FBCH calls another Jack . . .

[Izdaari]

Of course, they would never have asked me, a feminist, libertarian, theologically liberal (by IFB standards anyway), racially mixed, short-haired, pistol packin' woman in jeans, boots and a leather jacket, with no degree at all. But if they had? I'd never consider it without full authority to make the necessary changes, which would entail a complete change of staff, culture, ethics and doctrine.

 

[christundivided]

There may be many things to criticize this pastor for--I don't know anything about him beyond the little I've read in this thread. However, criticizing anyone for how they dealt with the death of a child is in extremely poor taste. Unless one has walked through that experience they have no idea what they would or wouldn't do.

And to criticizing someone for writing a book about their experience seems petty. For most of these authors, the act of writing is a catharsis and serves to aid in the grieving process. Saying "this is what God did for me through that time" is not dictating how others should behave. It's telling one's own story, usually in an effort to gain some clarity and serve as a remembrance.

When the children of Israel were on the exodus, God instructed them to leave stacks of stones in certain places so that they could bring their children back and tell them what He had done for them there. Today we write books, but the idea is the same.

Does this mean I can write a book about how I do anything and you will not accuse me of setting a standard? Really? Man, I feel free.

Question. When you read about the life of Paul in the Scriptures and you see how he reacted and lived his life. Do you consider THAT a standard?

How would it be any different if a Pastor does the same thing?

The man didn't say one thing about "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God"

He didn't say it. It didn't happen.

A ethical man would. I would never write a book on how someone should react when faced with the grief of losing a son. Yet, this what this book is ALL about.

 

[christundivided]

No one reacts the same way to tragedy. I personally think how Pastor Wilkerson and his wife reacted is encouraging to me.

Thanks for proving my point. You're encourage to act the same way.

I'm not a puppet, I have a mind of my own. Don't know if you have lost your parents, but I have. Getting through the emptiness you feel is hard, and looking to the Lord and his word is encouraging! I firmly the Lord brings things in our lives to help others. The Wilkersons lost a child, they can help others to live with the tragedy. They lost a child for goodness sake, and you are being nit picky on how they cope with it?  Do you have something against them? God? IFB?

No. I find it nit picky that a pastor would encourage everyone to act like he did. He is the one setting the standard.

Helping someone to "live with the tragedy" doesn't involve setting a standard for everyone to act the same. All I've done is question that "standard". If you read back through what I've wrote, you will find I've mentioned several instances were people have acted differently. Godly people. People that shouldn't have to question how they themselves handled a similar tragedy. I'm not the one that wrote book about or preached a sermon. Such has made it a part of public record and I have every right to question this "self imposing" standard.

Maybe I missed it but where did he set this standard for everyone to do as he did?

Definition of Standard..

Used or accepted as normal or average:

Do you think he acted "normally" or "average" for a Christian?  Do you think he present his own actions as being "normal" or "average" for a Christian?

Did he mention any other proper way to react? ANY?

 

[christundivided]

Not letting the devil dictate how they handle a situation is a good thing. Praising God for helping during a hard time is a good thing. Did everyone in the Bible behave the same way when a relative died? Not at all. The Wilkerson's are a great example of how the Lord gave them Grace through a difficult time.

Can we expect you to live up to their example? Do you plan on taking the same steps they did in dealing with it... IF it happens to you?

You're encouraged by it. You love the "grace" God gave them.... Sure looks like you've got a standard to go by. Looks you have found the ideal reaction to such circumstances.

How in the world you say its NOT a standard to you is beyond me.

 

[graceandtruth]

Just .02. 

I think you can say someone's actions was admirable and yet not establish that as a standard for everyone.  I was in the army and a person that serves and receives a purple heart actions are usually admirable but it is not an army standard.  Their stories will be recounted but their actions are not established as a army standard.  Will some people be inspired by their actions?  Sure.  Will some people think they were crazy?  Sure.  Are the actions that resulted in the soldier receiving a purple heart or either reaction wrong or a standard for others to follow?  No.  No.  No.

