FBC Hammond and their New Pastor

[BALAAM]

I remember moving away many years ago.  Bro. Hyles had offered me a position, but I turned it down because a prophet is not without honor save in his own country.  I wanted to get away from the place of my upbringing and all of the people and politics and build a new reputation in a new church where there wasn't all of the politics.  Guess what I found......All churches have politics problems, just on different levels.

I went through a culture shock of working in a small church of only 1,200.  Then I adjusted to a church of 200.  We have been in several churches over the years.  I have yet to find one that doesn't have some people playing a game of politicking for position.  Pride is an unstoppable spring welling up within each of us.  Only by constantly dying to self is it possible to overcome this problem.  Good luck finding a church where everybody has accomplished this every day.

JW has a reputation for helping a church move beyond a horrific situation.  I would suggest giving him a chance.  It seems as though many of the minions are too involved with the infighting and bragging of self-preservation to really worry about what is best for the church.  Hopefully the new pastor will address this at some point.  However, I wouldn't expect it to be a public address.  Corrections are most always done behind closed doors for a reason.

Why not go meet with the new pastor and address the issue.  The minions like to paint a picture that he is unapproachable and their opinion is all you need, but they might be wrong.  When I had problems in college, I went straight to the leadership and got pretty good results.  Yes, Bro. Hyles made mistakes, but I think he learned from those mistakes.  In his later years, I approached him about the sexual harassment taking place in the security department.  The problem was solved that night (mostly - that department was rotten at the core - but our issue was immediately addressed), apologies were issued, people were shipped, my gal was transferred to a better position.  You may be surprised that the new pastor is willing to hear your issues and have a real conversation with you. 

Don't let the only people he hears about the status and direction and goings-on of the church be the minions!  Some church member needs to present the other side of the coin to him.  If all he gets is their opinion, he can't help but continue in the same direction.  This would not be fair to him.  Don't get upset at him for not understanding your paradigm, if you are unwilling to share it with him.  Help him out.  Don't go in ready to rip on anyone.  Rather, go in with a spirit of meekness ready to boldly present the problems you see while offering solutions and ask to pray with him that God would give him wisdom in directing the church in a new direction and away from the problems of the past.

By the Way, that "position" is still probably open! Come in and fill out an application.

 

[Bull City Justice]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

lol!  or may be spending a lot of time around the "Ultimate Man of God" is what makes you fruitcakey

Maybe...but I think Vic was 'out there' before he met J.H.  Moonbat, however, along with her two other divorced siblings, kinda has to be blamed on Pops.

Anishinabe

Vic initially endured the situation "for the good of the ministry" just like the Hyles children and everyone else in the church who has looked the other way. If he was so "out there" why did Jack have him lead singing in SS every Sunday morning? You know what's "out there?" Having your wife sit next to your mistress in the front row of the choir every service, even after it came out. The mind control was so great Jack knew he could get away with it and flaunt it. He could even have a bronze statue of he and his wife erected and a large Evita Peron style painting on the side of a building depicting him overlooking the properties. He could get people who had been in the know forever (and those who weren't) to walk around everywhere they went with 100% Hyles Supporter pins on their coats or purses. He could convince the head of his college and his wife to look the other way after catching Dave molesting their high school age daughter.

He could convince everyone in the church that "This is the greatest church since the time of Paul."

Seriously.

As incredible and crazy as what you say above sounds, I've seen it firsthand (and to a very small extent experienced it) with my own eyes, and, unfortunately, can't dispute anything you said.  IMHO, the man's hypnotic skills combined with the never-ending desires of human beings to have something to worship ... resulted in the unbelievable effects you describe above.

 

[Norefund]

I saw the people I care about who still attend FBC transfer that worship to JS. You know, it puts the whole Israel worshipping the golden calf story into a new perspective, doesn't it?

 

[BALAAM]

I saw the people I care about who still attend FBC transfer that worship to JS. You know, it puts the whole Israel worshipping the golden calf story into a new perspective, doesn't it?

You are exactly right and when js went down the crapper I heard a lot of these people say, "We don't worship a man." I told several, yes you do. I have seen it firsthand.

