From Just a Member

[prophet]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

From my experience, these leaders love a Matthew 18 type of meeting.  They get to hear what you know so that they can plan their next move.  They usually will preach a sermon on loyalty or forgiveness, or they will start false accusations behind your back about how you are not right with God and you are probably bitter.

They don't have much originality, but they are good at convincing people that Matthew 18 (the way to handle a wrong between two equals) is the way to handle these things. 

These guys are predators (Wolves)  They know how to use your good heart against you.  We were taught at FBC how to be careful of the world and the people out there who would take advantage of us and try to destroy us, but never how to watch out for the smooth talking, "godly" leadership.

The first time I was blown off by EL, I knew he was a clown.
Remember when I started coming back to church, Tim?
I tried to get him him to get involved.

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.
Typical junk from this wolf, and exactly what you are saying.

One Staffer came on the old FFF and said that the word was put out that I was fired by FBCH, when I left.
I'm sure it was CYA because I spoke up against bringing Toungues-talking BTC  music, and T.D.Jakes sermons in.

What a mess we made.
I was part of it, I made it, too.
I accept my share.

May God guidevus all to green pasture.


Anishinabe

 

[prophet]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

From my experience, these leaders love a Matthew 18 type of meeting.  They get to hear what you know so that they can plan their next move.  They usually will preach a sermon on loyalty or forgiveness, or they will start false accusations behind your back about how you are not right with God and you are probably bitter.

They don't have much originality, but they are good at convincing people that Matthew 18 (the way to handle a wrong between two equals) is the way to handle these things. 

These guys are predators (Wolves)  They know how to use your good heart against you.  We were taught at FBC how to be careful of the world and the people out there who would take advantage of us and try to destroy us, but never how to watch out for the smooth talking, "godly" leadership.

The first time I was blown off by EL, I knew he was a clown.
Remember when I started coming back to church, Tim?
I tried to get him him to get involved.

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.
Typical junk from this wolf, and exactly what you are saying.

One Staffer came on the old FFF and said that the word was put out that I was fired by FBCH, when I left.
I'm sure it was CYA because I spoke up against bringing Toungues-talking BTC  music, and T.D.Jakes sermons in.

What a mess we made.
I was part of it, I made it, too.
I accept my share.

May God guide us all to green pasture.


Anishinabe

Anishinabe

 

[Sherryh]

prophet, I'm glad you have risen above the things said about you...it's hard to believe but I let people say what they want because the truth always comes out..........

 

[prophet]

prophet, I'm glad you have risen above the things said about you...it's hard to believe but I let people say what they want because the truth always comes out..........

It doesn't really bother me, because there is so much that i actually can be criticized for.  it is just an example of what FBCH is really made of.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

 

[prophet]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

How

Anishinaabe

 

[16KJV11]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

How

Anishinaabe

Or you were taking intravenous injections of Binaca (sold by the Binaca mule himself, RAIDER).

 

[prophet]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

How

Anishinaabe

Or you were taking intravenous injections of Binaca (sold by the Binaca mule himself, RAIDER).

Shhhhhhh.

Anishinabe

 

[Fresh Air]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

How

Anishinaabe

<snort>

 

[prophet]

Years later, when I was on staff, his assistant Y.P., MD told me that EL still insisted that I won my wrestling matches because I was on drugs.  That he told this to the young men who looked up to me, now late teens or young adults.
He had never once asked me about this, just accused me for 20 years.

Anishinabe

I thought it was because you were channeling Indian spirits.  ;D

How

Anishinaabe

<snort>

Ya don't pay much...

Anishinabe

 

[TidesofTruth]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

From my experience, these leaders love a Matthew 18 type of meeting.  They get to hear what you know so that they can plan their next move.  They usually will preach a sermon on loyalty or forgiveness, or they will start false accusations behind your back about how you are not right with God and you are probably bitter.

They don't have much originality, but they are good at convincing people that Matthew 18 (the way to handle a wrong between two equals) is the way to handle these things. 

These guys are predators (Wolves)  They know how to use your good heart against you.  We were taught at FBC how to be careful of the world and the people out there who would take advantage of us and try to destroy us, but never how to watch out for the smooth talking, "godly" leadership.

