From Just a Member

[RAIDER]

Yes! I believe there are many who feel a lie was told from the pulpit that Sunday morning in July of 2012...

Believe it or not (I know my disparaging posts will make this hard to believe), I am trying to let EL off the hook in my own mind. I am TRYING to let it go.

But he did, if memory serves, get up there and say, in a fairly rambling speech that had my antennae up -- Pastor Schaap is on vacation in Maine right now. But he is sick. Very sick, his old health issues have returned. (Prostate) He is so sick, I flew to Maine to see him. I talked to him and to Cindy for a long, long time. He works too hard. We urge him constantly to take more time off. The burden of this church is so great...He is going to take some time off. He may be off for a long time. Maybe months. We told him, however long he needs to just get better.

Of course after all this time, I really am paraphrasing. But it was like, "Ok, he is so sick he is in dire straits. But he is in a remote area of Maine where he can't be close to his doctor or his hospital. Why did ELapina have to fly there....presumably also on the church's dime....to talk to him about the fact he is sick and needs to take more time off? Did not ring true.

And, turned out to be not true at all. This is all getting rather faded in my memory, but by then didn't ELapina know about the lewd photographs being discovered? The whole Youth Conference debacle had taken place the week before. I have heard that it was not merely ELapina that flew to Maine, and that it was not for the purpose of urging the pastor to take more time off and better care for his health.

To me, then, that was a lie. It either represents a person whose own character sees no problem with lying or a person who feels the church is so important it is necessary to do anything to protect it. Either viewpoint is disturbing to me. (I feel at FBC we make an idol of The Church)

I applaud the fact, Tides of Truth, that you went to speak to ELapina on this matter. I have heard of someone else doing the same. I do not know what answer the other person was given, but he has left the church. He did say he represented many people who wanted an answer.

What I want to know is, why do we have to personally go one by one and ask him to explain what SEEMED like a bald-faced lie that has many people disturbed to this day? Why can't he get up and explain himself publically? I would be entirely satisfied if he ever once would publically (and he has had plenty of opportunities behind the microphone on the platform) explain to us why he thought it best to say what he said. I would believe him and I would accept what he had to say. But he will never publically acknowledge it, and that is disturbing to me.

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

 

[TidesofTruth]

I applaud the fact, Tides of Truth, that you went to speak to ELapina on this matter. I have heard of someone else doing the same. I do not know what answer the other person was given, but he has left the church. He did say he represented many people who wanted an answer.

What I want to know is, why do we have to personally go one by one and ask him to explain what SEEMED like a bald-faced lie that has many people disturbed to this day? Why can't he get up and explain himself publically? I would be entirely satisfied if he ever once would publically (and he has had plenty of opportunities behind the microphone on the platform) explain to us why he thought it best to say what he said. I would believe him and I would accept what he had to say. But he will never publically acknowledge it, and that is disturbing to me.

Well the Bible commands us specifically to go to them first ALONE.  That is scripture and that is what I did.  I would hope you would do the same.  It is not a matter of letting someone off.  It is a matter of being reconciled with another brother.  That is your responsibility.  He does not know you are not reconciled until you tell him.  I would encourage you to do this. 

We all need to get on the right track in this area.  We say "well if I had been in that deacon's meeting when DH was sent to Garland I would have . . ." or We say "if I had been in that deacon's meeting where  . . . I would have . . ."  And yet when we have an opportunity to do what we say we would have done we don't.  Please go to a person you have fault with and get reconciled. 

 

[TidesofTruth]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

 

[brainisengaged]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok.

FYI, we did not ALL stand. 

 

[RAIDER]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

 

[Norefund]

Absolutely.

Yes! I believe there are many who feel a lie was told from the pulpit that Sunday morning in July of 2012...

Believe it or not (I know my disparaging posts will make this hard to believe), I am trying to let EL off the hook in my own mind. I am TRYING to let it go.

But he did, if memory serves, get up there and say, in a fairly rambling speech that had my antennae up -- Pastor Schaap is on vacation in Maine right now. But he is sick. Very sick, his old health issues have returned. (Prostate) He is so sick, I flew to Maine to see him. I talked to him and to Cindy for a long, long time. He works too hard. We urge him constantly to take more time off. The burden of this church is so great...He is going to take some time off. He may be off for a long time. Maybe months. We told him, however long he needs to just get better.