I think that is what these guys are trying to say.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Definition of Standard..

Used or accepted as normal or average:

Do you think he acted "normally" or "average" for a Christian?  Do you think he present his own actions as being "normal" or "average" for a Christian?

Did he mention any other proper way to react? ANY?

Again, from his book, where did he say this was the standard way for folks to deal with the death of a child?

You are simply reading into it.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Does this mean I can write a book about how I do anything and you will not accuse me of setting a standard? Really? Man, I feel free.

Question. When you read about the life of Paul in the Scriptures and you see how he reacted and lived his life. Do you consider THAT a standard?

How would it be any different if a Pastor does the same thing?

The man didn't say one thing about "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God"

He didn't say it. It didn't happen.

A ethical man would. I would never write a book on how someone should react when faced with the grief of losing a son. Yet, this what this book is ALL about.

No I don't consider Paul the standard.

Nor do I consider Peter the standard.

I didn't read in the Scriptures where Paul or Peter said  "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God" does that make them unethical as well?

 

[Walt]

Balaam, Good points, I'm hoping the best for FBC so maybe the yes boys will be looking to expand their horizons and leave............

If they are in their 40s or above, it may be difficult for them to get taken on somewhere (anywhere) else.

 

[christundivided]

Does this mean I can write a book about how I do anything and you will not accuse me of setting a standard? Really? Man, I feel free.

Question. When you read about the life of Paul in the Scriptures and you see how he reacted and lived his life. Do you consider THAT a standard?

How would it be any different if a Pastor does the same thing?

The man didn't say one thing about "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God"

He didn't say it. It didn't happen.

A ethical man would. I would never write a book on how someone should react when faced with the grief of losing a son. Yet, this what this book is ALL about.

No I don't consider Paul the standard.

Nor do I consider Peter the standard.

I didn't read in the Scriptures where Paul or Peter said  "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God" does that make them unethical as well?

NO. You have other SCRIPTURES that give examples of how OTHERS did things differently. Wilkerson never mentioned those other SCRIPTURES. Get it? Ever heard of the term "whole counsel of God". Godly men preach the entire "counsel of God". They don't focus on just a "few little verses" here and there. They don't focus on their own actions without mentioning a valid opposing action. Too much of that goes on these days. We are all different and its good that we are different. Yet churches like FBCH and others are in the business to make people just like THEM. A "chip off the old block". Schaap was one of the worst but he is not alone. I've seen it time and time again. This mentality has become an intricate part of IFB dum. This why you have so many "clicks" among IFB groups.

I've said enough. People can make their own choice. 

 

[samspade]

There may be many things to criticize this pastor for--I don't know anything about him beyond the little I've read in this thread. However, criticizing anyone for how they dealt with the death of a child is in extremely poor taste. Unless one has walked through that experience they have no idea what they would or wouldn't do.

And to criticizing someone for writing a book about their experience seems petty. For most of these authors, the act of writing is a catharsis and serves to aid in the grieving process. Saying "this is what God did for me through that time" is not dictating how others should behave. It's telling one's own story, usually in an effort to gain some clarity and serve as a remembrance.

When the children of Israel were on the exodus, God instructed them to leave stacks of stones in certain places so that they could bring their children back and tell them what He had done for them there. Today we write books, but the idea is the same.

Does this mean I can write a book about how I do anything and you will not accuse me of setting a standard? Really? Man, I feel free.

Question. When you read about the life of Paul in the Scriptures and you see how he reacted and lived his life. Do you consider THAT a standard?

How would it be any different if a Pastor does the same thing?

The man didn't say one thing about "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God"

He didn't say it. It didn't happen.

A ethical man would. I would never write a book on how someone should react when faced with the grief of losing a son. Yet, this what this book is ALL about.

Once again, writing "this is how I did it" is not the same as writing "this is how everyone should do it." And so far, you've presented zero evidence that he did the latter. Reasonable people can read someone's re-telling of a personal experience and realize that they aren't prescribing behavior.