1.  Experience does not trump the word of God.  God gave us a manner in which to handle issues within the church.  If you have a problem with what scripture states because of an experience then I cannot help you with that. 

2.  I believe if it fails to give you the desired results then at least you obeyed God.  The rest be upon the person(s) who fail to respond to correction. 

3.  God blesses obedience to His Word regardless of the success of the result.  I would want to be on the blessed side of obedience.

4.  I hope for you and each person who found they should leave FBCH that they seek God's will for the remainder of their life and not use past hurt and/or abuse to be used as a reason to not seek God in all that they do.  I do not believe FBCH is the only nor best place for everyone.  God uses all varieties of churches large and small to accomplish His specific will.

5.  Much like a marriage, When trust has been broken and one finds it beyond repair, it is sometimes best for the mate to be put away because the grief/hurt is to much to bear.  God gave us that option in marriage although for marriage it is not desirable but allowable and I think the same can be said for disassociating oneself with a group of believers.  Although as a member of FBCH I can also say it hurts when someone leaves.  I am never angry at them.  I miss them terribly and I can speak for others I have talked to that we miss working for God together in the same sweet spirit we once did.  This is painful.  So I must urge that as much as be in you to remain together still during the hard difficult periods using all the tools that God has given us for reconciliation so that we may one day still be in the same yoke, but in all things as the Lord wills.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Tides,

You seem like a pretty genuine fellow.  You even started posting with a letter to the public apologizing for the deeds of your church in your community.  I appreciate your contributions on the forum.  Some of us on the forum grew up in FBCH.  Most of us attended there for a while, especially HAC.  Most of us were hurt deeply by the church, its staff and its systems.  Most of us are not bitter, angry, divisive fellows as the leadership of the IFB movement would have you believe.

Most of us enjoy chuckling at our HACker past (see the ymbah or the big day thread) - we are telling inside jokes from 20 years ago that still crack us up.  We debate theology and methodology.  We do point out the abuse of ministry when we see it.  Our goal is not to destroy the Gospel, but to promote the Gospel. 

Personally, I want people who feel trapped in their church by an abusive pastor to recognize that they are not alone, there IS a REAL peace and joy that comes from a relationship with Christ.  There IS a network of pastors, counselors and churches who would love to help you restore the joy of your salvation. 

Yes, sometimes a little bitterness creeps in again as I post.  It is not always easy to recall and retell the events of the past.  However, we do it to enlighten people who are trapped in the abuse.  There IS a way out!  I have to go take care of the emotions that some stories gender before posting again.

You seem to be a long standing member with some voice in the church.  Please stand up for the "little people" who are still being abused in your church.  Physical abusers might still be present.  Emotional abusers definitely are.  Please work to bring change in your church as mush as you are wanting to bring change to the bulletin board.  The teens in your church are sick of the false Christianity.  They know it is false, but they don't know what real is.  Hence, they are rebelling.  They need someone to stand up for them and show them Truth.  How do I know this?  I grew up there.  My friends and family are still there.  I hear the stories and I know well the root.

I hope you continue to contribute to the forum.  I just thought you might want a little more background on those with whom you are arguing.

 

[Timotheus]

1.  Experience does not trump the word of God.  God gave us a manner in which to handle issues within the church.  If you have a problem with what scripture states because of an experience then I cannot help you with that. 

2.  I believe if it fails to give you the desired results then at least you obeyed God.  The rest be upon the person(s) who fail to respond to correction. 

3.  God blesses obedience to His Word regardless of the success of the result.  I would want to be on the blessed side of obedience.

4.  I hope for you and each person who found they should leave FBCH that they seek God's will for the remainder of their life and not use past hurt and/or abuse to be used as a reason to not seek God in all that they do.  I do not believe FBCH is the only nor best place for everyone.  God uses all varieties of churches large and small to accomplish His specific will.

