From Just a Member

[Bravo]

All statements are paraphrases and impressions of questions and answers because I did not record him.
The Question:  Was the announcement of Jack Schaap being sick and subsequent sabbatical a coverup for his sexual sin.  Was it to buy time to figure out a course of action.  What did you know and when did you know it.

Answer:  Jack Schaap stated that he was "sick".  (me: We do know that to be what he stated in his answer to the courts) There was a photo found on his phone that was explained away by Jack Schaap that was inappropriate  but was not to the level of fornication.  On Sunday they had that picture, that excuse and an agreement of a sabbatical for health reasons.  (No detail on the health reasons were given to me.  But later stated in Schaap's brief)  The sabbatical was agreed to be for health reasons.  That was what was told to the church because that was what was agreed to.  It wasn't until the following day that the rest of the evidence was fully known. 

I would not expect with the picture that they had that he would get up on Sunday Morning and said "We have caught Jack Schaap in Fornication and we have terminated his employment".  It just wouldn't hold water at that time.  They did give him an out until they had more evidence of a health sabbatical.  I have no problem with that if you are in the middle of investigating something and not all the facts are in.  It would not be appropriate to go off half cocked with limited data and ruin a testimony until you had your case to present.  In my mind I believe they handled this quite well.  That is what I have come to as conclusion. 

He told me the same thing.

Here's the thing,... Why would two or three people fly out to Maine over a picture that wasn't all that bad? Why was Jack Schaap not speaking the last night of YC if it wasn't all that bad? When Eddie got up that Sunday morning and stood behind the pulpit it was a bit surreal. He rambled for quite a while,... And rambled is the kindest description I would give it. Paraphrasing from memory, Pastor Schaap has health issues,... It is not cancer (If I remember this part right) as some rumors are going (What?!? What cancer rumors?) He is worn out, please don't call him or text him (What?!?) I spoke to him for 3.5 hours yesterday (What?!? I thought he was worn out and needing rest?) Then the talk of his health sabbatical to prolong or preserve his ministry. As those that were there can attest he circled two or three times with this same information. I knew right then we were being lied to although I wasn't sure what about at that moment. Part of the insult of it all was that he wasn't really good at it. That was an attempt at a cover up, no one can say differently. I have been told, "They had to say something." No they didn't! If nothing was known, and that has already been disproven, then say nothing! Ultimately it all came out somehow on the web the next day. Eddie is a liar, period.

Oddly enough at the same time the whole Jeff Owens thing was happening. I told a staff friend about a post about Jeff Owens resigning. He said sound like more was going on. I agreed that my BS meter was alarming,.... As it had Sunday morning with Eddie,... He confirmed something had happened here at FBC as well.

The following Wednesday with Gibbs was such an odd service. A lot of applauding, almost back slapping for ousting Schaap etc. Gibbs then placed Eddie in charge if the rumors were true that was not the plan but who knows anymore? I just remember all the applauding, it got old quick, it was out of place, it was inappropriate. The weeks following had plenty of "Trust the leadership" type stuff from Eddie,... That was not about to happen from me, and several others it seems as I read here.

These were things that were  circulating about that general time,... I had heard that Schaap was marginalizing Eddie in his last few months. Eddie wanted the other assistant pastors who were ministry leaders to answer to him. That didn't fly with those guys at all because Eddie never ran an out reach ministry himself. There's more but I'll leave it at that.

As another poster stated we didn't all applaud Eddie. We didn't all put money towards his trip to Hawaii. No way was I going to be a part of that. I stood there, arms at my side, in disbelief that Eddie had won a trip to Hawaii from all that had happened.

One thing I have not heard addressed. Schaap had security guards around him all the time. How is it they did not know anything or see anything? Ever? At all?

 

[Sherryh]

Has any one ever talked to Eddie L one on one with your questions? Or take 2 people asking questions?

Does Pastor W know these things?

 

[groupie]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people were introduced to js's vile, and I mean vile, tongue and personality. I doubt that there is a devil in hell who used more vulgar language and this was a pastor of a church! An IFB church! And, all of the school principals heard this junk. I have a hard time Mr. Ed didn't. Of course they would kick a student out of school for this kind of behavior, but the pastor; He is immune.

