Dictatorial Preacher Rule - Where It All Began

AverageJoe said:
That's for sure! I surprised one church when during a Bible study one evening the pastor declared my wife and I weren't saved because we didn't agree 100 percent with his opinion of what the Bible taught on preservation of the Word of God in ONLY the KJV. The misapplication of Scripture to support his views, and the hodge podge of verses being strung together to allegedly support his views were pointed out and he resorted to verbal, mental, spiritual, and physical attacks The ",mannagawd" wasn't so much what he claimed to be.
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Just go down the road I’ve been told that you should be able to find one that doesn’t operate this way.
 
Bruh said:
Not me. I believe a pastor should live at the income level of the town he pastors.

If that’s 30k a year or 60k or 80k whatever the average income level in that town is.
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I think, in principle, he should be paid at a rate consistent with the size of the church, his experience, and his level of responsibility.

All other things being equal, why should the pastor of a church of , say, 500, be paid differently in a poor area than a wealthy one? He's doing the same work. "The labourer deserves his wages" (1 Tim. 5:18).

Conversely, if a poor church can't afford to pay a full-time pastor a decent enough wage to support his family and build up some equity, then they need to accept that he has a right, perhaps even an obligation, to be bivicational.
 
Ransom said:
I think, in principle, he should be paid at a rate consistent with the size of the church, his experience, and his level of responsibility.

All other things being equal, why should the pastor of a church of , say, 500, be paid differently in a poor area than a wealthy one? He's doing the same work. "The labourer deserves his wages" (1 Tim. 5:18).

Conversely, if a poor church can't afford to pay a full-time pastor a decent enough wage to support his family and build up some equity, then they need to accept that he has a right, perhaps even an obligation, to be bivicational.
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I think that’s fair.
 
What’s the name of the term for pastors who have full or part time jobs in addition to their ministerial jobs? Anyway, they sometimes exist in small, rural towns where the congregation can’t afford to compensate a minister on a full time basis. I know one guy who lives in a rural area of Idaho and is the pastor for a small church, but he also is a mailman. Before becoming a mailman, he used to drive about an hour to the nearest Walmart and worked a few days a week there in the sporting goods section.
 
The reality is if they wanna treat it like a job based on their experience, then they have to perform and Excel at their job just like everybody else does. If I want more money at my place of employment then I gotta make the company more money. Experience matters to the extent on how well you perform.

@Ransom @ALAYMAN what say you?
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
What’s the name of the term for pastors who have full or part time jobs in addition to their ministerial jobs? Anyway, they sometimes exist in small, rural towns where the congregation can’t afford to compensate a minister on a full time basis. I know one guy who lives in a rural area of Idaho and is the pastor for a small church, but he also is a mailman. Before becoming a mailman, he used to drive about an hour to the nearest Walmart and worked a few days a week there in the sporting goods section.
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Ransom answered that in his last response, though he fat-fingered the spelling, lol... bi-vocational.
 
Bruh said:
Just go down the road I’ve been told that you should be able to find one that doesn’t operate this way.
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Guess what the nature of the church he's talking about is? KJVo, mannagawd syndrome, etc. These churches are relatively easy to spot on their webpage info, or a quick visit. Just like when you buy a car, you have to do your homework before you go to sign the papers. Buyer beware.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Guess what the nature of the church he's talking about is? KJVo, mannagawd syndrome, etc. These churches are relatively easy to spot on their webpage info, or a quick visit. Just like when you buy a car, you have to do your homework before you go to sign the papers. Buyer beware.
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True. I believe that you’d be hard pressed to find an IFB church that doesn’t operate this way. There are far to many stories from many people across the country that say other wise.
 
Bruh said:
The reality is if they wanna treat it like a job based on their experience, then they have to perform and Excel at their job just like everybody else does. If I want more money at my place of employment then I gotta make the company more money. Experience matters to the extent on how well you perform.

