Dave Baker Muslims unite with Baptists

[16KJV11]

Has anyone here gone on Facebook and asked Dave to explain these things?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I am going to add Dave to my prayer list. Having 11 children is very commendable and a good start on a house church, that would be 13 members with him and his wife.

I believe he probably was beguiled by the fast talking Hollywood types and did not realize what was happening. They gave him a plausible way out of his financial mess and he jumped at it. Someone before said he was not a bad guy and I would tend to agree.

From reading the chapter 11 filing it sure didn't sound like he was enriching himself rather his financial condition was extremely grave.

I would guess that this is accurate, from my limited knowledge of the situation.  Still, some who have lost so much, would be pretty upset.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Here is the testimony Jan 8, 2013 in the Freddie Marshall Carson sentencing hearing by a victim a Mr. John Young.
I quote,

Case 3:12-cr-00017 Document 36 Filed 05/01/13

"MR. YOUNG: Your Honor, upon my first meeting
with Mr. Carson I was asked if money was not an issue,
what would you do with your life? I answered I would
use my time and talents for Christ.
Mr. Carson preyed on the trust a son has for
the advice of his father, a Christian has for the advice
of his pastor and the trust one has with lifelong
friends.
Mr. Carson has preyed on the Christian's desire
to use his time, talents and finances to advance the
cause of Christ. Mr. Carson has used these bonds of
trust and desire to gain access to my savings, the
savings of my family, of my lifelong friends and their
friends for his own deceit.
Instead of using the funds to start a Christian
business or advance the cause of Christ, he used the
funds to live lavishly in a million dollar home which he
used to show his work to prospective investors; to enjoy
frequent vacations; anniversary trips and a lifestyle of
luxury on other people's money.
Financially I have lost 70,000. I also lent my
brother 10,000 who gave an additional 50,000 to Carson,
as there was always a need for more money to "close the
deal."
I had no more money to give so I introduced
Mr. Carson to a lifelong friend whose initial investment
was 75,000. My friend and his relationships were a new
revenue source for Carson.
Socially I have suffered. My marriage has
suffered the stress that debt brings. My wife has lost
faith in the decisions I have made for the family
waiting for Mr. Carson to move us to Nashville. I lost
four years waiting for Mr. Carson to move us and the
last three years trying to restore my wife's confidence
in me.
My children have suffered as a result of
uncertainly, not knowing if or when we would move. Two
of my children suffered the embarrassment of being
financially withdrawn from college. Family ties have
strained as debts to one another go unpaid. Friends of
a lifetime have distanced themselves because they were
told that they had lost their money because I had gone
to the authorities.
My family and friends have lost their savings.
Some have lost homes and some their marriages, as a
result of losing money to Mr. Carson. I have carried
the burden of losing my family savings. My family lost
four years of stability, as I waited on Carson to hire
me. I also carried the fear that a lifelong friend
might be indicted along with Carson.
I worried for my family when Pastor Baker and a
close friend passed on a threat that if I went to the
authorities that terrible things would happen to me and
my family. I ended up filing a police report against my
friend in case anything happened to us.
Your Honor, it is in this arena that we seek
justice and equity. My family and I have suffered, as a
result of my dealings with Mr. Carson. I cannot regain
the lost money or lost time with my family. I
respectfully ask that you give Mr. Carson the longest
sentence that the law will allow. It would be an
injustice for victims to suffer longer than the one who
caused their suffering.
Please execute a just judgment.
Thank you."

A little info about Mr. Carson from the Judge.

I quote,

"Paragraph 17 from a victim impact statement
notes that the loss in the case, as counsel for the
government noted, is over a million dollars, as
reflected in the Plea Agreement. Paragraph 17 further
notes it appears the defendant owes a total amount of
restitution of $717,372.32.
Paragraph 68 sets forth by victim named
initials the amount of loss of various victims which the
Court notes ranges from amounts as low as $1,500 up to
amounts exceeding $65,000 per victim.
With respect to the history and characteristics
of the defendant, as noted, the defendant has no
previous criminal history thereby resulting in a
criminal history category of I.
He is currently, I believe, 45-years old. He
has a bachelor's degree education. The defendant is
married and has four children. He graduated from high
school in South Carolina in 1984, attended Johns Hopkins
University, graduated from Texas Baptist College in
Longview, Texas."