 

[Evelyn]

What do you Hyles alumni think of the new Pastor?
As one on the outside looking in, he seems like a good candidate to turn the place around, in that he has a pretty good track record in his former church. I'm praying that God uses him to clean up the mess and make the church and ministry there profitable for the sake of the Kingdom!

I knew John and his wife back in school.  He was from a huge family and they weren't raised with money.  His temperament in school was one of meekness, genuineness, steady, head-on-his shoulders, etc.  He and Linda came down to our city to work in a local Christian school and our schools played each other often in sports, so I had the opportunity to see them there, as well.  Just really sweet and super folks.  There just wasn't anything bad to say about them.

I hope great and godly things for him.  I am not sure the machine of FBCH would ever change under him, but I can still hope.  Shaking hands with no body guards is a great place to start.

 

[Evelyn]

I heard that he said that trying to get used to things here feels like trying to paint a freight train when it's moving at full speed! He believes we need some rest.

And herein lies much of the problem (past and present).

I know it's been a few weeks, Raider, and I know you are getting pretty old, but can you remember back to this post and explain what you meant?  Is the problem that they move full speed?  That he wants them to rest?  Explanify yourself, man.

 

[RAIDER]

I heard that he said that trying to get used to things here feels like trying to paint a freight train when it's moving at full speed! He believes we need some rest.

And herein lies much of the problem (past and present).

I know it's been a few weeks, Raider, and I know you are getting pretty old, but can you remember back to this post and explain what you meant?  Is the problem that they move full speed?  That he wants them to rest?  Explanify yourself, man.

Sure, little Hackerette!!  If I remember correctly the new pastor said trying to get use to things at FBCH/HAC was like trying to paint a freight train when it's moving at full speed. 

While I believe we need to be busy about the Father's business, there has to be some common sense.  Through the years FBCH/HAC has driven people at full speed to accomplish numerical goals.  I believe the same can be accomplished while respecting individuals and families.

 

[Evelyn]

I don't know who Bravo and longlivedunkin are in real life, nor do they know who I am. I do not know who at the church feels the way I do. It is really a little like living in fear of the secret police..you really do not know who you can trust. (I am not exaggerating...during the recent turbulent time of putting a new church constitution into place, a member started a FaceBook page to discuss issues. Rationally. In a Christlike spirit. Discuss the important issues of the new constitution. This was seen as disloyalty. The member was called in before EL and others, his wife was removed from her position as a SS teacher as punishment for his disloyalty. To speak out is to knowingly sacrifice any good thing you may have going on at the church, like a bus route or a SS class...) They discipline disloyalty, but not immorality. It is very, very warped.

Oh my goodness, this is such an astute observation....  Really, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

 

[Evelyn]

I heard that he said that trying to get used to things here feels like trying to paint a freight train when it's moving at full speed! He believes we need some rest.

And herein lies much of the problem (past and present).

I know it's been a few weeks, Raider, and I know you are getting pretty old, but can you remember back to this post and explain what you meant?  Is the problem that they move full speed?  That he wants them to rest?  Explanify yourself, man.

Sure, little Hackerette!!  If I remember correctly the new pastor said trying to get use to things at FBCH/HAC was like trying to paint a freight train when it's moving at full speed. 

While I believe we need to be busy about the Father's business, there has to be some common sense.  Through the years FBCH/HAC has driven people at full speed to accomplish numerical goals.  I believe the same can be accomplished while respecting individuals and families.

Okay, I thought for a moment you were showing your Hacker card at the door and demanding "No rest for the weary!" 

FWIW, I agree with you entirely.  I wish all those folks up there could just talk a collective sigh and breathe for a moment.

 

[RAIDER]

My daughter graduated from another IFB college.  I was shocked when all of the students were back from their ministries by 3:00 on Saturday afternoon and 2:00 on Sunday afternoon.  The church was very large, yet people could have somewhat of a normal life.

 

[Evelyn]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

This is a fair question, however if "the nature of this comment" prevents people from speaking out no wonder there's a problem.

