David Baker arrested

[Ekklesian]

wrong...... ..according to the law it is supposed to be reasonable women applying justice and judgement who evaluate whether another woman was a willing participant ........

having other men attempt to judge whether a woman willingly took part in an activity where she has the most to risk and the most to lose... is like having a jury of cats decide whether a mouse willingly offered itself to one of their fellow cats for dinner.....

You haven't cited the law. I don't think it's there in the form you're suggesting, and I've too little time to pore over those tomes, (though the abstract in one makes no bones about its Feminist agenda).

But if it's something only women can discern, then you've rendered every man guiltless.

God says scream. In other words, even a dog should know.

 

[Jo]

Their actions will help in that decision, past and present. Far too many women are getting by with being willing participants, and falsely accusing the man. I had a sister-in-law like this. Thankfully people woke up to her scheming and gold-digging. I would expect you, being a woman, to chime in in defense of all women....who decides they're not? You? Your bias is showing.

From one Jo to another, I just asked the question. I'm afraid it's your bias that's showing.

 

[aleshanee]

You haven't cited the law. I don't think it's there in the form you're suggesting, and I've too little time to pore over those tomes, (though the abstract in one makes no bones about its Feminist agenda).

But if it's something only women can discern, then you've rendered every man guiltless.

God says scream. In other words, even a dog would know.

if feminism is the belief that women should not be expected to submit themselves to knuckle dragging neanderthals just because they have a different plumbing than we do...... then maybe so.... ... ..and if feminism means women should use their brains and not take an action that would lead to their death or get them beaten down over the course of being raped or threatened with such by said knuckle draggers... then definitely.... ...

but then some fundamentalists..... and some men who are not even christian - but rather adherents to bushido...extreme judaism... islam.... and various idiots of the samarai mindset that hawaii is becoming flooded with - believe that if a woman is raped - no matter what the circumstances were - then she is better off dead anyway.... i had it said about me a couple of times here on the old forum about 15 years ago...

over the past couple of years you and i have found quite a few things we agree on.... . but this will never be one of them...... i have to agree with those who say you do not have a healthy respect for women... .. in fact..... the last sentence in your post above could indicate you view some of us as less than a dog.......

 

[Ransom]

And who pray tell decides if they were a willing participant?

A judge and jury.

A rape accusation is a criminal accusation, and the courts are the place to try criminal accusations. Not social media, the pastor, unqualified academic bureaucrats, or cable news. Presuming the guilt of a student, sports figure, or Supreme Court nominee in the media isn't justice, it's a miscarriage of it.

 

[abcaines]

The Fallen in Grace website today: https://www.falleningrace.com/

 

[Ekklesian]

the last sentence in your post above could indicate you view some of us as less than a dog.......

I've edited it. I used hyperbole to make the point that the protest and resistance should be so obvious...and I think you know that.

 

[AverageJoe]

From one Jo to another, I just asked the question. I'm afraid it's your bias that's showing.

Sincerely doubtful. I have no bias when it comes to the subject. I do, however, know when someone IS showing bias. All it takes is seeing all the posts you've made in these forums. Since you've accused me of having a bias PROVE IT or apologize.

 

[Ekklesian]

i have to agree with those who say you do not have a healthy respect for women...

right.

 

[aleshanee]

I've edited it. I used hyperbole to make the point that the protest and resistance should be so obvious...and I think you know that.

to be clear i was not talking about jugges or jurys when i said a a reasonable woman was needed to evaluate whether another had a case when a complain of sexual abuse is made.... i was talking about investigations occuring before it ever gets that far... the kind of work done to determine if there is even a case worth making.......... .i thought the person that should be was outlined in the law..... but i might have been wrong about that.... either way i can;t find it.......

the statutes were revised a while back - even before 2021 - to remove gender specific language... i know i saw it written at least once in statute form ... and heard it many times while attending classes after college..... it was clear that in sexual harassment complainst the complaint itself should be evaluated by a reasonable person or persons of the same gender as the complainant to determine if the complaint is valid....... .....in other words ..and in case of women complaining against men.. to determine if the average reasonable woman would have reacted the same way she did.... ... that is not the same as a grand jury but a determination made in the prosecutors office before it ever gets that far..... .

i made the mistake this afternoon of asking someone here at home who could have found a statute for me, while she had a few spare minutes.. .. and she asked me what in the #### am i still doing messing around with this forum......