Link to transcript

http://documents.tips/documents/freddie-marshall-carson-transcript.html

 

[Binaca Chugger]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

 

[Walt]

We have seen this very type of financial fraud up close and personal. (TK)  Many people had their lives destroyed and their retirement stolen, never to be restored. One man I'm thinking of died shortly after finding out his whole retirement fund had been wiped out with TK's ponzi scheme. Many others that I know personally lost large sums to TK and his used car scheme.

Not to excuse the main villian of the piece, but people need to take responsibility for their own greed.  Promises of a "guaranteed" 1000% return really are too good to be true, and someone investing his entire life savings in order to get that kind of return.

 

[TidesofTruth]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

Not wanting to play devil's advocate here (because he has quite enough advocates) but the threat could have come in the form of discussing the dangers of taking another Christian to secular court, which is used heavily in spiritual abuse but nonetheless a warning from Paul not to do.  Then it would have been a faux theological threat instead of a physical one.  Still abusive. Still wrong but a bit different than might be indicated of the need to file a police report. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

Not wanting to play devil's advocate here (because he has quite enough advocates) but the threat could have come in the form of discussing the dangers of taking another Christian to secular court, which is used heavily in spiritual abuse but nonetheless a warning from Paul not to do.  Then it would have been a faux theological threat instead of a physical one.  Still abusive. Still wrong but a bit different than might be indicated of the need to file a police report.

True. The threat could have been that God will kill you if you go to law against another Christian. I sure have heard that before. John Young was the only victim that testified at the sentencing although there were a few dozen more who may have been too scared to speak out of their fear of the wrath of God falling upon them or their families.

The police report does make it sound more like a threat of physical violence from another human though.

 

[TidesofTruth]

We have seen this very type of financial fraud up close and personal. (TK)  Many people had their lives destroyed and their retirement stolen, never to be restored. One man I'm thinking of died shortly after finding out his whole retirement fund had been wiped out with TK's ponzi scheme. Many others that I know personally lost large sums to TK and his used car scheme.

It is incumbent on those that know about these schemes to warn others so that they may rather avoid them, instead of being sucked in by some religious sounding charlatan using God's work as his cover to operate with impunity and do his dirty deeds.

Those of us familiar with FBCH know this all to well and can name and have known personally many of these guys over the years.

It is particularly damaging when the scheme is promoted and exploited by the one who is to be shepherding the sheep, but is instead preying on them as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Hiding behind the Bible for monetary gain or immoral advantage is so evil.

It is the job of all Christians to cry out against it and make it know to others so they do not become ensnared in the wiles of the devil.

There are still those at FBCH that practice these things.  Many have lost money and those that are already known to have cheated others in these scams should be held accountable by the church.  We still have a wee little man who ran real estate schemes running around unchecked, and unrepentant with wreck and ruin as bad as TK.

Many years ago I learned first hand about these church "Amway" schemes and I made a policy for myself.  I have been asked about everything from healthcare products to insurance investments to TK's frauds to get involved.  I simply say "I have made it a policy that I never invest in "church" financial investment opportunities".  Shuts them down right then and there.

I will hire for wages or work for wages with people in the church anytime if worthy of either but these schemes are not and they are not wage based.  They are fantasy.

I also place much blame on the investor.  There are several key factors. 

1.  God has a manner to earn money and true investments are not get rich quick schemes
2.  The old adage "buyer beware"  places the onus on the buyer to do their due diligence and not believe the one selling at face value ever.
3.  When we use lotteries or get rich quick schemes and not following Godly principals for earning money to me it feels like we are telling God we are not satisfied with His provision. 

 

[Bruh]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

Not wanting to play devil's advocate here (because he has quite enough advocates) but the threat could have come in the form of discussing the dangers of taking another Christian to secular court, which is used heavily in spiritual abuse but nonetheless a warning from Paul not to do.  Then it would have been a faux theological threat instead of a physical one.  Still abusive. Still wrong but a bit different than might be indicated of the need to file a police report.

If he filed a police report, the man was scared, physically.

2nd, God in his goodness knows not to put men like this in my path. I would've cleaned that dudes clock so fast...........threatened his wife and kids, you're  out of ur mind.

Men like this need to be taught a lesson!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

Not wanting to play devil's advocate here (because he has quite enough advocates) but the threat could have come in the form of discussing the dangers of taking another Christian to secular court, which is used heavily in spiritual abuse but nonetheless a warning from Paul not to do.  Then it would have been a faux theological threat instead of a physical one.  Still abusive. Still wrong but a bit different than might be indicated of the need to file a police report.