Nischik:  while Hyles' mesmerizing persona and cunning mind control is well-documented, his ability to do what he did to Vic and his family requires a certain kind of compliance that I loosely refer to as fruity - I could be more precise in my description of Murphrey and Nischik so thank-you for calling me on it.  But that being said, what kind of adult man can't communicate and get to the bottom of something with his wife, the mother of his children?  If you've been married any length of time and have any sort of normal relationship with your spouse, how could someone do what Hyles did without you and your spouse hashing it out at some point?  But this goes to my original point, how can Hyles do what he did without some reasonable, rational person SOMEWHERE knowing about it and telling it in a way that would be effective and persuasive?

Murphrey:  her TED talk, while brave in light of what she went through, is very vague in some respects while also including embellishments that were totally unnecessary to prove her point (50,000 tithing members, Hyles "owning" all the FBC properties, etc.).  Her recent letter is a little more effective, but is still light on important details for someone who was right there through it all.

I am not defending Hyles and the FBC M-O in the least or saying he didn't do most/all of what he is accused of.  I am only saying it is most strange that more people don't say/do something about it.

I don't harbor ill will toward either of the two people above, nor can I imagine the horrors they lived through.  Neither do I necessarily "want them" to do more than they've done to expose the truth.  But meanwhile, it would be great if some regular, credible person (or a couple dozen people) would come forth who is 1) in the know, 2) persuasive in a matter-of-fact, unemotional kind of way, and 3) willing to take a stand for the truth and go as far as it takes to do so.

Perhaps that's just unrealistic expectations on my part.  The whole thing is just exasperatingly weird and annoying ...

My memory is failing me, but I know that I recently read a blog by a husband and wife who confronted JS and posted their letters to him in their blog.  For the life of me, I cannot recall their last name, although I recognized it when I read the blog.  They were life-long FBCH attendees.  So, some credible folks ARE speaking up/have spoken up through the years, but it's such a drop in the bucket.

For instance, I see George Godfrey as a wonderful and credible human being.  He couldn't stomach what was happening with the door/no door and called Dr. Hyles on it.  Another drop in the bucket.  Several forum members right here who grew up there speak up and out, but they are just another drop in that bucket.  Linda was the closest thing to someone who could make a difference in a national way, but for her comment about Hyles owning all the buildings.

I just don't see that a groundswell of folks is going to rise up and say anything, especially since the ones that do venture to speak their truth are so viciously silenced at times.

 

[Evelyn]

My daughter graduated from another IFB college.  I was shocked when all of the students were back from their ministries by 3:00 on Saturday afternoon and 2:00 on Sunday afternoon.  The church was very large, yet people could have somewhat of a normal life.

Backsliders, one and all! lol

 

[patriotic]

My daughter graduated from another IFB college.  I was shocked when all of the students were back from their ministries by 3:00 on Saturday afternoon and 2:00 on Sunday afternoon.  The church was very large, yet people could have somewhat of a normal life.

Backsliders, one and all! lol

Agree, but I call them stinkin' (Raider loves that word!) DEADBEATS - as bad as Youth Ministry workers!

 

[BALAAM]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

Tim and Lisa Streeter
This is a fair question, however if "the nature of this comment" prevents people from speaking out no wonder there's a problem.

Nischik:  while Hyles' mesmerizing persona and cunning mind control is well-documented, his ability to do what he did to Vic and his family requires a certain kind of compliance that I loosely refer to as fruity - I could be more precise in my description of Murphrey and Nischik so thank-you for calling me on it.  But that being said, what kind of adult man can't communicate and get to the bottom of something with his wife, the mother of his children?  If you've been married any length of time and have any sort of normal relationship with your spouse, how could someone do what Hyles did without you and your spouse hashing it out at some point?  But this goes to my original point, how can Hyles do what he did without some reasonable, rational person SOMEWHERE knowing about it and telling it in a way that would be effective and persuasive?

Murphrey:  her TED talk, while brave in light of what she went through, is very vague in some respects while also including embellishments that were totally unnecessary to prove her point (50,000 tithing members, Hyles "owning" all the FBC properties, etc.).  Her recent letter is a little more effective, but is still light on important details for someone who was right there through it all.