As to Paul, he gave us plenty of instruction on how we, as Christians, should live. Trying to make standards out of the historical narrative of his life is missing the point. Would you emulate David? After all, he was a man after God's own heart. What about Peter? Or Moses? Maybe those accounts are in the Bible to show us what God can do in a person's heart and life, not for you to make up rules to live by. It's the difference between walking in the Spirit and trying to sanctify your own flesh.

 

[christundivided]

There may be many things to criticize this pastor for--I don't know anything about him beyond the little I've read in this thread. However, criticizing anyone for how they dealt with the death of a child is in extremely poor taste. Unless one has walked through that experience they have no idea what they would or wouldn't do.

And to criticizing someone for writing a book about their experience seems petty. For most of these authors, the act of writing is a catharsis and serves to aid in the grieving process. Saying "this is what God did for me through that time" is not dictating how others should behave. It's telling one's own story, usually in an effort to gain some clarity and serve as a remembrance.

When the children of Israel were on the exodus, God instructed them to leave stacks of stones in certain places so that they could bring their children back and tell them what He had done for them there. Today we write books, but the idea is the same.

Does this mean I can write a book about how I do anything and you will not accuse me of setting a standard? Really? Man, I feel free.

Question. When you read about the life of Paul in the Scriptures and you see how he reacted and lived his life. Do you consider THAT a standard?

How would it be any different if a Pastor does the same thing?

The man didn't say one thing about "you DON'T have to do it the WAY I DID IT."....or "other GODLY PEOPLE have reacted totally different... and its perfectly fine with God"

He didn't say it. It didn't happen.

A ethical man would. I would never write a book on how someone should react when faced with the grief of losing a son. Yet, this what this book is ALL about.

Once again, writing "this is how I did it" is not the same as writing "this is how everyone should do it." And so far, you've presented zero evidence that he did the latter. Reasonable people can read someone's re-telling of a personal experience and realize that they aren't prescribing behavior.

As to Paul, he gave us plenty of instruction on how we, as Christians, should live. Trying to make standards out of the historical narrative of his life is missing the point. Would you emulate David? After all, he was a man after God's own heart. What about Peter? Or Moses? Maybe those accounts are in the Bible to show us what God can do in a person's heart and life, not for you to make up rules to live by. It's the difference between walking in the Spirit and trying to sanctify your own flesh.

You've misunderstood me. I simply give the opposing view. A view that should be mentioned when anyone is dealing with grief. I am not setting a standard. You set the standard when you ONLY mention your own experience and not INCLUDE other experiences. I've included both. Until I mentioned this.... no one was even considering the opposing view. They simply saw what they considered the "ideal example" of "God's grace" in dealing with grief. Good men have done differently. Its okay to not follow Wilkerson's example.

 

[kaba]

You are correct, you don't have to follow how the  Wilderson's reacted. But you also don't have to criticize the way they reacted. They were not saying this is how everyone has to do it.

 

[Pastor Marty]

I've said enough. People can make their own choice.

And people can make their own choice regarding JW and his message .... glad we got that cleared up.

He never claimed to be the standard. That's your assertion.

 

[christundivided]

I've said enough. People can make their own choice.

And people can make their own choice regarding JW and his message .... glad we got that cleared up.

He never claimed to be the standard. That's your assertion.

We all know you have no standards. You left them behind when you decided to started sowing your seed to wind!

 

[christundivided]

You are correct, you don't have to follow how the  Wilderson's reacted. But you also don't have to criticize the way they reacted. They were not saying this is how everyone has to do it.

No one has to follow their example! Would you agree? If no one has to.... then so much for writing a book with such vivid detail of every move they made!

 

[kaba]

It's like a self help book. If someone needs help in a certain area of their life they might choose a book to help them. If someone looses a child, they might search for something to help them handle the tragedy. Don't need help don't read it, no one is being forced to read it.