FBC Hammond and their New Pastor

[myeyesareopen]

I do not know your affiliation with FBCHammond - member? Former member? HAC student? To be here is to know you are powerless to voice any real thoughts, any valid questions, ask for any accountability. Trust and Obey authority is relentlessly preached. To have a question is to be seen as not being with the program, not being 'for' the church, not being for the pastor - and by extension, not being 'for' God. Because this is His church and you had best fall in or fall out, soldier. Be assured, if you fall out we will know you never were truly one of us. tHAT is the mentality here. Speak up and change things? It does not compute...

 

[RAIDER]

If you two believe that way, and I know there are several others, then there also must be many, many others that feel that way. Why is he allowed to remain on staff?

I'm not suggesting a revolution or anything, but c'mon, the man EL needs to go.  He has exhibited on multiple occassions that he is not an honest man, and he has no place in his position.  Besides, he's wishy-washy.  I have a hard time even looking at "men" who are wishy-washy.  Puke!   

Someone needs to do something. 

JMO

I agree.  How many churches would allow an assistant pastor to get in front of the congregation and be dishonest without dealing with him or it causing a church split.  I realize the church is large, but give me a break.  Surely there are enough people in authority with enough common sense to deal with this. 

 

[myeyesareopen]

I don't know who Bravo and longlivedunkin are in real life, nor do they know who I am. I do not know who at the church feels the way I do. It is really a little like living in fear of the secret police..you really do not know who you can trust. (I am not exaggerating...during the recent turbulent time of putting a new church constitution into place, a member started a FaceBook page to discuss issues. Rationally. In a Christlike spirit. Discuss the important issues of the new constitution. This was seen as disloyalty. The member was called in before EL and others, his wife was removed from her position as a SS teacher as punishment for his disloyalty. To speak out is to knowingly sacrifice any good thing you may have going on at the church, like a bus route or a SS class...) They discipline disloyalty, but not immorality. It is very, very warped.

For the record, what would have made a difference is if, in the 6 1/2 months he was acting as interim pastor (a position which was never voted on by the members) EL ever would have just come out and admitted he was wrong. If he would have said out loud that he knew he was not telling the truth that Sunday morning, but he sincerely believed he was doing the right thing at the time...if he would have admitted he now realized it was wrong...I would have forgiven it. We all make mistakes. No one is unreasonable enough to suggest otherwise. Own them. And help the corporate body heal by discussing it with them like adults, out in the open, and clear the air.

I think it is the veil of secrecy that so frustrates the Spirit here at FBC.

And so a few of us speak out on forums like this, not knowing who each other are, not sure if The Powers That Be will come after us for defamation for speaking out (assuming they can figure out who we are...which apparently, is not that implausible even though I wouldn't know how to do it), and at least in my case, secretly hoping The Powers That Be are keeping tabs on this and realizing these feelings of deep unrest need desperately to be addressed. Again, treat us like adults. We are not children needing to be handled. God has more respect for His believers than that. He tells it like it is in the Bible. If someone gang rapes a prostitute and chops her body into pieces...He doesn't leave that part out, for fear it will harm the cause of Christ...He doesn't tell everyone it will be all better if they just open their pocketbooks back up, make sure of their modest clothing and outward appearance of righteousness, and get rewards for how many tracts they pass out during the Spring Program.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=myeyesareopen]If someone gang rapes a prostitute and chops her body into pieces...He doesn't leave that part out, for fear it will harm the cause of Christ...[/quote]

This happened at your church and they covered it up? 

 

[Bull City Justice]

I don't know who Bravo and longlivedunkin are in real life, nor do they know who I am. I do not know who at the church feels the way I do. It is really a little like living in fear of the secret police..you really do not know who you can trust. (I am not exaggerating...during the recent turbulent time of putting a new church constitution into place, a member started a FaceBook page to discuss issues. Rationally. In a Christlike spirit. Discuss the important issues of the new constitution. This was seen as disloyalty. The member was called in before EL and others, his wife was removed from her position as a SS teacher as punishment for his disloyalty. To speak out is to knowingly sacrifice any good thing you may have going on at the church, like a bus route or a SS class...) They discipline disloyalty, but not immorality. It is very, very warped.

For the record, what would have made a difference is if, in the 6 1/2 months he was acting as interim pastor (a position which was never voted on by the members) EL ever would have just come out and admitted he was wrong. If he would have said out loud that he knew he was not telling the truth that Sunday morning, but he sincerely believed he was doing the right thing at the time...if he would have admitted he now realized it was wrong...I would have forgiven it. We all make mistakes. No one is unreasonable enough to suggest otherwise. Own them. And help the corporate body heal by discussing it with them like adults, out in the open, and clear the air.

I think it is the veil of secrecy that so frustrates the Spirit here at FBC.