@Ransom @ALAYMAN what say you?
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As generally true as that (performance) component of salary discussion is, your low-ball figure of a salary is part of many IFB churches problem mentality on this subject..."keep'em hungry".
 
ALAYMAN said:
As generally true as that (performance) component of salary discussion is, your low-ball figure of a salary is part of many IFB churches problem mentality on this subject..."keep'em hungry".
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I wasn’t low balling I was using those figures as an example. If the people make this much….whats wrong with the pastor making the same?
 
Bruh said:
True. I believe that you’d be hard pressed to find an IFB church that doesn’t operate this way. There are far to many stories from many people across the country that say other wise.
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I get that you've had some/many bad experiences, and I've related just as many good ones in my locale. Do you ever read Amazon (or other digital) reviews? It's a fairly well known phenomenon that people are apt to give detailed reviews on stuff when they perceive they've been burnt. Hyles-style churches leave ample scorched earth for such fertile complaining. Good IFB churches, not so much.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I get that you've had some/many bad experiences, and I've related just as many good ones in my locale. Do you ever read Amazon (or other digital) reviews? It's a fairly well known phenomenon that people are apt to give detailed reviews on stuff when they perceive they've been burnt. Hyles-style churches leave ample scorched earth for such fertile complaining. Good IFB churches, not so much.
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Perceived? See that right there is the actual problem.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Ok
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😂 I’m sorry but that sounds like the pastor of the last IFB church we went to. It’s always the people.

Hey, we agree to disagree.
 
i have never been a member of a baptist church... .. was saved through the bus ministry of one... and then i have visited baptist churches a few times with friends and distant family..... .. but was not moved to join... . ..in fact it was just the opposite.. ......
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
What’s the name of the term for pastors who have full or part time jobs in addition to their ministerial jobs?
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Either "bivocational," literally having two jobs; or, more colloquially, "tentmaking" (after Paul's habit of supporting his own ministry by plying his trade). The latter applies more to missionaries and evangelists than to clergy, but the principle is basically the same,

ALAYMAN said:
Ransom answered that in his last response, though he fat-fingered the spelling, lol... bi-vocational
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Didn't even notice, either.
 
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Bruh said:
The reality is if they wanna treat it like a job based on their experience, then they have to perform and Excel at their job just like everybody else does.
@Ransom @ALAYMAN what say you?
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Um ... yes?

You've just discovered the Protestant work ethic: that work, as an act of worship, should be done to the best of one's abilities.
 
Bruh said:
I wasn’t low balling I was using those figures as an example. If the people make this much….whats wrong with the pastor making the same?
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Nothing's wrong with the pastor making the same. My question is why it ought to be so as a matter of principle. Not all professions are equal. Would you apply the same principle to the salary of a doctor or lawyer?
 
Bruh said:
😂 I’m sorry but that sounds like the pastor of the last IFB church we went to. It’s always the people.

Hey, we agree to disagree.
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You seem a bit prone to hyperbolic misrepresentation. I never said anything of the sort about "it's always the people". I implied some people perceive slight when none is intended.

Let me give you an example. One of my favorite tv preachers was Adrian Rogers. He had a way of saying sharp quips with such Grace that people often didn't take offense, some of his speech being harsher than others.

For instance, he would say things like "if you're not a soulwinner then you're not right with God". I could see how somebody could take offense at that. But if you listen to the balance of his preaching, you'd know he cared about his people. Matter of fact, abcaines was a member/attendee of his church (and likewise no fan of the ministry style you don't care for), but I bet abcaines skin is thick enough to not take offense at challenges like Rogers often preached. In such a ministry one could perceive being attacked from the pulpit, when in reality they were merely being admonished to have a heart for Evangelism (ie, not be lukewarm).

And the whole point of that response that you decontextualized about "perception" was that your experiences, as mere anecdotal evidence, might not be representative of the totality of the picture regarding IFBs.
 
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