5.  Much like a marriage, When trust has been broken and one finds it beyond repair, it is sometimes best for the mate to be put away because the grief/hurt is to much to bear.  God gave us that option in marriage although for marriage it is not desirable but allowable and I think the same can be said for disassociating oneself with a group of believers.  Although as a member of FBCH I can also say it hurts when someone leaves.  I am never angry at them.  I miss them terribly and I can speak for others I have talked to that we miss working for God together in the same sweet spirit we once did.  This is painful.  So I must urge that as much as be in you to remain together still during the hard difficult periods using all the tools that God has given us for reconciliation so that we may one day still be in the same yoke, but in all things as the Lord wills.

This is a misapplication of Scripture.  Matthew 18 or Luke 17 do not apply.  In each of these chapters Jesus is talking about brother to brother (peer relationships)  My point was that these predators love to misapply scripture for their own gain.

You cannot be reconciled to a wolf (unless you want to be lunch)

I Timothy 5:17-22 might apply here (and we did give you 2 or 3 anonymous witnesses  )

 

[TidesofTruth]

1.  Experience does not trump the word of God.  God gave us a manner in which to handle issues within the church.  If you have a problem with what scripture states because of an experience then I cannot help you with that. 

2.  I believe if it fails to give you the desired results then at least you obeyed God.  The rest be upon the person(s) who fail to respond to correction. 

3.  God blesses obedience to His Word regardless of the success of the result.  I would want to be on the blessed side of obedience.

4.  I hope for you and each person who found they should leave FBCH that they seek God's will for the remainder of their life and not use past hurt and/or abuse to be used as a reason to not seek God in all that they do.  I do not believe FBCH is the only nor best place for everyone.  God uses all varieties of churches large and small to accomplish His specific will.

5.  Much like a marriage, When trust has been broken and one finds it beyond repair, it is sometimes best for the mate to be put away because the grief/hurt is to much to bear.  God gave us that option in marriage although for marriage it is not desirable but allowable and I think the same can be said for disassociating oneself with a group of believers.  Although as a member of FBCH I can also say it hurts when someone leaves.  I am never angry at them.  I miss them terribly and I can speak for others I have talked to that we miss working for God together in the same sweet spirit we once did.  This is painful.  So I must urge that as much as be in you to remain together still during the hard difficult periods using all the tools that God has given us for reconciliation so that we may one day still be in the same yoke, but in all things as the Lord wills.

This is a misapplication of Scripture.  Matthew 18 or Luke 17 do not apply.  In each of these chapters Jesus is talking about brother to brother (peer relationships)  My point was that these predators love to misapply scripture for their own gain.

You cannot be reconciled to a wolf (unless you want to be lunch)

I Timothy 5:17-22 might apply here (and we did give you 2 or 3 anonymous witnesses  )

Maybe you have indoctrination issues.  The pastors are my brothers, my peers.  It absolutely applies to any situation in which you have fault.  Layman are not peons to grovel at the feet of their master pastors.  The pastors are co-laborers for Christ.


Some Reading Material.

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Luke 11:8-11

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.  For the body is not one member, but many.  If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.  Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:  And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.  For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
I Corinthians 12:12-31

 

[Binaca Chugger]

1.  Experience does not trump the word of God.  God gave us a manner in which to handle issues within the church.  If you have a problem with what scripture states because of an experience then I cannot help you with that. 

2.  I believe if it fails to give you the desired results then at least you obeyed God.  The rest be upon the person(s) who fail to respond to correction. 

3.  God blesses obedience to His Word regardless of the success of the result.  I would want to be on the blessed side of obedience.

4.  I hope for you and each person who found they should leave FBCH that they seek God's will for the remainder of their life and not use past hurt and/or abuse to be used as a reason to not seek God in all that they do.  I do not believe FBCH is the only nor best place for everyone.  God uses all varieties of churches large and small to accomplish His specific will.

5.  Much like a marriage, When trust has been broken and one finds it beyond repair, it is sometimes best for the mate to be put away because the grief/hurt is to much to bear.  God gave us that option in marriage although for marriage it is not desirable but allowable and I think the same can be said for disassociating oneself with a group of believers.  Although as a member of FBCH I can also say it hurts when someone leaves.  I am never angry at them.  I miss them terribly and I can speak for others I have talked to that we miss working for God together in the same sweet spirit we once did.  This is painful.  So I must urge that as much as be in you to remain together still during the hard difficult periods using all the tools that God has given us for reconciliation so that we may one day still be in the same yoke, but in all things as the Lord wills.

