Freedom as a Pastor

[Tarheel Baptist]

Our church just spent the better part of a year examining and learning about he ins and outs of the SBC.

No where in Scripture, iincluding 1 Timothy, is this allowed. It wastes time and defrauds your sheep. God commanded the Sheep be protected from exactly what you are infiltrating your church with.

You are misinformed. The SBC has NO requirement as to how much you give to the co-operative program.

I never stated it did.

We give 1% or less of our annual budget to the SBC...but in the 9 months since we joined,we've had no less than 5 consultants visit our church to help us, at no cost to us. Our Pastors have also attended 7 different conferences and workshops, at no cost to us.

  1% is too much. & that's a huge amout of SBC indoctrination.

At he last IFB meeting I went to, I was taught that we need a choir, hymn books, only the KJV and a good coulotte pattern to build a good soul winning church. I'm using some hyperbole, but those are the points

Yes, that's heresy. But you must not repeat the cycle. We are not talking about whether alcohol is permisable or whether to have a Choir w/Hymbooks.  You are actively opposing GOD. Dragging others to their demise. A Christian doesn't partner with the unsaved upon spiritual matters or guidance. The Great Commission was given TO THE LOCAL Church. It is implemented while under local church oversight.

That was really when I decided to begin to prayerfully move our church away from that idiocy.NOT that all IFBs are that way....but sadly, most are.

Prayerfully moving your church from one cesspool to another doesn't result in salvation. It only wastes precious time. Hopefully I've been gentle enough that when you are saved, I can be allowed to rejoice with you. And support you as you introduce the truth to the Sheep. How exciting that could be! What a great place you are in. I'll be praying. Blessings and strength to you.

Do you hear the Twilight Zone Theme playing in the background when you post?
If not, you should.....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I can confirm that the people you talked to were wrong!
Our church joined the SBC last fall after 31 years as IFB.
Our Pastors were ALREADY in Guidestone as IFBs.
The only thing that changed is that now the SBC makes a matching contribution to our accounts.

Many IFB Pastors are in the SBC retirement program.

This is just what I was told.  It sounds great to begin with, but once there is disagreement, you are in a bind.  Sure, you could withdraw membership, but your budget and building payments are reliant upon that matching contribution.  Hence, when you leave the denomination, you leave your buildings also.  Also, once you leave the denomination, you abandon your retirement.

What this does is to effectively allow the SBC's denominational board and its consultants to control the direction of the church, rather than the local congregation and its pastor.

I think you misunderstand what the contribution is....it is to my personal retirement plan...nothing to do with our church. And I think the matching contribution comes from the State SBC...which is where we send our contributions.
My retirement plan with the SNC is mine....it is the same plan I had when I was an IFB. Many, many IFB Pastors are in the SBC plan...Guidestone. You don't have to be SBC to be in the program. It has NOTHING to do with the church, church buildings, church program or church affiliation.

I know you are honest and earnest, but you have been given some very bogus information. I know because we looked into some of these SBC urban legends before we affiliated with the SBC.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I can confirm that the people you talked to were wrong!
Our church joined the SBC last fall after 31 years as IFB.
Our Pastors were ALREADY in Guidestone as IFBs.
The only thing that changed is that now the SBC makes a matching contribution to our accounts.

Many IFB Pastors are in the SBC retirement program.

This is just what I was told.  It sounds great to begin with, but once there is disagreement, you are in a bind.  Sure, you could withdraw membership, but your budget and building payments are reliant upon that matching contribution.  Hence, when you leave the denomination, you leave your buildings also.  Also, once you leave the denomination, you abandon your retirement.

What this does is to effectively allow the SBC's denominational board and its consultants to control the direction of the church, rather than the local congregation and its pastor.

I think you misunderstand what the contribution is....it is to my personal retirement plan...nothing to do with our church. And I think the matching contribution comes from the State SBC...which is where we send our contributions.
My retirement plan with the SNC is mine....it is the same plan I had when I was an IFB. Many, many IFB Pastors are in the SBC plan...Guidestone. You don't have to be SBC to be in the program. It has NOTHING to do with the church, church buildings, church program or church affiliation.