And so a few of us speak out on forums like this, not knowing who each other are, not sure if The Powers That Be will come after us for defamation for speaking out (assuming they can figure out who we are...which apparently, is not that implausible even though I wouldn't know how to do it), and at least in my case, secretly hoping The Powers That Be are keeping tabs on this and realizing these feelings of deep unrest need desperately to be addressed. Again, treat us like adults. We are not children needing to be handled. God has more respect for His believers than that. He tells it like it is in the Bible. If someone gang rapes a prostitute and chops her body into pieces...He doesn't leave that part out, for fear it will harm the cause of Christ...He doesn't tell everyone it will be all better if they just open their pocketbooks back up, make sure of their modest clothing and outward appearance of righteousness, and get rewards for how many tracts they pass out during the Spring Program.

Wow so much to consider (and be depressed/amazed by) here.  For those of us on the outside (some fam attended the college and go to an "HAC-style" church), I continue to be flummoxed by the fact that rational, intelligent adults stand for this.  Eddie Lapina will preach a youth conference in my hometown next month for goodness' sake.

Would it really be that difficult for bold, honest, humble, intelligent members to change the culture or at least get it headed in the right direction?  Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

Perhaps those of us with loose ties to the place should just give up on the maddening "wait" for healthy change and write off the whole thing as the never-ending ebb and flow of insanity it has been for the last 30 years.

 

[Norefund]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

 

[qwerty]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

You must not get out much.

 

[BALAAM]

Wow. After reading all of this it kind of reminds me of how JH used to talk about pastors who wanted to stay in a liberal denomination and change its direction. He always said that you couldn't. I don't think a church member or even a few can change fbch. EL is entrenched and he will stay that way along with many of the other bobbleheads.

As some of you know, I went there for 25 years and last summer, the week before youth conference when I heard js preach his infamous sex sermon, I decided that this was it. The thing that really got me to leave is not just because I though that js was a pervert. (which proved to be true) The thing that got me to leave is after he preached this absolutely vulgar, distasteful, sexually themed sermon, I saw staff members and hac teachers walk down the aisle to the altar just as regular as clock work. I thought, "Did you just hear what I heard?" And I knew that the problem was not just js.

Some of you know who I am and I really would have no problem having the fbch bobbleheads know what I think, but I still have a very close relative who is on staff and I do not want to embarrass him in any way.

Eddie is a weasel and has been since I can remember. I see no imminent danger of him changing.

 

[Bull City Justice]

Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?

What makes them fruitcakes in your opinion? The very nature of this comment is probably why the vast majority of people who suspect or outright know something is very wrong won't speak out.

I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

This is a fair question, however if "the nature of this comment" prevents people from speaking out no wonder there's a problem.

Nischik:  while Hyles' mesmerizing persona and cunning mind control is well-documented, his ability to do what he did to Vic and his family requires a certain kind of compliance that I loosely refer to as fruity - I could be more precise in my description of Murphrey and Nischik so thank-you for calling me on it.  But that being said, what kind of adult man can't communicate and get to the bottom of something with his wife, the mother of his children?  If you've been married any length of time and have any sort of normal relationship with your spouse, how could someone do what Hyles did without you and your spouse hashing it out at some point?  But this goes to my original point, how can Hyles do what he did without some reasonable, rational person SOMEWHERE knowing about it and telling it in a way that would be effective and persuasive?

Murphrey:  her TED talk, while brave in light of what she went through, is very vague in some respects while also including embellishments that were totally unnecessary to prove her point (50,000 tithing members, Hyles "owning" all the FBC properties, etc.).  Her recent letter is a little more effective, but is still light on important details for someone who was right there through it all.

I am not defending Hyles and the FBC M-O in the least or saying he didn't do most/all of what he is accused of.  I am only saying it is most strange that more people don't say/do something about it.

I don't harbor ill will toward either of the two people above, nor can I imagine the horrors they lived through.  Neither do I necessarily "want them" to do more than they've done to expose the truth.  But meanwhile, it would be great if some regular, credible person (or a couple dozen people) would come forth who is 1) in the know, 2) persuasive in a matter-of-fact, unemotional kind of way, and 3) willing to take a stand for the truth and go as far as it takes to do so.

Perhaps that's just unrealistic expectations on my part.  The whole thing is just exasperatingly weird and annoying ...

 

[Norefund]

Quote from: Norefund on Today at 02:50:54 PM
Quote
Why is it only fruitcakes like Nischik and Linda Murphrey who will speak the truth, and then only in a vague, sanctimonious manner that so closely resembles those who are the problem in the first place?


I believe writing the book "The Wizard of God" and Linda's Ted Talk and Open Letter may be the bravest acts I personally have ever witnessed.

You must not get out much.

You're right. I don't.

Turning against the Ultimate Man of God and inciting his rabid followers in order to speak the truth seems brave to me.

 

[prophet]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

 

[Norefund]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk when I read this 

 

[Bull City Justice]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

lol!  or may be spending a lot of time around the "Ultimate Man of God" is what makes you fruitcakey

 

[Torrent v.2]

Wow. After reading all of this it kind of reminds me of how JH used to talk about pastors who wanted to stay in a liberal denomination and change its direction. He always said that you couldn't. I don't think a church member or even a few can change fbch. EL is entrenched and he will stay that way along with many of the other bobbleheads.