she use to be on the fff herself once but has been telling me for years it;s a waste of my time and to stay off it...... she added that what i;m looking for is probably not written as i remember it anymore due to the changes made that removed gender language... .. and that she remembers it being written in as a policy to follow.. and that it is still followed as policy here... but which was not an actual law.......

but anyway.... there it is........ i was probably wrong about it being an actual law... . but it was and still is a policy in deciding if complaints are worthy of action or referal beyond the prosecutors office... ... ..... and i still maintain what i said before that men should not be judging whether or not a womans complaint of sexual harrassment - abuse - or rape ...should be considered valid and truthful.... ......where no material evidence exists alleged offenses should be viewed from the perspective of the one offended... ..

 

[Bruh]

LOL. I know what God says, and that's enough. Now you do too, but don't let that interfere with your virtue signaling.

It seems you are claiming that there is basically only one reason that a woman can claim rape. And that is, if there is a struggle. You live in La La land. My wife told me that there’re men like you and I’ve often told her, I find that hard to believe.

Maybe the married woman isn’t struggling physically with her husband but she knows good and well to submit, to do her duty or else.

There are many many women that have no where to go or no one to call. This is a huge problem in the Christian world. Christians believe there’s a one size fit all answer to any given situation, this being rape.

Just do 1,2,3 and your problem is solved. As if all rape situations are exactly the same.

You have no real world experience and live in a bubble.

 

[Ekklesian]

It seems you are claiming that there is basically only one reason that a woman can claim rape. And that is, if there is a struggle. You live in La La land. My wife told me that there’re men like you and I’ve often told her, I find that hard to believe.

Maybe the married woman isn’t struggling physically with her husband but she knows good and well to submit, to do her duty or else.

There are many many women that have no where to go or no one to call. This is a huge problem in the Christian world. Christians believe there’s a one size fit all answer to any given situation, this being rape.

Just do 1,2,3 and your problem is solved. As if all rape situations are exactly the same.

You have no real world experience and live in a bubble.

Well, you're simply not thinking, and it doesn't seem to me you're willing to. We can take the discussion to the real life cases I linked to where the assertions of coercion can be evaluated, or you can stay here and beat the air.

 

[Jo]

A judge and jury.

A rape accusation is a criminal accusation, and the courts are the place to try criminal accusations. Not social media, the pastor, unqualified academic bureaucrats, or cable news. Presuming the guilt of a student, sports figure, or Supreme Court nominee in the media isn't justice, it's a miscarriage of it.

That's IF a person reports it, of course.

I'm thinking about a man who assumes that a woman is being salacious and sinks his fangs into her, or a pastor like Jack Schaap going after a minor.

 

[sword]

so..... according to you... a woman has to either be beaten up or risk being killed by a man before she can be believed?......... again..... i say... neither you or any other man saying these kinds of things read what i wrote asking them to imagine being robbed by someone twice their size... 3 times their muscle mass... and being told to keep quiet about it...... ... and no... .don;t tell me you could macho man your way through a situation like that or pull out a gun and get away with it.... ... the man i was describing would be well armed himself and also protected by a corrupt organization which included the police.. .. so you would be at his mercy no matter how you looked at it .............. ..

but the problem is men won;t look at it.... they can;t imagine it because as a man they claim they never feel at the mercy of anyone.... . (or else they simply refuse to admit it..)...... but women are at the mercy of men everywhere they go ... and often whether they know it or not.... ....... .sure we can arm ourselves and take self defense classes but wouldn;t it be better if men with a predadtory nature are held accountable for what they do?.. thus making hotel room shootouts and sidewalk knife fights unnecessary?............

Read it at least 6 times. I understand exactly what you were saying.

Yes preditors need to be arrested, convicted and thrown in jail for a long time. I understand victims never get over the assult as long as they live regardless to counseling and time.

My point is when it's something that happened in a hotel room, late at night with no witnesses, it very difficult to know who is telling the truth. That's why I would recommend women not enter another mans hotel room under any circumstances.

 

[Jo]

Sincerely doubtful. I have no bias when it comes to the subject. I do, however, know when someone IS showing bias. All it takes is seeing all the posts you've made in these forums. Since you've accused me of having a bias PROVE IT or apologize.

You want me to apologize or prove it? We don't know each other at all. You think you can read my mind and that I'm biased based on my posts. You think what you want about me. I'm not wasting my time.