I know you are honest and earnest, but you have been given some very bogus information. I know because we looked into some of these SBC urban legends before we affiliated with the SBC.

Interesting.

I would think I would still have trouble joining in with a group that has so many doctrinal differences, as another posted earlier.

What then is the advantage of joining?

 

[prophet]

I'm not trying to get a stick started, just wandering if anyone had the same experience.

Sometime ago a friend that asked me how was my experience going back into a SBC church to pastor. I simply told him that I was more free as a SBC pastor than as an independent Baptist pastor to be and do as I believe God wanted me to do. He looked at me very strange and asked how's that?

I told him that I did not have to financially support anything that I did not want to support, had no one trying to tell me who to have come preach (and did not have to worry that any of my sbc pastor friends would call me either), I don't have to worry about anyone writing me up in a "Christian" newspaper and calling me a liberal (unless it is for pastoring an sbc church), I don't have to worry about being shunned at a pastor's fellowship, have been more encouraged than ever to be faithful to preach the would of God expositionally, to loving lead God's people, and believe that the work of God is God's business I just get to participate in obedience and faith.

Has anyone else had this experience, or am I just blessed.

Please note: I did not write this post to bash my Independent pastor friends. There are many great and Godly men that pastor Independent Baptist churches. In fact I still preach for and have them preach for me. This may shock you, but when I went back into the sbc, the very first words I heard from convention leadership was- "We are all independent Baptist churches that choose to cooperate on some level."
I'm not loyal to Nashville, Greenville, Pensacola, Lancaster, Hammond or Rome- Just Jesus!

I think your post is indicative of the way "Independent" Fundamental Baptists operate.  When I was one, I was under scrutiny.  I was told once at a preacher's fellowship that if I had a certain person from a certain school speak, even though he was officially in a fundamentalist school, that I would not be asked to speak at the Pastor's fellowship again.

You should have 'cussed out' the person who said this, and assumed the disfellowshipped position immediately.  Then you would have an example for us to follow.  Instead, you crawled under the porch, and licked yourself, growling about how you'd 'bite em next time'.  I know you're free now, but wouldn't it be better to have taken an outspoken stand, then?


Anishinabe

 

[Biker]

Our church just spent the better part of a year examining and learning about he ins and outs of the SBC.

No where in Scripture, iincluding 1 Timothy, is this allowed. It wastes time and defrauds your sheep. God commanded the Sheep be protected from exactly what you are infiltrating your church with.

You are misinformed. The SBC has NO requirement as to how much you give to the co-operative program.

I never stated it did.

We give 1% or less of our annual budget to the SBC...but in the 9 months since we joined,we've had no less than 5 consultants visit our church to help us, at no cost to us. Our Pastors have also attended 7 different conferences and workshops, at no cost to us.

  1% is too much. & that's a huge amout of SBC indoctrination.

At he last IFB meeting I went to, I was taught that we need a choir, hymn books, only the KJV and a good coulotte pattern to build a good soul winning church. I'm using some hyperbole, but those are the points

Yes, that's heresy. But you must not repeat the cycle. We are not talking about whether alcohol is permisable or whether to have a Choir w/Hymbooks.  You are actively opposing GOD. Dragging others to their demise. A Christian doesn't partner with the unsaved upon spiritual matters or guidance. The Great Commission was given TO THE LOCAL Church. It is implemented while under local church oversight.

That was really when I decided to begin to prayerfully move our church away from that idiocy.NOT that all IFBs are that way....but sadly, most are.

Prayerfully moving your church from one cesspool to another doesn't result in salvation. It only wastes precious time. Hopefully I've been gentle enough that when you are saved, I can be allowed to rejoice with you. And support you as you introduce the truth to the Sheep. How exciting that could be! What a great place you are in. I'll be praying. Blessings and strength to you.