This is a misapplication of Scripture.  Matthew 18 or Luke 17 do not apply.  In each of these chapters Jesus is talking about brother to brother (peer relationships)  My point was that these predators love to misapply scripture for their own gain.

You cannot be reconciled to a wolf (unless you want to be lunch)

I Timothy 5:17-22 might apply here (and we did give you 2 or 3 anonymous witnesses  )

Maybe you have indoctrination issues.  The pastors are my brothers, my peers.  It absolutely applies to any situation in which you have fault.  Layman are not peons to grovel at the feet of their master pastors.  The pastors are co-laborers for Christ.


Some Reading Material.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.  For the body is not one member, but many.  If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.  Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:  And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.  For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
I Corinthians 12:12-31

No offense, but you are clueless.

You must not have grown up in the system.  The pastor, youth pastor and principal are the lords over the youth.  Underneath the royal three are certain teachers and preeeeeachers.  The teen has no peer to peer relationship with these leaders.  There is no recourse for the teen who is being cursed out, hazed, thrown into lockers or otherwise scorned by his leaders (Yes, it happened).  There is no recourse for the teen who listens to EL laugh and tell teen boys how cool it is to see teen girl's panties because the culottes are so blousey.  You apparently do not understand the dynamics at play in your church.

The reason we are on the forum is because we DID figure out that "Laymen are not peons to grovel at the feet of their master pastors."  This is exactly what we are trying to promote on this forum.  WE AGREE!

Now, if you really want to do some good, go to a teen boy that seems quiet.  Take him out for a nice dinner (with parent's approval) and offer to listen - and I mean really listen without any advice given.  Who knows how much heartache could have been avoided if only....  Maybe there would have been one less suicide in the FBCH teen group.

Keep posting.  You'll get it soon enough.

 

[qwerty]

Hate to break up this kumbaya moment.... but I gave up any hope in FBCH when they kept EL around.... I have family and many friends that attend, I enjoyed my time there as student and staff.  The fact is, the Business Manager had to be somewhat complicit in the mishandling... misappropriation...or whatever the facts are regarding the money that came from DeCoster.  As far as I know, the trail (of tears) of that money has never been fully discovered.  If anything, the Business Manager should have had control of the severe diarrhea of monies that was going unchecked.  He outright lied to the members that morning and never came out and apologized to the congregation for attempting to cover Schaap's sin.  The deacon's had their chance to come clean and start this thing right...by all resigning and starting from scratch.  I know of only one deacon that caused Schaap grief in the meetings over the years, and would not take his "I've got this" as a good answer.  I think of Schaap conducting that deacon's funeral while probably glad about his passing.....

From 2012...

I have said it before, every Bible teacher needs to be let go or reassigned...every assistant pastor needs to be let go or reassigned, every administrator that meet weekly with Schaap just needs to be dismissed. Let them cut the grass, change the oil on a bus, change lightbulbs...not belittling the men who currently do that work, but the blue-collar workers could do a better job at teaching than the over-priced bell hops they have doing it now. The scholars of FBCH/HAC cast their lot with Schaap, stood by him when he went nuts, and some still stand by him today.....it is beyond evil.

Ok, now for the kicker.... Lapina is on the ethics board of one of the local communities.

 

[TidesofTruth]

1.  Experience does not trump the word of God.  God gave us a manner in which to handle issues within the church.  If you have a problem with what scripture states because of an experience then I cannot help you with that. 

2.  I believe if it fails to give you the desired results then at least you obeyed God.  The rest be upon the person(s) who fail to respond to correction. 

3.  God blesses obedience to His Word regardless of the success of the result.  I would want to be on the blessed side of obedience.

4.  I hope for you and each person who found they should leave FBCH that they seek God's will for the remainder of their life and not use past hurt and/or abuse to be used as a reason to not seek God in all that they do.  I do not believe FBCH is the only nor best place for everyone.  God uses all varieties of churches large and small to accomplish His specific will.

