Dictatorial Preacher Rule - Where It All Began

[ALAYMAN]

It depends on who your king is. Is it Jesus? Or is it comfort and safety and retirement security. I am all for planning, I saved for retirement, but there's the question of "What were we left here for? If he saved us just so we could go to heaven, why doesn't he just rapture us the moment we're saved." Anyhow.

Where'd ya get that notion from?

 

[ALAYMAN]

You make some good points. I’ve had some bad experiences with pastors living above the average persons in their town and I just believe that’s wrong.

They were able to go on nice vacations and put back for retirement when the average person in the church couldn’t do either because they were giving 10% of their gross income, giving to missions and every other thing that had to do with the building programs and the such.

Were their needs met? Of course, because they worked 50-60 hours a week and didn’t have the house that the pastor and his family lived in.

Are there churches that do not operate this way? I don’t know, I haven’t walked into one that doesn’t.

I’m not bitter I’m not angry as some would say. At this point in my life I’m just scratching my head and saying….hold up, wait a minute, are y’all seeing what I’m seeing here

Unfortunately in my church, I have been there for over 25 years and never seen one of the three pastors during that tenure, retire and prosper in the way that you described above. Quite the opposite. They served in quiet submission to their calling and sacrificed financially. They were men that had been successful in business and other ventures and could have easily made a lot more money if they didn't answer the call. Some of them became bi-vocational when necessary.

I don't believe the teaching of tithing is a biblical New testament mandate. But I also believe that many Christians do exactly what you're saying about the pastors you've been acquainted with as they live comfortably on their income, to the detriment of giving to the work of the Gospel.

 

[Bruh]

Unfortunately in my church, I have been there for over 25 years and never seen one of the three pastors during that tenure, retire and prosper in the way that you described above. Quite the opposite. They served in quiet submission to their calling and sacrificed financially. They were men that had been successful in business and other ventures and could have easily made a lot more money if they didn't answer the call. Some of them became bi-vocational when necessary.

I don't believe the teaching of tithing is a biblical New testament mandate. But I also believe that many Christians do exactly what you're saying about the pastors you've been acquainted with as they live comfortably on their income, to the detriment of giving to the work of the Gospel.

Sad really. We like the church we go to now. No pressure as in, extra biblical, whatever.

it’s big though and I never would’ve thought I’d be saying that churches can get to big but I believe that now.

I don’t blame the leadership. What are they supposed to do tell the people….no I’m sorry you can’t come in only the first 150 people only

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Where'd ya get that notion from?

Probably heard it from Piper. I was there 15 years. He instilled in me a belief that Missions, the Great Commission is the task that Jesus left us here for. I don't disagree with Bruh, that we should live before people and be a consistent witness. I work for United healthcare. I also believe heartily that I should be involved in the task of getting the gospel to the nations as well as my neighbor. But there are ubengaged people groups. My daughter and son in law are trying to reach one. My son and his wife are preparing to go as well. But the rest of us stay here, and we give to help them do that task.

They're the goers. we are the senders. I love all of you guys and hope I don't come off as angry, ever.

 

[Bruh]

Where'd ya get that notion from?

I’d like to know how many square feet his house is. How about sell it and move into a 500sqft. House and whatever his salary is give 85% to missions. Look all I’m saying is you need to close your eyes and figure out that this world is not what we are to live for.

Oh I’m sorry that would be extreme now wouldn’t it. Take your retirement and give it all to missions. Oh I’m sorry that’s for other people.

Oh I already know you didn’t say it was wrong to save for retirement. So which is it? Give all to Christ or a portion?

People that talk this way usually have a nice nest egg. And if you would’ve been as diligent as they are you could’ve done both. As if all people have the same IQ and are able to make as much as others.

Again, not bitter or angry just have noticed these things the older I’ve gotten.

 

[Ekklesian]

I’d like to know how many square feet his house is. How about sell it and move into a 500sqft. House and whatever his salary is give 85% to missions. Look all I’m saying is you need to close your eyes and figure out that this world is not what we are to live for.

Oh I’m sorry that would be extreme now wouldn’t it. Take your retirement and give it all to missions. Oh I’m sorry that’s for other people.

Oh I already know you didn’t say it was wrong to save for retirement. So which is it? Give all to Christ or a portion?

People that talk this way usually have a nice nest egg. And if you would’ve been as diligent as they are you could’ve done both. As if all people have the same IQ and are able to make as much as others.

Again, not bitter or angry just have noticed these things the older I’ve gotten.

God loveth a cheerful giver. If you can't turn loose of it, God would rather you keep it.

 

[Bruh]

God loveth a cheerful giver. If you can't turn loose of it, God would rather you keep it.

True.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I’d like to know how many square feet his house is. How about sell it and move into a 500sqft. House and whatever his salary is give 85% to missions. Look all I’m saying is you need to close your eyes and figure out that this world is not what we are to live for.

Oh I’m sorry that would be extreme now wouldn’t it. Take your retirement and give it all to missions. Oh I’m sorry that’s for other people.

Oh I already know you didn’t say it was wrong to save for retirement. So which is it? Give all to Christ or a portion?

People that talk this way usually have a nice nest egg. And if you would’ve been as diligent as they are you could’ve done both. As if all people have the same IQ and are able to make as much as others.

Again, not bitter or angry just have noticed these things the older I’ve gotten.

I think you may be mischaracterizing Piper's position. He wasn't saying "Give everything you have" or, "give more than the guy next to you", nor was he saying "give beyond your ability". He was simply saying don't tune out of giving/supporting the gospel just because you get old and quit your day job.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

I’d like to know how many square feet his house is. How about sell it and move into a 500sqft. House and whatever his salary is give 85% to missions. Look all I’m saying is you need to close your eyes and figure out that this world is not what we are to live for.

Oh I’m sorry that would be extreme now wouldn’t it. Take your retirement and give it all to missions. Oh I’m sorry that’s for other people.

Oh I already know you didn’t say it was wrong to save for retirement. So which is it? Give all to Christ or a portion?

People that talk this way usually have a nice nest egg. And if you would’ve been as diligent as they are you could’ve done both. As if all people have the same IQ and are able to make as much as others.

Again, not bitter or angry just have noticed these things the older I’ve gotten.

Piper? He lives it. He has never taken one penny of any book royalties. He could be a multi millionaire. He has always given away books for free or whatever people can afford at both the church bookstore and their website. And he lives in the hood and has in the same house for 45 years. He has the smallest salary of anyone at Desiring God (it's public), his current employer, and I know he helps street people all the time. And here's his house in the hood. It's basic.