Do you hear the Twilight Zone Theme playing in the background when you post?
If not, you should.....

Again, I suggest you spend more time on reading the bible instead of childish one liners meant as put downs. The time you spend here, and months researching the SBC, donating 1% to a secular organization to help lead you... well that explains alot.


.

 

[Biker]

No where in Scripture, iincluding 1 Timothy, is this allowed. It wastes time and defrauds your sheep. God commanded the Sheep be protected from exactly what you are infiltrating your church with.

[QUOTE =rnc]I don't find anywhere in Scripture where pianos or electric lights are allowed either.

I think you are confused, maybe this is a reply to someone else. Pianos or electric guitars are innate objects. Feel free to start a new thread on that if you'd like.

[quote author=Biker]

We give 1% or less of our annual budget to the SBC...but in the 9 months since we joined,we've had no less than 5 consultants visit our church to help us, at no cost to us. Our Pastors have also attended 7 different conferences and workshops, at no cost to us.

  1% is too much. & that's a huge amout of SBC indoctrination. Would that be the tithe or no-tithe SBC doctrine?  [/quote]I bolded the first, then answered. Then bolded the Second sentence, then answered that too.

The congregational or elder-led doctrine? The Calvinist or Arminian doctrine? The contemporary or traditional-only doctrine?

Let's keep it on topic. If you start a topic on this, I will try to make time to contribute. Otherwise to try to learn about all the SBC's sin is sloth. I could care less about the Heretics sin. Except to get them saved.

I am aware of the SBC churches here, because I was involved with them. One Pastor is making changes. IN fact, we MAY NOT have any SBC churches here anymore. Like I said, one has already made changes.I am quite proud of my Biking buddy who graduated from the Masters Seminary. Amazing testimony.

The SBC doctrine is unimportant, the level of sin doesn't need to be studied. They are not a church, and how close they  mimick one is not for me to offer them praise. They are heretic, period. And those innocent church members who are saved, and being led astray by a Pastor who knows better, need prayer. We've had this conversation about the SBC before. When Tarheel becomes convicted, he starts smarting off. Scripture is not important

LUKE 15 the Parable of the Lost sheep means go get that ONE sheep that is lost. It doesn't mean partner with a secular organization, take a vote to learn a family member or two feels it's sin/wrong, then risk them leaving the church family. Then say I hope no one leaves my church. We don't hope for that, we ensure to work it out so we are obeying scripture, show them. If we are in the wrong, we correct it. Imperfect yes, sin sometimes, yes. Lead others astray, no. Church is a family. Protect the family, guide the sheep. Use scripture to do it. Don't let distractions such as pianos/guitars even come into play, hence the ELDER RUN model Paul established in the Early Church.

I was a Camp leader the last time I was involved in an SBC church. I am sorry that happened, but cannot take it back.  I did leave on the third day and phone the parents to come and get their children but that was due to something else. I've wrote about it on the other board, we never joined. To see our friends grow spiritually upon leaving that church was a blessing.

 

[Biker]

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/we%27re-officially-leaving-the-ifb-movement/msg14665/#msg14665

"Our vote last Sunday  resulted in an 89% majority voting to align our church with the SBC. We had a few more no votes than I anticipated, but we only had about 300 vote, out of probably 500 who were eligible to vote. I assume that those who didn't bother to vote, we're yes or I don't care....it was a secret ballot vote so it took a little effort to cast your paper ballot.
We are moving ahead but I am praying that we don't lose anyone because of this, because we were for all practical purposes am SBC church before the vote." by Tarheel Baptist

Tarheel is proudly stating he aligned his church with this secular organization. ^^ We've been down this road before. No remorse as of  yet.

He"slips in" that he may loose some of the sheep over it. Instead of ensuring this doesn't happen, via adhering to scripture, he is praying  it won't happen due to his sin.

It broke my heart to hear a Pastor would align himself with a secular organization, risking loosing his own family over it. Those he promised to protect from such evil. Yes, church is a family. THe most important family, our ETERNAL family. Light and Darkness cannot be aligned together. Nor can one claim we were already darkness so no one will notice when we align ourselves with it.