Sorry but I will never get over the duplicity of this junk! I can no longer take anything that they say seriously. Sermons, revivals, big name speakers, it doesn't matter to me. It is mostly all baloney.

He used a range of screaming curse words at me, including the "F" word. I told family and staff about it and they became enraged and told me I was attacking and lying about the man of God. Some of those people I went to told me that they wanted nothing to do with an attacker of God's man and to depart from them. Since, Schaap's crash, two of those people have told me his was famous for that and more and the staff had a nickname for him - The Bobby Knight of Fundamentalism. I reminded them about them telling my I was attacking the man of God and they just looked at me and offered not a peep of an apology.

 

[groupie]

>Pew members and staff alike who viciously shunned anyone who tried to voice their insight as to the fact there was something wrong in Camelot are guilty.

I think there is a lot for which to apologize, and I think the letterwriter felt the same inclination. Since some of these things were never properly acknowledged or addressed, they are starting to happen again.

I was and never have been apologized to and that hurts the most. One person recently inquired whether I apologized to "so and so" for my actions back then. I had done so profusely and always do when I hurt someone. That has never been reciprocated from people at FBC. When I was hurt or treated badly, I was told to like it or lump it, suck it up, be a man, pull my boot straps up, quit being sensitive, be thick skinned etc.

 

[groupie]

Answer:  Jack Schaap stated that he was "sick".  (me: We do know that to be what he stated in his answer to the courts) There was a photo found on his phone that was explained away by Jack Schaap that was inappropriate  but was not to the level of fornication.  On Sunday they had that picture, that excuse and an agreement of a sabbatical for health reasons.  (No detail on the health reasons were given to me.  But later stated in Schaap's brief)  The sabbatical was agreed to be for health reasons.  That was what was told to the church because that was what was agreed to.  It wasn't until the following day that the rest of the evidence was fully known. 

I would not expect with the picture that they had that he would get up on Sunday Morning and said "We have caught Jack Schaap in Fornication and we have terminated his employment".  It just wouldn't hold water at that time.  They did give him an out until they had more evidence of a health sabbatical.  I have no problem with that if you are in the middle of investigating something and not all the facts are in.  It would not be appropriate to go off half cocked with limited data and ruin a testimony until you had your case to present.

An inappropriate photo with a teenage girl is fornication. Fornication is not just a physical act, it can occur a man's mind. Would you want your pastor looking at porn on Saturday night and teaching you on Sunday? Would you want your pastor lusting after your wife or women in church in his mind and then bringing you a message a few minutes later?

 

[16KJV11]

When Schaap began to do all the craziness there needed to be someone with some authority that stood up for right. 

The only problem there is that we'd been desensitized for so many, many years. It is SO hard to understand, looking back with the clearer vision of hindsight, how we could have stood for so many things we stood for... like when I went to see JS with a troubled teen I was mentoring (at his request) who had made another mistake, and I just sat on the couch as he reamed her out and used vile language and became a fierce, hard, nasty accuser to her. How could I just sit there? He apologized, strangely, saying to her, "I am so sorry that a godly woman like ________________ has to hear this..." which was basically blaming the girl for how he 'had' to speak to her. I just swallowed it (albeit I was in shock because I'd never witnessed nor known of his 'other' side) because he was the Man of God. If God was telling the Man of God that this was how this teen needed to be talked to, then so be it! I bow to his wisdom, his superiority, and just as God's ways are above my ways, my Pastor's ways must also be above my ways.

It's a little like immersing oneself ever so gradually in a pool of boiling water. You get acclimated to it. It doesn't seem so hot anymore...

De-programming, de-briefing is taking years in my case. I think many of us look back and scratch our heads, wondering how we allowed so very much to just go on, as if it was ok.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people were introduced to js's vile, and I mean vile, tongue and personality. I doubt that there is a devil in hell who used more vulgar language and this was a pastor of a church! An IFB church! And, all of the school principals heard this junk. I have a hard time Mr. Ed didn't. Of course they would kick a student out of school for this kind of behavior, but the pastor; He is immune.