5.  Much like a marriage, When trust has been broken and one finds it beyond repair, it is sometimes best for the mate to be put away because the grief/hurt is to much to bear.  God gave us that option in marriage although for marriage it is not desirable but allowable and I think the same can be said for disassociating oneself with a group of believers.  Although as a member of FBCH I can also say it hurts when someone leaves.  I am never angry at them.  I miss them terribly and I can speak for others I have talked to that we miss working for God together in the same sweet spirit we once did.  This is painful.  So I must urge that as much as be in you to remain together still during the hard difficult periods using all the tools that God has given us for reconciliation so that we may one day still be in the same yoke, but in all things as the Lord wills.

This is a misapplication of Scripture.  Matthew 18 or Luke 17 do not apply.  In each of these chapters Jesus is talking about brother to brother (peer relationships)  My point was that these predators love to misapply scripture for their own gain.

You cannot be reconciled to a wolf (unless you want to be lunch)

I Timothy 5:17-22 might apply here (and we did give you 2 or 3 anonymous witnesses  )

Maybe you have indoctrination issues.  The pastors are my brothers, my peers.  It absolutely applies to any situation in which you have fault.  Layman are not peons to grovel at the feet of their master pastors.  The pastors are co-laborers for Christ.


Some Reading Material.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:26-29

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.  For the body is not one member, but many.  If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?  If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.  Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:  And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.  For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
I Corinthians 12:12-31

No offense, but you are clueless.

You must not have grown up in the system.  The pastor, youth pastor and principal are the lords over the youth.  Underneath the royal three are certain teachers and preeeeeachers.  The teen has no peer to peer relationship with these leaders.  There is no recourse for the teen who is being cursed out, hazed, thrown into lockers or otherwise scorned by his leaders (Yes, it happened).  There is no recourse for the teen who listens to EL laugh and tell teen boys how cool it is to see teen girl's panties because the culottes are so blousey.  You apparently do not understand the dynamics at play in your church.

The reason we are on the forum is because we DID figure out that "Laymen are not peons to grovel at the feet of their master pastors."  This is exactly what we are trying to promote on this forum.  WE AGREE!

Now, if you really want to do some good, go to a teen boy that seems quiet.  Take him out for a nice dinner (with parent's approval) and offer to listen - and I mean really listen without any advice given.  Who knows how much heartache could have been avoided if only....  Maybe there would have been one less suicide in the FBCH teen group.

Keep posting.  You'll get it soon enough.

I won't go into my history here.  But I did grow up "in the system".  I don't need a teen boy to tell me his story.  I lived it.  I know the locker room and the school hallways quite well.  I am not clueless.    I was not the popular kid.  I suffered at the hands of many, who knows maybe even you.  But I learned much from what I endured, well not so much from what I endured but what God did for me when I forgave those who had to grow up and disciplined by God for their ways.  We are all growing in grace.  Unfortunately many have had their growth stifled and believe that everyone stopped growing and are exactly the same as hey were 35 years ago.  Hurt will do that.  It stifles growth and I have seen my share.  I just know what I did to deal with it.  Hurts that man causes others cannot be remedied by man.  Purity of a girl that has been defrauded cannot be restored.  Injury done to the Psyche of a young man who is tormented by peers and/or teachers cannot be fixed by an apology or even criminal justice.  I am surely not justifying these things and do not think human justice should not be served but it in no way fixes what happened.  There is no restorative justice at the hands of man.  When I was a young man and I was struggling with absolute hatred for some who mistreated me and a wise slightly older couple said to me, "sometimes when you are young you make some stupid mistakes that live with others for a lifetime"  I understood that.  I had made dumb mistakes myself, not that injured others but certainly dumb mistakes.  It was the first glimmer of my heart softening to allow God to start working on my heart.

I found that the same Savior who saved me also had some amazing things to further do in my life and he miraculously given me a great deal of justice and it was done for me personally.  God gave me back everything that was taken and he healed my heart.  What Satan meant for Evil God took and made for Good.  No man can tell you to forgive someone who has harmed you.  To do so just reinjures the victim.    I can only tell you that I came to the place where God worked in my heart to do so. 

I don't discount your story.  Never have.  I have seen too much.  I have lived too much.  I have also seen what God has done in my life when I gave it to Him. 