The parable of Lost Sheep (Luke 15) teaches us to go get our family, biological or eternal, as one lost is vital to the completion of an intact family. Broken families are dysfunctional. True love as defined by the truth (Bible) is Charity.

Aligning yourself, and the church you are leading with a secular organization is stupidity. TO boot, to do it despite opposition from your own family shows a heart condition that needs repair. He needs to be praying for himself, not praying his sheep decide to turn a blind eye.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/we%27re-officially-leaving-the-ifb-movement/msg14665/#msg14665

"Our vote last Sunday  resulted in an 89% majority voting to align our church with the SBC. We had a few more no votes than I anticipated, but we only had about 300 vote, out of probably 500 who were eligible to vote. I assume that those who didn't bother to vote, we're yes or I don't care....it was a secret ballot vote so it took a little effort to cast your paper ballot.
We are moving ahead but I am praying that we don't lose anyone because of this, because we were for all practical purposes am SBC church before the vote." by Tarheel Baptist

Tarheel is proudly stating he aligned his church with this secular organization. ^^ We've been down this road before. No remorse as of  yet.

He"slips in" that he may loose some of the sheep over it. Instead of ensuring this doesn't happen, via adhering to scripture, he is praying  it won't happen due to his sin.

It broke my heart to hear a Pastor would align himself with a secular organization, risking loosing his own family over it. Those he promised to protect from such evil. Yes, church is a family. THe most important family, our ETERNAL family. Light and Darkness cannot be aligned together. Nor can one claim we were already darkness so no one will notice when we align ourselves with it.

The parable of Lost Sheep (Luke 15) teaches us to go get our family, biological or eternal, as one lost is vital to the completion of an intact family. Broken families are dysfunctional. True love as defined by the truth (Bible) is Charity.

Aligning yourself, and the church you are leading with a secular organization is stupidity. TO boot, to do it despite opposition from your own family shows a heart condition that needs repair. He needs to be praying for himself, not praying his sheep decide to turn a blind eye.

You are about to enter another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land of imagination. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!

 

[bruinboy]

http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/we%27re-officially-leaving-the-ifb-movement/msg14665/#msg14665

"Our vote last Sunday  resulted in an 89% majority voting to align our church with the SBC. We had a few more no votes than I anticipated, but we only had about 300 vote, out of probably 500 who were eligible to vote. I assume that those who didn't bother to vote, we're yes or I don't care....it was a secret ballot vote so it took a little effort to cast your paper ballot.
We are moving ahead but I am praying that we don't lose anyone because of this, because we were for all practical purposes am SBC church before the vote." by Tarheel Baptist

Tarheel is proudly stating he aligned his church with this secular organization. ^^ We've been down this road before. No remorse as of  yet.

He"slips in" that he may loose some of the sheep over it. Instead of ensuring this doesn't happen, via adhering to scripture, he is praying  it won't happen due to his sin.

It broke my heart to hear a Pastor would align himself with a secular organization, risking loosing his own family over it. Those he promised to protect from such evil. Yes, church is a family. THe most important family, our ETERNAL family. Light and Darkness cannot be aligned together. Nor can one claim we were already darkness so no one will notice when we align ourselves with it.

The parable of Lost Sheep (Luke 15) teaches us to go get our family, biological or eternal, as one lost is vital to the completion of an intact family. Broken families are dysfunctional. True love as defined by the truth (Bible) is Charity.

Aligning yourself, and the church you are leading with a secular organization is stupidity. TO boot, to do it despite opposition from your own family shows a heart condition that needs repair. He needs to be praying for himself, not praying his sheep decide to turn a blind eye.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I can confirm that the people you talked to were wrong!
Our church joined the SBC last fall after 31 years as IFB.
Our Pastors were ALREADY in Guidestone as IFBs.
The only thing that changed is that now the SBC makes a matching contribution to our accounts.