 

[sword]

so..... according to you... a woman has to either be beaten up or risk being killed by a man before she can be believed?......... again..... i say... neither you or any other man saying these kinds of things read what i wrote asking them to imagine being robbed by someone twice their size... 3 times their muscle mass... and being told to keep quiet about it...... ... and no... .don;t tell me you could macho man your way through a situation like that or pull out a gun and get away with it.... ... the man i was describing would be well armed himself and also protected by a corrupt organization which included the police.. .. so you would be at his mercy no matter how you looked at it .............. ..

but the problem is men won;t look at it.... they can;t imagine it because as a man they claim they never feel at the mercy of anyone.... . (or else they simply refuse to admit it..)...... but women are at the mercy of men everywhere they go ... and often whether they know it or not.... ....... .sure we can arm ourselves and take self defense classes but wouldn;t it be better if men with a predadtory nature are held accountable for what they do?.. thus making hotel room shootouts and sidewalk knife fights unnecessary?............

Sorry,
I thought you were referring to the judicial system (Judge and Jury) when the suspect is indicted and tried then convicted by a jury of his peers. From my first comment I said as a juror, my whole discussion was as a juror. The person on trial is the person who is required to be judged by a jury of his peers or a judge if he so chooses. I completely misunerstood what you meant in the quotes below. I thought you were refering to a criminal court.

I think we generally agree, I'm just saying as a juror faced with a standard of reasonable doubt there are some situations that are difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt without physical evidence. The burden of proof is always on the accuser not the defendant. This is to protect the innocent from those who may falsely accuse them

Your quotes:

laws and standards currently in place - the validity of complaints and reports of sexual abuse - sexual harassment and rape are to be evaluated by reasonable people or good character who are also of the same gender as the victim.

wrong...... ..according to the law it is supposed to be reasonable women applying justice and judgement who evaluate whether another woman was a willing participant ........

having other men attempt to judge whether a woman willingly took part in an activity where she has the most to risk and the most to lose... is like having a jury of cats decide whether a mouse willingly offered itself to one of their fellow cats for dinner.....
and seriously.... can a man and woman be considered "peers"?...... and should they be in a case involving accusatons of sexual abuse?............ if you were accused of something like that would you like to be judged by a jury consisting entirely of women

just like the accusations against the accused are to be judged by a jury of his peers

 

[Ransom]

That's IF a person reports it, of course.

Same thing applies.

A contemporary application of Deut. 22:23-27 might be something along the lines of: if there is no police complaint, there is no crime. Police detectives, prosecutors, judges and juries are the parties who determine whether a crime has been committed. Rape is too serious to be left to the "court of public opinion" or a whispering campaign by the victim's friends. That's not justice. It's lynching.

I realize women don't always report sexual assaults out of fear of their attackers, fear of consequences, and so forth. But while it may be a psychologically complex issue, it's not morally complex at all.

I'm thinking about a man who assumes that a woman is being salacious and sinks his fangs into her, or a pastor like Jack Schaap going after a minor.

I can't really comment on your hypothetical fanged man, but Jack Schaap spent a decade in federal prison for going after a minor, because someone reported him to the police instead of leaving it in the hands of the (corrupt) church. Unlike some members of the Hyles crime family, his opportunity to become a repeat offender has been severely mitigated.

 

[Bruh]

Well, you're simply not thinking, and it doesn't seem to me you're willing to. We can take the discussion to the real life cases I linked to where the assertions of coercion can be evaluated, or you can stay here and beat the air.

When I have time I will read ur links. If you can, do me a favor and post them again. Thanks!

Don’t think for one second that what I’m tell you isn’t real world situations.

 

[Bruh]

You want me to apologize or prove it? We don't know each other at all. You think you can read my mind and that I'm biased based on my posts. You think what you want about me. I'm not wasting my time.

Joe takes himself to serious to be asking for an apology on the FFF

 

[AverageJoe]

You want me to apologize or prove it? We don't know each other at all. You think you can read my mind and that I'm biased based on my posts. You think what you want about me. I'm not wasting my time.

Cornered after accusing others she slinks away...how did I know this was going to happen? Geesh@

 

[Jo]

Cornered after accusing others she slinks away...how did I know this was going to happen? Geesh@

It appears that you have more time than me and enjoy being rude. In my opinion, a person who throws accusations around lacks insight into his own problems.