I am not defending Hyles and the FBC M-O in the least or saying he didn't do most/all of what he is accused of.  I am only saying it is most strange that more people don't say/do something about it.

I don't harbor ill will toward either of the two people above, nor can I imagine the horrors they lived through.  Neither do I necessarily "want them" to do more than they've done to expose the truth.  But meanwhile, it would be great if some regular, credible person (or a couple dozen people) would come forth who is 1) in the know, 2) persuasive in a matter-of-fact, unemotional kind of way, and 3) willing to take a stand for the truth and go as far as it takes to do so.

Perhaps that's just unrealistic expectations on my part.  The whole thing is just exasperatingly weird and annoying ...

My memory is failing me, but I know that I recently read a blog by a husband and wife who confronted JS and posted their letters to him in their blog.  For the life of me, I cannot recall their last name, although I recognized it when I read the blog.  They were life-long FBCH attendees.  So, some credible folks ARE speaking up/have spoken up through the years, but it's such a drop in the bucket.

For instance, I see George Godfrey as a wonderful and credible human being.  He couldn't stomach what was happening with the door/no door and called Dr. Hyles on it.  Another drop in the bucket.  Several forum members right here who grew up there speak up and out, but they are just another drop in that bucket.  Linda was the closest thing to someone who could make a difference in a national way, but for her comment about Hyles owning all the buildings.

I just don't see that a groundswell of folks is going to rise up and say anything, especially since the ones that do venture to speak their truth are so viciously silenced at times.

 

[prophet]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

This is a fair question, however if "the nature of this comment" prevents people from speaking out no wonder there's a problem.

Nischik:  while Hyles' mesmerizing persona and cunning mind control is well-documented, his ability to do what he did to Vic and his family requires a certain kind of compliance that I loosely refer to as fruity - I could be more precise in my description of Murphrey and Nischik so thank-you for calling me on it.  But that being said, what kind of adult man can't communicate and get to the bottom of something with his wife, the mother of his children?  If you've been married any length of time and have any sort of normal relationship with your spouse, how could someone do what Hyles did without you and your spouse hashing it out at some point?  But this goes to my original point, how can Hyles do what he did without some reasonable, rational person SOMEWHERE knowing about it and telling it in a way that would be effective and persuasive?

Murphrey:  her TED talk, while brave in light of what she went through, is very vague in some respects while also including embellishments that were totally unnecessary to prove her point (50,000 tithing members, Hyles "owning" all the FBC properties, etc.).  Her recent letter is a little more effective, but is still light on important details for someone who was right there through it all.

I am not defending Hyles and the FBC M-O in the least or saying he didn't do most/all of what he is accused of.  I am only saying it is most strange that more people don't say/do something about it.

I don't harbor ill will toward either of the two people above, nor can I imagine the horrors they lived through.  Neither do I necessarily "want them" to do more than they've done to expose the truth.  But meanwhile, it would be great if some regular, credible person (or a couple dozen people) would come forth who is 1) in the know, 2) persuasive in a matter-of-fact, unemotional kind of way, and 3) willing to take a stand for the truth and go as far as it takes to do so.

Perhaps that's just unrealistic expectations on my part.  The whole thing is just exasperatingly weird and annoying ...

My memory is failing me, but I know that I recently read a blog by a husband and wife who confronted JS and posted their letters to him in their blog.  For the life of me, I cannot recall their last name, although I recognized it when I read the blog.  They were life-long FBCH attendees.  So, some credible folks ARE speaking up/have spoken up through the years, but it's such a drop in the bucket.

For instance, I see George Godfrey as a wonderful and credible human being.  He couldn't stomach what was happening with the door/no door and called Dr. Hyles on it.  Another drop in the bucket.  Several forum members right here who grew up there speak up and out, but they are just another drop in that bucket.  Linda was the closest thing to someone who could make a difference in a national way, but for her comment about Hyles owning all the buildings.