Sorry but I will never get over the duplicity of this junk! I can no longer take anything that they say seriously. Sermons, revivals, big name speakers, it doesn't matter to me. It is mostly all baloney.

Hey come to our church, we're small time everything...Even the preacher is short.

You kill me kj16v! I would love to meet you! But, I am nowhere near Pennsylvania.

Heh heh... I have cue cards at my pulpit which say: Laugh, applause, amen.  We're the frozen chosen here in the Burgh.  I have to act like Flip Wilson to get a holy grunt out of anyone!

 

[brainisengaged]

From Bravo: Here's the thing,... Why would two or three people fly out to Maine over a picture that wasn't all that bad? Why was Jack Schaap not speaking the last night of YC if it wasn't all that bad? When Eddie got up that Sunday morning and stood behind the pulpit it was a bit surreal. He rambled for quite a while,... And rambled is the kindest description I would give it. Paraphrasing from memory, Pastor Schaap has health issues,... It is not cancer (If I remember this part right) as some rumors are going (What?!? What cancer rumors?) He is worn out, please don't call him or text him (What?!?) I spoke to him for 3.5 hours yesterday (What?!? I thought he was worn out and needing rest?) Then the talk of his health sabbatical to prolong or preserve his ministry. As those that were there can attest he circled two or three times with this same information. I knew right then we were being lied to although I wasn't sure what about at that moment. Part of the insult of it all was that he wasn't really good at it. That was an attempt at a cover up, no one can say differently. I have been told, "They had to say something." No they didn't! If nothing was known, and that has already been disproven, then say nothing! Ultimately it all came out somehow on the web the next day. Eddie is a liar, period.

Oddly enough at the same time the whole Jeff Owens thing was happening. I told a staff friend about a post about Jeff Owens resigning. He said sound like more was going on. I agreed that my BS meter was alarming,.... As it had Sunday morning with Eddie,... He confirmed something had happened here at FBC as well.

The following Wednesday with Gibbs was such an odd service. A lot of applauding, almost back slapping for ousting Schaap etc. Gibbs then placed Eddie in charge if the rumors were true that was not the plan but who knows anymore? I just remember all the applauding, it got old quick, it was out of place, it was inappropriate. The weeks following had plenty of "Trust the leadership" type stuff from Eddie,... That was not about to happen from me, and several others it seems as I read here.

These were things that were  circulating about that general time,... I had heard that Schaap was marginalizing Eddie in his last few months. Eddie wanted the other assistant pastors who were ministry leaders to answer to him. That didn't fly with those guys at all because Eddie never ran an out reach ministry himself. There's more but I'll leave it at that.

As another poster stated we didn't all applaud Eddie. We didn't all put money towards his trip to Hawaii. No way was I going to be a part of that. I stood there, arms at my side, in disbelief that Eddie had won a trip to Hawaii from all that had happened.

One thing I have not heard addressed. Schaap had security guards around him all the time. How is it they did not know anything or see anything? Ever? At all?

Those were SUCH confusing times, right at the first. I remember being angry I had to learn the truth from the NEWSPAPER on Tuesday, after ELapina's odd and rambling announcement on Sunday morning. I was so crushed and sick about it. To have to go through the work day was so hard. Everyone who saw me knew something was wrong, and since it was in the PAPER, I thought it best to tell them what was wrong. The shame and humiliation...and the feeling of "Here we go again," because the scandals of the 80's were also humiliating.

That was Tuesday. I craved the Wednesday service. The "family" would get together. We would talk, we would mourn, we would comfort. We would just "be". We would hear the truth of what had happened, we would regroup and figure out what to do from here. But no, the rumor mill started circulating that David Gibbs was going to conduct the service. Why? Why? Why? What an affront to hurting members. Let's bring in a Slick Willie who will smooth it all over and unruffle our ruffled feathers. Let's make the VERY FIRST gathering of the church in the wake of the scandal to be all about putting the best possible face forward to THE PUBLIC. Never mind the members, they can be 'rolled over' by the great big Mr. Gibbs. He knows how to handle 'em.

