  Sounds nice, and I hope Bell would be right, but my conscience isn't convinced by Scripture that he is.  Again, you being reformed, I'm sure you understand.[/quote]

Your point?

I'm still the one that is trying to understand what ALL of Scripture teaches without adding where it is silent. I'm not hand-waving away the verses that don't fit with my own personal notions. Instead, you say "huh", then you wrestle with (and through) them until you can either explain the apparent contradiction without dismissing what the texts say or simply say "no idea, but both are clearly there".

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

What's vastly amusing is that both you and CU label me a heretic when, of the three of us, I am the only one that completely affirms the essentials of historic Christianity and recognized by all of Christendom.

Could you point me to where I called you a heretic?[/quote]

Correction...you accused me of cozying up with heretics.

 

[christundivided]

Could you point me to where I called you a heretic?

For the record. I never called rsca a heretic. His caption under his "title" clearly translates "Mr. heretic". I just said he was a self proclaimed "heretic". Obviously, I only went by what he wrote himself.

I will say, that if he honestly believes baptism saves anyone, then he is clearly a heretic. I don't know if he believes such or not. He refuses to debate the matter.

 

[christundivided]

When does salvation occur? I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.
Is this a process or a point in time? Yes.

That's pretty much what the Bible says.

Where does it say this?

I am saved pretty much settles current and future standing.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]I will say, that if he honestly believes baptism saves anyone, then he is clearly a heretic. I don't know if he believes such or not. He refuses to debate the matter.[/quote]

I have clearly stated (probably about 50 times) what (more accurately who) I believe saves...

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]I will say, that if he honestly believes baptism saves anyone, then he is clearly a heretic. I don't know if he believes such or not. He refuses to debate the matter.

I have clearly stated (probably about 50 times) what (more accurately who) I believe saves...
[/quote]

And you clearly undermine such a statement with what else you believe. Just saying "Jesus Saves" doesn't cut rsca. It never has and never will. This is why the Gospel message includes MORE than just the statement "Jesus Saves".

Do you believe anyone of any "age/time" has been saved by getting baptized?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]I will say, that if he honestly believes baptism saves anyone, then he is clearly a heretic. I don't know if he believes such or not. He refuses to debate the matter.

I have clearly stated (probably about 50 times) what (more accurately who) I believe saves...

And you clearly undermine such a statement with what else you believe. Just saying "Jesus Saves" doesn't cut rsca. It never has and never will. This is why the Gospel message includes MORE than just the statement "Jesus Saves". [/quote]

The gospel message is Jesus saves.

[quote author=christundivided]Do you believe anyone of any "age/time" has been saved by getting baptized?[/quote]

No...anyone who ever has (or ever will) be saved was saved by Jesus. Nothing more. Not baptism. Not knowledge of Jesus. Not Jesus and good works. Jesus. Always and only Jesus.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I don't know what a POMO is, but I'm pretty sure it's better than being a HOMO.

(I probably shouldn't criticize HOMO, since I buy HOMO milk all the time.  At least that's what it says on the grocery receipt.)

 

[prophet]

[quote author=prophet]The Bible is Christ.

Anishinabe

No.

This I will agree with you without reservation.

While I agree with the statement as a whole. Where the "Bible" accurately is presented as the "Word of God", it can be said to embody Christ in this present age.
[/quote]Thank You.  Someone pays attention.

Anishinabe

 

[prophet]

[quote author=christundivided]I will say, that if he honestly believes baptism saves anyone, then he is clearly a heretic. I don't know if he believes such or not. He refuses to debate the matter.

I have clearly stated (probably about 50 times) what (more accurately who) I believe saves...

And you clearly undermine such a statement with what else you believe. Just saying "Jesus Saves" doesn't cut rsca. It never has and never will. This is why the Gospel message includes MORE than just the statement "Jesus Saves".

The gospel message is Jesus saves.

[quote author=christundivided]Do you believe anyone of any "age/time" has been saved by getting baptized?[/quote]

No...anyone who ever has (or ever will) be saved was saved by Jesus. Nothing more. Not baptism. Not knowledge of Jesus. Not Jesus and good works. Jesus. Always and only Jesus.
[/quote]The Word,who was made flesh, Saves.

Anishinabe

 

[Castor Muscular]

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

WILL come to me.  Not MAY come to me if [fill in the condition here].  And there is no condition on being accepted, either.  WILL not cast out.  Not MAY not cast out if [fill in the condition here]. 

 

[subllibrm]

When does salvation occur? I was saved. I am being saved. I will be saved.
Is this a process or a point in time? Yes.

That's pretty much what the Bible says.

Who argued against that?

The OP was to define the what/when/how/where/who of eternal salvation (already defined). I am not he one who went on a wild goose chase trying to equate physical rescue from death with spiritual rescue from eternal torment.

Anyone can win any debate (or declare themselves to have won) if they are not bound to a common definition of the issue being debated.

FWIW rsc2a has not answered the OP as it applies to the issue of eternal salvation (already defined). The closest he has come is to say he doesn't know (and by implication that it is unknowable). It was only right to provide him with the truth of scripture that not only is it knowable but that the purpose (at least one of them) is to provide all that we need to know that we have eternal life.

 

[subllibrm]

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

WILL come to me.  Not MAY come to me if [fill in the condition here].  And there is no condition on being accepted, either.  WILL not cast out.  Not MAY not cast out if [fill in the condition here].

Even with my calvanistic sympathies, I can't help but note that there is an action taken by those whom the father gives ... will come. Did the coming save them? NO. Can they accurately say that they came to Christ? YES!