As some of you know, I went there for 25 years and last summer, the week before youth conference when I heard js preach his infamous sex sermon, I decided that this was it. The thing that really got me to leave is not just because I though that js was a pervert. (which proved to be true) The thing that got me to leave is after he preached this absolutely vulgar, distasteful, sexually themed sermon, I saw staff members and hac teachers walk down the aisle to the altar just as regular as clock work. I thought, "Did you just hear what I heard?" And I knew that the problem was not just js.

Some of you know who I am and I really would have no problem having the fbch bobbleheads know what I think, but I still have a very close relative who is on staff and I do not want to embarrass him in any way.

Eddie is a weasel and has been since I can remember. I see no imminent danger of him changing.

I did not know this about you. I commend you for your wise move.  May the Lord increase your joy in him.

 

[prophet]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

lol!  or may be spending a lot of time around the "Ultimate Man of God" is what makes you fruitcakey

Maybe...but I think Vic was 'out there' before he met J.H.  Moonbat, however, along with her two other divorced siblings, kinda has to be blamed on Pops.

Anishinabe

 

[abp]

"If you're ever not in church here, be in church some place else . . . it'd bless me if you'd get the bulletin of the church where you were at and bring it to my office. I'd like to see it. Number one, it's proof that you were somewhere where you're supposed to be . . ."

And the control continues at FBC in the form of a new suit

Pastor John Wilkerson - Wednesday March 13, 2013

 

[JrChurch]

It amazes me that anyone would attend a church that has manipulative, controlling pastors.  I am as IFB, conservative, old-fashoned as can be and I absolutely would not be any part of it.  May the Lord help you all who are struggling in the midst of a mess.

A little advice: g-e-t  o-u-t. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I remember moving away many years ago.  Bro. Hyles had offered me a position, but I turned it down because a prophet is not without honor save in his own country.  I wanted to get away from the place of my upbringing and all of the people and politics and build a new reputation in a new church where there wasn't all of the politics.  Guess what I found......All churches have politics problems, just on different levels.

I went through a culture shock of working in a small church of only 1,200.  Then I adjusted to a church of 200.  We have been in several churches over the years.  I have yet to find one that doesn't have some people playing a game of politicking for position.  Pride is an unstoppable spring welling up within each of us.  Only by constantly dying to self is it possible to overcome this problem.  Good luck finding a church where everybody has accomplished this every day.

JW has a reputation for helping a church move beyond a horrific situation.  I would suggest giving him a chance.  It seems as though many of the minions are too involved with the infighting and bragging of self-preservation to really worry about what is best for the church.  Hopefully the new pastor will address this at some point.  However, I wouldn't expect it to be a public address.  Corrections are most always done behind closed doors for a reason.

Why not go meet with the new pastor and address the issue.  The minions like to paint a picture that he is unapproachable and their opinion is all you need, but they might be wrong.  When I had problems in college, I went straight to the leadership and got pretty good results.  Yes, Bro. Hyles made mistakes, but I think he learned from those mistakes.  In his later years, I approached him about the sexual harassment taking place in the security department.  The problem was solved that night (mostly - that department was rotten at the core - but our issue was immediately addressed), apologies were issued, people were shipped, my gal was transferred to a better position.  You may be surprised that the new pastor is willing to hear your issues and have a real conversation with you. 

Don't let the only people he hears about the status and direction and goings-on of the church be the minions!  Some church member needs to present the other side of the coin to him.  If all he gets is their opinion, he can't help but continue in the same direction.  This would not be fair to him.  Don't get upset at him for not understanding your paradigm, if you are unwilling to share it with him.  Help him out.  Don't go in ready to rip on anyone.  Rather, go in with a spirit of meekness ready to boldly present the problems you see while offering solutions and ask to pray with him that God would give him wisdom in directing the church in a new direction and away from the problems of the past.

 

[Norefund]

"If you're ever not in church here, be in church some place else . . . it'd bless me if you'd get the bulletin of the church where you were at and bring it to my office. I'd like to see it. Number one, it's proof that you were somewhere where you're supposed to be . . ."

And the control continues at FBC in the form of a new suit

At least he isn't perpetuating the attitude that if you can't attend the service at FBC why bother attending anywhere.

 

[Norefund]

And fruitcakey.  )

Anishinabe

lol!  or may be spending a lot of time around the "Ultimate Man of God" is what makes you fruitcakey

Maybe...but I think Vic was 'out there' before he met J.H.  Moonbat, however, along with her two other divorced siblings, kinda has to be blamed on Pops.

Anishinabe

Vic initially endured the situation "for the good of the ministry" just like the Hyles children and everyone else in the church who has looked the other way. If he was so "out there" why did Jack have him lead singing in SS every Sunday morning? You know what's "out there?" Having your wife sit next to your mistress in the front row of the choir every service, even after it came out. The mind control was so great Jack knew he could get away with it and flaunt it. He could even have a bronze statue of he and his wife erected and a large Evita Peron style painting on the side of a building depicting him overlooking the properties. He could get people who had been in the know forever (and those who weren't) to walk around everywhere they went with 100% Hyles Supporter pins on their coats or purses. He could convince the head of his college and his wife to look the other way after catching Dave molesting their high school age daughter.

He could convince everyone in the church that "This is the greatest church since the time of Paul."

Seriously.