Of course after all this time, I really am paraphrasing. But it was like, "Ok, he is so sick he is in dire straits. But he is in a remote area of Maine where he can't be close to his doctor or his hospital. Why did ELapina have to fly there....presumably also on the church's dime....to talk to him about the fact he is sick and needs to take more time off? Did not ring true.

And, turned out to be not true at all. This is all getting rather faded in my memory, but by then didn't ELapina know about the lewd photographs being discovered? The whole Youth Conference debacle had taken place the week before. I have heard that it was not merely ELapina that flew to Maine, and that it was not for the purpose of urging the pastor to take more time off and better care for his health.

To me, then, that was a lie. It either represents a person whose own character sees no problem with lying or a person who feels the church is so important it is necessary to do anything to protect it. Either viewpoint is disturbing to me. (I feel at FBC we make an idol of The Church)

I applaud the fact, Tides of Truth, that you went to speak to ELapina on this matter. I have heard of someone else doing the same. I do not know what answer the other person was given, but he has left the church. He did say he represented many people who wanted an answer.

What I want to know is, why do we have to personally go one by one and ask him to explain what SEEMED like a bald-faced lie that has many people disturbed to this day? Why can't he get up and explain himself publically? I would be entirely satisfied if he ever once would publically (and he has had plenty of opportunities behind the microphone on the platform) explain to us why he thought it best to say what he said. I would believe him and I would accept what he had to say. But he will never publically acknowledge it, and that is disturbing to me.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

TidesofTruth,

Welcome to the forum.  I appreciated your introductory article and appreciate the way you are conducting yourself thus far in the forum.  You seem to be a long time FBC member who really wants your church to be restored to a real NT church.  Awesome.  Your church needs you and your voice.  Some here know me personally, others just as Binaca Chugger.

Yes, I have some personal experience from nursery through HAC at your church.  Bro. Hyles was a personal friend to me.  Many of those were memories are grand, many of those are abuse from the system.  The forum provides me with an outlet and a voice.  As myself, I am not heard or heeded.  Here, I can express deep feelings and memories that otherwise would not be heard.  I believe this place is actually helping people in churches like ours begin to recognize the abuse of power in churches like FBCH and others.  I believe this place is actually helping to bring about the revival you seek in your church - despite what the leaders of the movement may proclaim.

Yes, I went to EL, then with other teens.  I told my parents.  I told JH.  Eddie remains at the helm with his cronies as associate youth pastors.  Many from his youth group have voiced displeasure with Eddie and warned that he is not innocent on this forum.  We tried the standard method, we were rejected.  Par for the course at FBCH and other like institutions. I will refrain from posting actual events.  Most of the world would laugh this behavior off as non-incidental, but at HB, we would receive a minimum 25 demerits, which would most likely result in suspension.  Guys would sit in the back of the bus absolutely irate over EL's "behavior" with their girlfriends.

For the most part, I have gone on from all of the junk that happened to me and around me in my upbringing at FBCH.  My family and I are active in our church in another state.  I will not go back to the institutions that have taught me a false form of Christianity and caused me so much hurt.  I will not go back to the institutions that allow abusive leadership to thrive.  I taken the foundations that FBCH gave me and learned how to have a Christian home and live a relationship based Christianity.

I have already put away from me those wicked people.  I am here and posting to help others who feel trapped in the system.  There IS a way out.  There IS another form of Christianity that does bring REAL peace.  Yes, it is dangerous for me to relive those feelings, emotions and experiences.  Yes, I am opening up myself again, much like any other counselor reopens himself to those he is helping.  I am quite familiar with spiritual warfare - more so than I care to discuss on a forum, so we will just speak about the excellency of Christ and point people to Him.  I know that as many posts that I make, I may not always present the proper attitude in every post.  Still, my goal is to help people see that there IS an alternative.

You came to this forum for much the same reason.  Choose to listen to the experience of an anonymous poster or choose to think that I have chugged to much Binaca. 