I agree so much with you, Bravo. I am still angry about that Wednesday night, when I think about it. I try not to think about it! I posted this about it on another thread, when someone mentioned lawyers in the church:

"I know that what nearly sent me through the roof after the JS scandal broke was that David Gibbs conducted our first Wednesday night Spin Session. Laughing one minute, maudlin the next...controlling the situation and 'interpreting' it for us....it made me livid. That was Missed Opportunity #2 for truth, honesty, and godliness."

(Missed Opportunity #1 would have been the famous Sunday morning ramble of ELapina. I agree with you, Bravo, in that it would have been infinitely better for him to have simply said nothing. By then we were completely used to the idea that the Schaap family took luxurious vacations after every exhausting conference. It would have seemed normal and no one would have thought twice about it.)

I remember vaguely wondering who got to decide that ELapina was to be the new pastor. I remember thinking, shouldn't we at least have voted on that?

And I also agree, Bravo, that ELapina has ONE theme upon which he bases every 'sermon'. BE LOYAL. You could summarize his sermon repertoire as follows: This is a great church. Be loyal to it. We have great staff. Be loyal to them. Always obey your leaders, no matter what. They might not be right, but they are your leaders. Obey them.

I loved when Jim Binney made a statement in his Wednesday night sermon, about a month it to it, that nowhere in the Bible could he find the word "loyal". I did inwardly cheer for that one.

At first the tenor of ELapina's sermons was manipulative and condescending. It was SO hard to go and hear him each week. And the snaky way he tried to twist people's arms to get them to walk the aisle....ugh, just made me dig my heels in. I can see how the teens get rebellious, since they are treated that way all the time.  Yet the lemmings still walked out of every service saying, "Greatest sermon I've ever heard" and posting it all over facebook...

Good post, Bravo.

CONFIDENTIAL TO GROUPIE: There are many who are waiting for and will never receive an apology or even an acknowledgement that perhaps they were wronged. If it helps at all, please accept MY apology that it happened that way for you. I am sorry!

 

[bgwilkinson]

From Bravo: Here's the thing,... Why would two or three people fly out to Maine over a picture that wasn't all that bad? Why was Jack Schaap not speaking the last night of YC if it wasn't all that bad? When Eddie got up that Sunday morning and stood behind the pulpit it was a bit surreal. He rambled for quite a while,... And rambled is the kindest description I would give it. Paraphrasing from memory, Pastor Schaap has health issues,... It is not cancer (If I remember this part right) as some rumors are going (What?!? What cancer rumors?) He is worn out, please don't call him or text him (What?!?) I spoke to him for 3.5 hours yesterday (What?!? I thought he was worn out and needing rest?) Then the talk of his health sabbatical to prolong or preserve his ministry. As those that were there can attest he circled two or three times with this same information. I knew right then we were being lied to although I wasn't sure what about at that moment. Part of the insult of it all was that he wasn't really good at it. That was an attempt at a cover up, no one can say differently. I have been told, "They had to say something." No they didn't! If nothing was known, and that has already been disproven, then say nothing! Ultimately it all came out somehow on the web the next day. Eddie is a liar, period.

Oddly enough at the same time the whole Jeff Owens thing was happening. I told a staff friend about a post about Jeff Owens resigning. He said sound like more was going on. I agreed that my BS meter was alarming,.... As it had Sunday morning with Eddie,... He confirmed something had happened here at FBC as well.

The following Wednesday with Gibbs was such an odd service. A lot of applauding, almost back slapping for ousting Schaap etc. Gibbs then placed Eddie in charge if the rumors were true that was not the plan but who knows anymore? I just remember all the applauding, it got old quick, it was out of place, it was inappropriate. The weeks following had plenty of "Trust the leadership" type stuff from Eddie,... That was not about to happen from me, and several others it seems as I read here.