If he filed a police report, the man was scared, physically.

2nd, God in his goodness knows not to put men like this in my path. I would've cleaned that dudes clock so fast...........threatened his wife and kids, you're  out of ur mind.

Men like this need to be taught a lesson!

May take into consideration that DB is former military.  I think special forces or airborne, but my memory might be failing me.  Either way, it could have factored into the implied intimidation that was felt.

 

[Bruh]

WHOAH!!!

Dave Baker threatened the witness!!!  The witness was so fearful of the threat by Dave Baker that he filed a police report!!!

So much for a nice guy.....

Not wanting to play devil's advocate here (because he has quite enough advocates) but the threat could have come in the form of discussing the dangers of taking another Christian to secular court, which is used heavily in spiritual abuse but nonetheless a warning from Paul not to do.  Then it would have been a faux theological threat instead of a physical one.  Still abusive. Still wrong but a bit different than might be indicated of the need to file a police report.

If he filed a police report, the man was scared, physically.

2nd, God in his goodness knows not to put men like this in my path. I would've cleaned that dudes clock so fast...........threatened his wife and kids, you're  out of ur mind.

Men like this need to be taught a lesson!

May take into consideration that DB is former military.  I think special forces or airborne, but my memory might be failing me.  Either way, it could have factored into the implied intimidation that was felt.

You're probably right.

But I got a couple billy clubs, one in my truck, one in my wife's car and one on the side of my bed

 

[bgwilkinson]

We have seen this very type of financial fraud up close and personal. (TK)  Many people had their lives destroyed and their retirement stolen, never to be restored. One man I'm thinking of died shortly after finding out his whole retirement fund had been wiped out with TK's ponzi scheme. Many others that I know personally lost large sums to TK and his used car scheme.

It is incumbent on those that know about these schemes to warn others so that they may rather avoid them, instead of being sucked in by some religious sounding charlatan using God's work as his cover to operate with impunity and do his dirty deeds.

Those of us familiar with FBCH know this all to well and can name and have known personally many of these guys over the years.

It is particularly damaging when the scheme is promoted and exploited by the one who is to be shepherding the sheep, but is instead preying on them as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Hiding behind the Bible for monetary gain or immoral advantage is so evil.

It is the job of all Christians to cry out against it and make it know to others so they do not become ensnared in the wiles of the devil.

There are still those at FBCH that practice these things.  Many have lost money and those that are already known to have cheated others in these scams should be held accountable by the church.  We still have a wee little man who ran real estate schemes running around unchecked, and unrepentant with wreck and ruin as bad as TK.

Many years ago I learned first hand about these church "Amway" schemes and I made a policy for myself.  I have been asked about everything from healthcare products to insurance investments to TK's frauds to get involved.  I simply say "I have made it a policy that I never invest in "church" financial investment opportunities".  Shuts them down right then and there.

I will hire for wages or work for wages with people in the church anytime if worthy of either but these schemes are not and they are not wage based.  They are fantasy.

I also place much blame on the investor.  There are several key factors. 

1.  God has a manner to earn money and true investments are not get rich quick schemes
2.  The old adage "buyer beware"  places the onus on the buyer to do their due diligence and not believe the one selling at face value ever.
3.  When we use lotteries or get rich quick schemes and not following Godly principals for earning money to me it feels like we are telling God we are not satisfied with His provision.

It sure sounds like Mr. John Young took some rather deep and long drinks of the Cool Aid served up by Dave Baker and his friends.

 

[Tennessean]

Does anyone know why his Bio on the online college says Dave started Lighthouse Baptist in 1993?

link

http://www.ibaptistcollege.org/faculty/dr-david-baker/


SOS web site says Initial Filing Date: 11/04/1974, that's a bit before 1993.

How could he start a church in 1993 when the entity was created in 1974?

This just keeps getting more and more interesting the more digging I do.

Anyone have any info on what is going on?

BG,

Let me try to fill in this gap with what was told me. Bob Gray was preaching there and Bob Marshall was holding a regional alumni meeting. Bob told me that the original property and building of Lighthouse church in Columbia had been started by a TTU graduate in the 70's and he never could quite get things going. Dave Baker then obtained the property and if so, it would explain how he acquired the non profit corporation status. 