 

[RAIDER]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

That was probably a poor word for me to use.    Schaap's inability to take criticism has been pointed out on the FFF for quite some time.  When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

So, ToT, you are a long time staff member who really cares.  From your posts, you sound like one of "the good ones."  A staff member who understands that something is wrong, and wants to do right.  Your ability to speak with EL directly means that you are a high ranking staff member.  Thus, you know me.  You watched me grow up.  Still, you are an absolute defender of perpetrators.  I spoke recently with another like the you is described.  I pointed out that he agreed with me in every point, yet, because the offender is his superior, he will not recognize the flaws.  You really seem to be searching for your church to return to a real, NT church.  If it will happen, there must be a turn over of many philosophies and the people who promoted and permitted them.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better. 
I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

So, ToT, you are a long time staff member who really cares.  From your posts, you sound like one of "the good ones."  A staff member who understands that something is wrong, and wants to do right.  Your ability to speak with EL directly means that you are a high ranking staff member.  Thus, you know me.  You watched me grow up.  Still, you are an absolute defender of perpetrators.  I spoke recently with another like the you is described.  I pointed out that he agreed with me in every point, yet, because the offender is his superior, he will not recognize the flaws.  You really seem to be searching for your church to return to a real, NT church.  If it will happen, there must be a turn over of many philosophies and the people who promoted and permitted them.

Uh uh.  Not a staff member.  Not a deacon.  My first post on this thread made that clear.

Nothing prevents me from stating exactly what I think to whomever I choose except the Holy Spirit including pastor John Wilkerson.  I have no financial ties nor do I have any children in the schools that could be retaliated against.  I am free to do and say as I wish but I must be spirit controlled.

 

[brainisengaged]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.  Nothing prevents me from stating exactly what I think to whomever I choose except the Holy Spirit including pastor John Wilkerson.  I have no financial ties nor do I have any children in the schools that could be retaliated against.  I am free to do and say as I wish but I must be spirit controlled.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

So, ToT, you are a long time staff member who really cares.  From your posts, you sound like one of "the good ones."  A staff member who understands that something is wrong, and wants to do right.  Your ability to speak with EL directly means that you are a high ranking staff member.  Thus, you know me.  You watched me grow up.  Still, you are an absolute defender of perpetrators.  I spoke recently with another like the you is described.  I pointed out that he agreed with me in every point, yet, because the offender is his superior, he will not recognize the flaws.  You really seem to be searching for your church to return to a real, NT church.  If it will happen, there must be a turn over of many philosophies and the people who promoted and permitted them.

Uh uh.  Not a staff member.  Not a deacon.  My first post on this thread made that clear.

Sorry.  I forgot that.  There are very few members who have that kind of access to EL.  Please remember that the vast majority of your church must schedule an appointment for months out in order to have a brief conversation with someone on EL's tier (unless things have changed).  Most of your members will never be able to have that appointment you ask them to make.

 

[TidesofTruth]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

Now you know.  Now you know what to watch for.  James 3 tells us of what a man with an unbridled tongue is.  We as members cannot sit passively by and just listen to the sermon and go home and go on with our lives.  We must be engaged with what is being preached.  We must be bereans.  We must prove all things.  The word of God and its study will purify your heart and you must now place everything in light of scripture comparing spiritual with spiritual. 

It is necessary.  Past wrongs done to you including deceits by our former pastor can make you jaded and throw off your trust.  Trust will be developed by comparing everything with scripture.  Trust but verify.  And when you find fault go to them. 

 

[TidesofTruth]

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.  Nothing prevents me from stating exactly what I think to whomever I choose except the Holy Spirit including pastor John Wilkerson.  I have no financial ties nor do I have any children in the schools that could be retaliated against.  I am free to do and say as I wish but I must be spirit controlled.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

I was not there, but I doubt EL did anything wrong during the transition.  He probably did a very smooth job.  The problem is not with the transition.  The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

Allowed is a funny term if you knew Schaap.  We talked about that also.  I will not go into that.  It was a private conversation that I do not wish to divulge.  But again go to him yourself in person if you want to talk to him about it.