These were things that were  circulating about that general time,... I had heard that Schaap was marginalizing Eddie in his last few months. Eddie wanted the other assistant pastors who were ministry leaders to answer to him. That didn't fly with those guys at all because Eddie never ran an out reach ministry himself. There's more but I'll leave it at that.

As another poster stated we didn't all applaud Eddie. We didn't all put money towards his trip to Hawaii. No way was I going to be a part of that. I stood there, arms at my side, in disbelief that Eddie had won a trip to Hawaii from all that had happened.

One thing I have not heard addressed. Schaap had security guards around him all the time. How is it they did not know anything or see anything? Ever? At all?

Those were SUCH confusing times, right at the first. I remember being angry I had to learn the truth from the NEWSPAPER on Tuesday, after ELapina's odd and rambling announcement on Sunday morning. I was so crushed and sick about it. To have to go through the work day was so hard. Everyone who saw me knew something was wrong, and since it was in the PAPER, I thought it best to tell them what was wrong. The shame and humiliation...and the feeling of "Here we go again," because the scandals of the 80's were also humiliating.

That was Tuesday. I craved the Wednesday service. The "family" would get together. We would talk, we would mourn, we would comfort. We would just "be". We would hear the truth of what had happened, we would regroup and figure out what to do from here. But no, the rumor mill started circulating that David Gibbs was going to conduct the service. Why? Why? Why? What an affront to hurting members. Let's bring in a Slick Willie who will smooth it all over and unruffle our ruffled feathers. Let's make the VERY FIRST gathering of the church in the wake of the scandal to be all about putting the best possible face forward to THE PUBLIC. Never mind the members, they can be 'rolled over' by the great big Mr. Gibbs. He knows how to handle 'em.

I agree so much with you, Bravo. I am still angry about that Wednesday night, when I think about it. I try not to think about it! I posted this about it on another thread, when someone mentioned lawyers in the church:

"I know that what nearly sent me through the roof after the JS scandal broke was that David Gibbs conducted our first Wednesday night Spin Session. Laughing one minute, maudlin the next...controlling the situation and 'interpreting' it for us....it made me livid. That was Missed Opportunity #2 for truth, honesty, and godliness."

(Missed Opportunity #1 would have been the famous Sunday morning ramble of ELapina. I agree with you, Bravo, in that it would have been infinitely better for him to have simply said nothing. By then we were completely used to the idea that the Schaap family took luxurious vacations after every exhausting conference. It would have seemed normal and no one would have thought twice about it.)

I remember vaguely wondering who got to decide that ELapina was to be the new pastor. I remember thinking, shouldn't we at least have voted on that?

And I also agree, Bravo, that ELapina has ONE theme upon which he bases every 'sermon'. BE LOYAL. You could summarize his sermon repertoire as follows: This is a great church. Be loyal to it. We have great staff. Be loyal to them. Always obey your leaders, no matter what. They might not be right, but they are your leaders. Obey them.

I loved when Jim Binney made a statement in his Wednesday night sermon, about a month it to it, that nowhere in the Bible could he find the word "loyal". I did inwardly cheer for that one.

At first the tenor of ELapina's sermons was manipulative and condescending. It was SO hard to go and hear him each week. And the snaky way he tried to twist people's arms to get them to walk the aisle....ugh, just made me dig my heels in. I can see how the teens get rebellious, since they are treated that way all the time.  Yet the lemmings still walked out of every service saying, "Greatest sermon I've ever heard" and posting it all over facebook...

Good post, Bravo.

CONFIDENTIAL TO GROUPIE: There are many who are waiting for and will never receive an apology or even an acknowledgement that perhaps they were wronged. If it helps at all, please accept MY apology that it happened that way for you. I am sorry!

People praising a man for delivering a sermon instead of the God Man Christ Jesus illustrates the problem perfectly.

 

[groupie]

Thank you for that.

Sadly, every time I post something here about JS or some injustice I experienced, I get a twinge in my stomach thinking I am gonna be struck blind for bad mouthing the "man of God." I have actually posted an even worse story on here that I deleted. It was how JS pulled some junk on me that devastated me and ruined my marriage because of the lies he spewed out of his mouth with his ungodly counsel.