Many who read these stories combine it to their own stories and just use them to reject God.  They take your story and compound it with there story and you end up with entire internet forums of people just taking the knives out of the drawer and stabbing themselves over and over again, rehearsing their stories and your stories and quite quickly the original injury is compounded until they have completely left the faith.  I know you want to try to save people and tell them there is another way.  I don't think the internet forum writers who are doing it for this cause are having the desired effect.  Are we rescuing the perishing here or throwing them an anchor?  Just something to think about.  I believe had the internet been around when I was going through my young adulthood it would have solidified my anger to the point that the things I only fantasized and dreamt about doing to my antagonists would have perhaps played out in real life. Yes I was that angry.

I don't know maybe some find it cathartic but reading around the internet a bit for many It is NOT cathartic whatsoever.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Hate to break up this kumbaya moment.... but I gave up any hope in FBCH when they kept EL around.... I have family and many friends that attend, I enjoyed my time there as student and staff.  The fact is, the Business Manager had to be somewhat complicit in the mishandling... misappropriation...or whatever the facts are regarding the money that came from DeCoster.  As far as I know, the trail (of tears) of that money has never been fully discovered.  If anything, the Business Manager should have had control of the severe diarrhea of monies that was going unchecked.  He outright lied to the members that morning and never came out and apologized to the congregation for attempting to cover Schaap's sin.  The deacon's had their chance to come clean and start this thing right...by all resigning and starting from scratch.  I know of only one deacon that caused Schaap grief in the meetings over the years, and would not take his "I've got this" as a good answer.  I think of Schaap conducting that deacon's funeral while probably glad about his passing.....

From 2012...

I have said it before, every Bible teacher needs to be let go or reassigned...every assistant pastor needs to be let go or reassigned, every administrator that meet weekly with Schaap just needs to be dismissed. Let them cut the grass, change the oil on a bus, change lightbulbs...not belittling the men who currently do that work, but the blue-collar workers could do a better job at teaching than the over-priced bell hops they have doing it now. The scholars of FBCH/HAC cast their lot with Schaap, stood by him when he went nuts, and some still stand by him today.....it is beyond evil.

Ok, now for the kicker.... Lapina is on the ethics board of one of the local communities.

And then there is that ^

The cold hard facts hit you in the face again.  Reality check: EL is who Jude warned you about.  EL is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I still think there are kids there who need a good elder member to help them out of their situation.

 

[Fresh Air]

Hate to break up this kumbaya moment.... but I gave up any hope in FBCH when they kept EL around.... I have family and many friends that attend, I enjoyed my time there as student and staff.  The fact is, the Business Manager had to be somewhat complicit in the mishandling... misappropriation...or whatever the facts are regarding the money that came from DeCoster.  As far as I know, the trail (of tears) of that money has never been fully discovered.  If anything, the Business Manager should have had control of the severe diarrhea of monies that was going unchecked.  He outright lied to the members that morning and never came out and apologized to the congregation for attempting to cover Schaap's sin.  The deacon's had their chance to come clean and start this thing right...by all resigning and starting from scratch.  I know of only one deacon that caused Schaap grief in the meetings over the years, and would not take his "I've got this" as a good answer.  I think of Schaap conducting that deacon's funeral while probably glad about his passing.....

From 2012...

I have said it before, every Bible teacher needs to be let go or reassigned...every assistant pastor needs to be let go or reassigned, every administrator that meet weekly with Schaap just needs to be dismissed. Let them cut the grass, change the oil on a bus, change lightbulbs...not belittling the men who currently do that work, but the blue-collar workers could do a better job at teaching than the over-priced bell hops they have doing it now. The scholars of FBCH/HAC cast their lot with Schaap, stood by him when he went nuts, and some still stand by him today.....it is beyond evil.

Ok, now for the kicker.... Lapina is on the ethics board of one of the local communities.

...and until they do they won't get back the trust of the alumni. Qwerty and I are just two of a great big number that feel the same way.

 

[Fresh Air]

Many who read these stories combine it to their own stories and just use them to reject God.  They take your story and compound it with there story and you end up with entire internet forums of people just taking the knives out of the drawer and stabbing themselves over and over again, rehearsing their stories and your stories and quite quickly the original injury is compounded until they have completely left the faith.

Extremely well said.