I just don't see that a groundswell of folks is going to rise up and say anything, especially since the ones that do venture to speak their truth are so viciously silenced at times.

Tim and Lisa Streeter.

Anishinabe

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I think much of our problem lies in our goal of saving America, instead of worshiping God. 

You mean if God's gonna save America, it's not going to come from this room?!?!?!!?!?!? 

 

[Evelyn]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

This is a fair question, however if "the nature of this comment" prevents people from speaking out no wonder there's a problem.

Nischik:  while Hyles' mesmerizing persona and cunning mind control is well-documented, his ability to do what he did to Vic and his family requires a certain kind of compliance that I loosely refer to as fruity - I could be more precise in my description of Murphrey and Nischik so thank-you for calling me on it.  But that being said, what kind of adult man can't communicate and get to the bottom of something with his wife, the mother of his children?  If you've been married any length of time and have any sort of normal relationship with your spouse, how could someone do what Hyles did without you and your spouse hashing it out at some point?  But this goes to my original point, how can Hyles do what he did without some reasonable, rational person SOMEWHERE knowing about it and telling it in a way that would be effective and persuasive?

Murphrey:  her TED talk, while brave in light of what she went through, is very vague in some respects while also including embellishments that were totally unnecessary to prove her point (50,000 tithing members, Hyles "owning" all the FBC properties, etc.).  Her recent letter is a little more effective, but is still light on important details for someone who was right there through it all.

I am not defending Hyles and the FBC M-O in the least or saying he didn't do most/all of what he is accused of.  I am only saying it is most strange that more people don't say/do something about it.

I don't harbor ill will toward either of the two people above, nor can I imagine the horrors they lived through.  Neither do I necessarily "want them" to do more than they've done to expose the truth.  But meanwhile, it would be great if some regular, credible person (or a couple dozen people) would come forth who is 1) in the know, 2) persuasive in a matter-of-fact, unemotional kind of way, and 3) willing to take a stand for the truth and go as far as it takes to do so.

Perhaps that's just unrealistic expectations on my part.  The whole thing is just exasperatingly weird and annoying ...

My memory is failing me, but I know that I recently read a blog by a husband and wife who confronted JS and posted their letters to him in their blog.  For the life of me, I cannot recall their last name, although I recognized it when I read the blog.  They were life-long FBCH attendees.  So, some credible folks ARE speaking up/have spoken up through the years, but it's such a drop in the bucket.

For instance, I see George Godfrey as a wonderful and credible human being.  He couldn't stomach what was happening with the door/no door and called Dr. Hyles on it.  Another drop in the bucket.  Several forum members right here who grew up there speak up and out, but they are just another drop in that bucket.  Linda was the closest thing to someone who could make a difference in a national way, but for her comment about Hyles owning all the buildings.

I just don't see that a groundswell of folks is going to rise up and say anything, especially since the ones that do venture to speak their truth are so viciously silenced at times.

Tim and Lisa Streeter.

Anishinabe

Thanks!

 

[sam]

It amazes me that anyone would attend a church that has manipulative, controlling pastors.  I am as IFB, conservative, old-fashoned as can be and I absolutely would not be any part of it.  May the Lord help you all who are struggling in the midst of a mess.

A little advice: g-e-t  o-u-t.

 

[RebeccasRants]

My daughter graduated from another IFB college.  I was shocked when all of the students were back from their ministries by 3:00 on Saturday afternoon and 2:00 on Sunday afternoon.  The church was very large, yet people could have somewhat of a normal life.

My daughter is flying home from her first year at WCBC today!  She told me she had a DATE on a Saturday!  I talked to Watchman and told him they actually date on Saturdays at WCBC!!!  What a bunch of deadbeats!  (but I was just kidding and actually somewhat relived that she's at a place with a more balanced approach to Christian living and service) 

Oh and I called my youngest child a "deadbeat" and he didn't even know what that was!  The times they are achanging....

 

[RebeccasRants]

Okay, I don't get how to quote someone properly on this forum yet.  I meant to copy Raider's quote about his daughter not the other one.  Oh well....I don't get the "karma" stuff either.