A few years after I left FBC, I ended up meeting with JS and he said all sorts of kind words to me and even praised me - he even gave me the token "I love you doc". I thought all was mended between us until I found out the next day he sent off a three page letter to my new pastor ripping me to shreds and making me look like the devil himself.

Fortunately, I have a pastor that loves me and is real and he disregarded all the lies in that letter. I figured he would b e done with me too. I thank God for his love, or I might be out of church totally slumped over in a bar somewhere.

 

[Sherryh]

groupie, I'm sorry that happened to you but please don't even think about the bar scene........

 

[groupie]

groupie, I'm sorry that happened to you but please don't even think about the bar scene........

Not happening. 

 

[Sherryh]

Excellent

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

 

[TidesofTruth]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

 

[16KJV11]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

Ra ro Raggy...

 

[Bravo]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

Eddie didn't trespass against "me". He abused his position of trust as a leader in the church.
Jeremiah 23:1&2
[1] Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord .
[2] Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord .

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

To any who maintain blind loyalty.

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Hey, EL was given a standing ovation by David Gibbs and the people of FBCH for the fine job he did during the transition.  Surely that makes everything ok. 

Did he do a bad job during the transition?  Please state what he did wrong and could have done better.

I think he found it a tremendous difficult and humbling time.  I think he learned much from it.

This coupled with your satisfaction for his statements to the church seemed to portray the concept that you believe he is a rather fine fellow. 

I used some sarcasm.  Sarcasm is a frequent part of the forum - we often laugh at ourselves and the HACker.  Welcome to the forum. 

Deceit?  Not sure what you mean by that.  The Loyalist will continue to wear the 100% button, even in the face of obvious flaws.  Many have voiced opinions that EL was dishonest, allowed heresy and sin at the helm of the church to go unchecked, and was "inappropriate" (not sure what the right word is, this may be a poor way to summarize) with teens.  These, of course, are accusations made by anonymous posters on the internet.  My question was simple: Does the Loyalist still wear the 100% button?  Or, have all of us here chugged to much Binaca?

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

Yep.  Review my previous post.  As a teen, I tried talking to him.  Other guys tried talking to him.  I went to my parents.  I went to Bro. Hyles.  No change.  He never repented.  I was just a punk teen, how dare I speak so against him?  So, according to Scripture, I view EL as a heathen man and a publican who is at least in the Captain's Quarters of the church - not the barber shop (though that place did have some pretty cool fish).

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

Eddie didn't trespass against "me". He abused his position of trust as a leader in the church.
Jeremiah 23:1&2
[1] Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord .
[2] Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord .

ouch.  That's gonna leave a mark.

 

[brainisengaged]

From Bravo: Eddie didn't trespass against "me". He abused his position of trust as a leader in the church.

My husband said much the same when I discussed this matter / thread with him.

 

[Timotheus]

Well Mr. Loyal,

Still think your Eddie Lapina is a great servant of God?  You have now read the feelings of many and accounts of many.  Do you still think he was a great man?

Are you talking to me?

Setting up a straw man through deceit?  Show me one place where I stated these things.  I don't take kindly to those who put words in my mouth.

Please review exactly what I said.  I gave scripture to back up what I did say.  If you are not practicing Matthew 18 and Luke 17 in obedience to God then you really have no standing in blaming anyone who doesn't practice church discipline when you will not do it yourself.  You are guilty of the same complacency as you accuse the deacons and every staff member of.  Obey God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.  Matthew 18:15-17

From my experience, these leaders love a Matthew 18 type of meeting.  They get to hear what you know so that they can plan their next move.  They usually will preach a sermon on loyalty or forgiveness, or they will start false accusations behind your back about how you are not right with God and you are probably bitter.

They don't have much originality, but they are good at convincing people that Matthew 18 (the way to handle a wrong between two equals) is the way to handle these things. 

These guys are predators (Wolves)  They know how to use your good heart against you.  We were taught at FBC how to be careful of the world and the people out there who would take advantage of us and try to destroy us, but never how to watch out for the smooth talking, "godly" leadership.