So, ToT, you are a long time staff member who really cares.  From your posts, you sound like one of "the good ones."  A staff member who understands that something is wrong, and wants to do right.  Your ability to speak with EL directly means that you are a high ranking staff member.  Thus, you know me.  You watched me grow up.  Still, you are an absolute defender of perpetrators.  I spoke recently with another like the you is described.  I pointed out that he agreed with me in every point, yet, because the offender is his superior, he will not recognize the flaws.  You really seem to be searching for your church to return to a real, NT church.  If it will happen, there must be a turn over of many philosophies and the people who promoted and permitted them.

Uh uh.  Not a staff member.  Not a deacon.  My first post on this thread made that clear.

Sorry.  I forgot that.  There are very few members who have that kind of access to EL.  Please remember that the vast majority of your church must schedule an appointment for months out in order to have a brief conversation with someone on EL's tier (unless things have changed).  Most of your members will never be able to have that appointment you ask them to make.

Things have changed significantly - including the senior pastor role.  This pastor will come to your house for dinner or an event.  He encourages all pastoral staff to get into people's homes and have dinner.  It is far different than it was.  It has some ways to go as God is perfecting his church but things are moving in the right direction.

 

[BALAAM]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people were introduced to js's vile, and I mean vile, tongue and personality. I doubt that there is a devil in hell who used more vulgar language and this was a pastor of a church! An IFB church! And, all of the school principals heard this junk. I have a hard time Mr. Ed didn't. Of course they would kick a student out of school for this kind of behavior, but the pastor; He is immune.

Sorry but I will never get over the duplicity of this junk! I can no longer take anything that they say seriously. Sermons, revivals, big name speakers, it doesn't matter to me. It is mostly all baloney.

 

[16KJV11]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people were introduced to js's vile, and I mean vile, tongue and personality. I doubt that there is a devil in hell who used more vulgar language and this was a pastor of a church! An IFB church! And, all of the school principals heard this junk. I have a hard time Mr. Ed didn't. Of course they would kick a student out of school for this kind of behavior, but the pastor; He is immune.

Sorry but I will never get over the duplicity of this junk! I can no longer take anything that they say seriously. Sermons, revivals, big name speakers, it doesn't matter to me. It is mostly all baloney.

Hey come to our church, we're small time everything...Even the preacher is short.

 

[BALAAM]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people were introduced to js's vile, and I mean vile, tongue and personality. I doubt that there is a devil in hell who used more vulgar language and this was a pastor of a church! An IFB church! And, all of the school principals heard this junk. I have a hard time Mr. Ed didn't. Of course they would kick a student out of school for this kind of behavior, but the pastor; He is immune.

Sorry but I will never get over the duplicity of this junk! I can no longer take anything that they say seriously. Sermons, revivals, big name speakers, it doesn't matter to me. It is mostly all baloney.

Hey come to our church, we're small time everything...Even the preacher is short.

You kill me kj16v! I would love to meet you! But, I am nowhere near Pennsylvania.

 

[Fresh Air]

All statements are paraphrases and impressions of questions and answers because I did not record him.
The Question:  Was the announcement of Jack Schaap being sick and subsequent sabbatical a coverup for his sexual sin.  Was it to buy time to figure out a course of action.  What did you know and when did you know it.

Answer:  Jack Schaap stated that he was "sick".  (me: We do know that to be what he stated in his answer to the courts) There was a photo found on his phone that was explained away by Jack Schaap that was inappropriate  but was not to the level of fornication.  On Sunday they had that picture, that excuse and an agreement of a sabbatical for health reasons.  (No detail on the health reasons were given to me.  But later stated in Schaap's brief)  The sabbatical was agreed to be for health reasons.  That was what was told to the church because that was what was agreed to.  It wasn't until the following day that the rest of the evidence was fully known. 

I would not expect with the picture that they had that he would get up on Sunday Morning and said "We have caught Jack Schaap in Fornication and we have terminated his employment".  It just wouldn't hold water at that time.  They did give him an out until they had more evidence of a health sabbatical.  I have no problem with that if you are in the middle of investigating something and not all the facts are in.  It would not be appropriate to go off half cocked with limited data and ruin a testimony until you had your case to present.  In my mind I believe they handled this quite well.  That is what I have come to as conclusion. 

He told me the same thing.

 

[Fresh Air]

The problem is with what EL stood by and allowed Schaap to do for several years.

...and a hearty Amen from north west Chicago