Many IFB Pastors are in the SBC retirement program.

This is just what I was told.  It sounds great to begin with, but once there is disagreement, you are in a bind.  Sure, you could withdraw membership, but your budget and building payments are reliant upon that matching contribution.  Hence, when you leave the denomination, you leave your buildings also.  Also, once you leave the denomination, you abandon your retirement.

What this does is to effectively allow the SBC's denominational board and its consultants to control the direction of the church, rather than the local congregation and its pastor.

I think you misunderstand what the contribution is....it is to my personal retirement plan...nothing to do with our church. And I think the matching contribution comes from the State SBC...which is where we send our contributions.
My retirement plan with the SNC is mine....it is the same plan I had when I was an IFB. Many, many IFB Pastors are in the SBC plan...Guidestone. You don't have to be SBC to be in the program. It has NOTHING to do with the church, church buildings, church program or church affiliation.

I know you are honest and earnest, but you have been given some very bogus information. I know because we looked into some of these SBC urban legends before we affiliated with the SBC.

Interesting.

I would think I would still have trouble joining in with a group that has so many doctrinal differences, as another posted earlier.

What then is the advantage of joining?

Doctrinal differences? Unless they were referring to so called Calvinism, I'm not familiar with a doctrinal controversy in the SBC. And, I'm a 'Calvinist' and was when I was IFB...so the same controversy exists there.

I have already listed the many resources available within the SBC, not to mention the 5000 + missionaries they have on the field....

What is the disadvantage of joining?

 

[rsc2a]

No where in Scripture, iincluding 1 Timothy, is this allowed. It wastes time and defrauds your sheep. God commanded the Sheep be protected from exactly what you are infiltrating your church with.

I don't find anywhere in Scripture where pianos or electric lights are allowed either.

I think you are confused, maybe this is a reply to someone else. Pianos or electric guitars are innate objects. Feel free to start a new thread on that if you'd like.

No reason to start a new thread. These two examples show pretty clearly why your reasoning thus far was absurd.

[quote author=Biker]

The congregational or elder-led doctrine? The Calvinist or Arminian doctrine? The contemporary or traditional-only doctrine?

Let's keep it on topic. If you start a topic on this, I will try to make time to contribute. Otherwise to try to learn about all the SBC's sin is sloth. I could care less about the Heretics sin. Except to get them saved. [/quote]

I am on topic. You talked about SBC indoctrination. That would imply that there was a consistency across the board regarding what SBCers believe. I haven't found that to be true across SBC churches.

[quote author=Biker]I am aware of the SBC churches here, because I was involved with them. One Pastor is making changes. IN fact, we MAY NOT have any SBC churches here anymore. Like I said, one has already made changes.I am quite proud of my Biking buddy who graduated from the Masters Seminary. Amazing testimony...

...LUKE 15 the Parable of the Lost sheep means go get that ONE sheep that is lost. It doesn't mean partner with a secular organization, take a vote to learn a family member or two feels it's sin/wrong, then risk them leaving the church family. Then say I hope no one leaves my church. We don't hope for that, we ensure to work it out so we are obeying scripture, show them. If we are in the wrong, we correct it. Imperfect yes, sin sometimes, yes. Lead others astray, no. Church is a family. Protect the family, guide the sheep. Use scripture to do it. Don't let distractions such as pianos/guitars even come into play, hence the ELDER RUN model Paul established in the Early Church. [/quote]

Maybe you weren't listening? I told you I could point to elder-lead SBC churches....

[quote author=Biker]The SBC doctrine is unimportant, the level of sin doesn't need to be studied. They are not a church, and how close they  mimick one is not for me to offer them praise. They are heretic, period. And those innocent church members who are saved, and being led astray by a Pastor who knows better, need prayer. We've had this conversation about the SBC before. When Tarheel becomes convicted, he starts smarting off. Scripture is not important.[/quote]

The SBC is either part of the Church or a cooperation of churches, depending on perspective. And I'm interested to hear where you think they are heretic.....