Dave did file bankruptcy. The bank repossessed the building. It developed mold and had to be torn down last year. Dave posted pictures of the demolition on facebook.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Does anyone know why his Bio on the online college says Dave started Lighthouse Baptist in 1993?

link

http://www.ibaptistcollege.org/faculty/dr-david-baker/


SOS web site says Initial Filing Date: 11/04/1974, that's a bit before 1993.

How could he start a church in 1993 when the entity was created in 1974?

This just keeps getting more and more interesting the more digging I do.

Anyone have any info on what is going on?

BG,

Let me try to fill in this gap with what was told me. Bob Gray was preaching there and Bob Marshall was holding a regional alumni meeting. Bob told me that the original property and building of Lighthouse church in Columbia had been started by a TTU graduate in the 70's and he never could quite get things going. Dave Baker then obtained the property and if so, it would explain how he acquired the non profit corporation status. 

Dave did file bankruptcy. The bank repossessed the building. It developed mold and had to be torn down last year. Dave posted pictures of the demolition on Facebook.

Thanks for the info, it looks to me like they received the property in 1993 from the not for profit Emmanuel-Lighthouse Baptist Church and changed the name to just Lighthouse Baptist Church.

So the claim to having started Lighthouse could be made but should have been with an asterisk explaining what happened otherwise it calls into question his credibility and honesty.

Yes we have the voluntary chapter 11 reorganization listed but are you saying that the chapter 11 was converted into a chapter 7 total liquidation? Again the voluntary chapter 11 is an acceptable way of handling ones creditors.

The question still remains why is the Lighthouse Baptist Church still a viable corp listed with the SOS Tennessee if it was dissolved as Lurker claimed?

Here is a bit on Church bankruptcies if anyone is interested where the Lighthouse case is mentioned, I quote from p 764 of the MISSOURI LAW REVIEW.

"Original Disclosure Statement Describing Original Chapter 11 Plan, In re
Lighthouse Baptist Church of Columbia, No. 11-01626 (Bankr. M.D. Tenn. Feb.
21, 2011), Doc. 24 (explaining how a pastor left the congregation, leading to a
decrease in membership)"

Now it would be pertinent to know who the pastor was that left the congregation causing a decrease in membership.

http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2274&context=facpub

Thanks again for the additional info.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Does anyone know why his Bio on the online college says Dave started Lighthouse Baptist in 1993?

link

http://www.ibaptistcollege.org/faculty/dr-david-baker/


SOS web site says Initial Filing Date: 11/04/1974, that's a bit before 1993.

How could he start a church in 1993 when the entity was created in 1974?

This just keeps getting more and more interesting the more digging I do.

Anyone have any info on what is going on?

BG,

Let me try to fill in this gap with what was told me. Bob Gray was preaching there and Bob Marshall was holding a regional alumni meeting. Bob told me that the original property and building of Lighthouse church in Columbia had been started by a TTU graduate in the 70's and he never could quite get things going. Dave Baker then obtained the property and if so, it would explain how he acquired the non profit corporation status. 

Dave did file bankruptcy. The bank repossessed the building. It developed mold and had to be torn down last year. Dave posted pictures of the demolition on facebook.

Which means he took a church, he didn't start a church and falsified his resume for his perceived increase in statute asking his peers.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Itwasme]

Saw this on Google

We were behind the FBI indicting Freddie Marshall Dawson in Tennessee

David baker in our opinion is pure evil. A cult master not a man of God. We are entitled to that opinion.

Basically the story goes like this. Carson was An affinity fraudster who was selling scams to churches. His criminal conviction speaks for itself. Well, he got cozy with "pastor baker" to a point baker named one of his children "Carson"

So the story is Carson promised baker riches (there is audio of it) and then many members of the lighthouse baptism church were put into financial ruins. The church equity was loaned out on with I think it was 4  members personally guaranteeing the debt.

The money never came despite Carson claiming "the money is on its way" or some type of variation. Yet the members still believed and still believe to this day either the money is on its way or the devil was behind the money not arriving, so much to a point a Florida Attorny would get death threats.

Anyway the church went bankrupt and it would have been a lot worse but for baker telling people Christians don't sue Christians,  in our opinion lots more people would have been indicted but for the silence of the members who were victims. The FBI did a great job and there were people able to infiltrate the church to get the one guy,

I'll hang around to answer questions the best I can

Bless you all