Christian Education

brainisengaged

brainisengaged

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Pastor was out of town this Weds, and we had a speaker who is an expert in the area of Christian Education share his (or rather, The Bible's) philosophy of Christian education.

It is hard to recall exact words, and anyone else who was there -- feel free to correct or add to what I am saying.

The main point was understanding why we believe in Christian education. The speaker stated that some years ago he was in a meeting with Christian educators. One pastor was a little discouraged, his school was financially suffering and it was weighing heavy...the pastor asked, "Why do we have Christian schools?" and it wasn't a rhetorical question, he was really truly wondering. Our speaker declined to answer the question, as he felt he was a 'junior man' at the meeting...but when it became apparent to him that no one knew the answer, he did speak up and give basically the points he was to give us tonight. And he silenced the room. (his words)

The text is Exodus 18:13-22. Moses is judging the people, Jethro asks "What are you doing?" Not questioning the fact he was judging the people, but rather questioning his methodology.

The application is that this text is the Biblical mandate for setting up Christian schools. Just as the job of Moses was to be close to God and make the people know the truth of God (all of this is paraphrased from what the speaker said), the job of the teacher is to make the students know the truth. To teach them our philosophy, our way of life, our faith, and culture. (v. 20..."thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.")

Then, the application is that this text shows how schools are a chain-of-command type situation. ("provide out of all the people able men (i.e. teachers), such as fear God, (fear is the starting point of Christian obedience. When you fear God, you realize He can do anything He wants to you in order to get you to do what you are supposed to do, so if you fear Him, you will do it)men of truth, hating covetousness (the point made here was that our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy. The speaker proudly pointed out his wife after 30 years of teaching makes $13,000 / year. This proves our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy); and place such over them to be rulers...etc.

Then the main point that he made was this: He stated unequivocally that the command to educate was never given to Dad. It was given to the church. He said education is the responsibility, the mandate of the church. In Acts 7:38 ("church in the wilderness") it is proven that the church is to have the responsibility of education. Because, it is proved that the purpose of Moses as the judge of Israel and the only one who was close to God (similar to our role, Pastor) was to educate Israel on all matters of ordinances, laws, etc...and the gathering in the wilderness was actually a church...therefore education is the mandate of the church.

Thoughts?

It was
 
“Now this is the commandment—the statutes and the rules—that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, that you may fear the LORD your God, you and your son and your son's son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be long. Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

“And when the LORD your God brings you into the land that he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give you—with great and good cities that you did not build, and houses full of all good things that you did not fill, and cisterns that you did not dig, and vineyards and olive trees that you did not plant—and when you eat and are full, then take care lest you forget the LORD, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. It is the LORD your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear. You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you—for the LORD your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the LORD your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.

“You shall not put the LORD your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah. You shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies and his statutes, which he has commanded you. And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the LORD, that it may go well with you, and that you may go in and take possession of the good land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers by thrusting out all your enemies from before you, as the LORD has promised.

“When your son asks you in time to come, ‘What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the rules that the LORD our God has commanded you?’ then you shall say to your son, ‘We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt. And the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. And the LORD showed signs and wonders, great and grievous, against Egypt and against Pharaoh and all his household, before our eyes. And he brought us out from there, that he might bring us in and give us the land that he swore to give to our fathers. And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as we are this day. And it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to do all this commandment before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us.’

(Deuteronomy 6 ESV)

 
image.png
 
brainisengaged said:
And he silenced the room. (his words)
Click to expand...

Sometimes silencing a room isn't a good thing. Sometimes, what you said is so retarded that everybody listening forgot how to talk.
 
When people get strange on doctrine, it usually comes from them cherry picking something from Israel in the Wilderness or the OT and trying to apply it to the church or to us.
 
I have a really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really

hard time with these type so called sermons. 
 
brainisengaged said:
Pastor was out of town this Weds, and we had a speaker who is an expert in the area of Christian Education share his (or rather, The Bible's) philosophy of Christian education.

It is hard to recall exact words, and anyone else who was there -- feel free to correct or add to what I am saying.

The main point was understanding why we believe in Christian education. The speaker stated that some years ago he was in a meeting with Christian educators. One pastor was a little discouraged, his school was financially suffering and it was weighing heavy...the pastor asked, "Why do we have Christian schools?" and it wasn't a rhetorical question, he was really truly wondering. Our speaker declined to answer the question, as he felt he was a 'junior man' at the meeting...but when it became apparent to him that no one knew the answer, he did speak up and give basically the points he was to give us tonight. And he silenced the room. (his words)

The text is Exodus 18:13-22. Moses is judging the people, Jethro asks "What are you doing?" Not questioning the fact he was judging the people, but rather questioning his methodology.

The application is that this text is the Biblical mandate for setting up Christian schools. Just as the job of Moses was to be close to God and make the people know the truth of God (all of this is paraphrased from what the speaker said), the job of the teacher is to make the students know the truth. To teach them our philosophy, our way of life, our faith, and culture. (v. 20..."thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.")

Then, the application is that this text shows how schools are a chain-of-command type situation. ("provide out of all the people able men (i.e. teachers), such as fear God, (fear is the starting point of Christian obedience. When you fear God, you realize He can do anything He wants to you in order to get you to do what you are supposed to do, so if you fear Him, you will do it)men of truth, hating covetousness (the point made here was that our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy. The speaker proudly pointed out his wife after 30 years of teaching makes $13,000 / year. This proves our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy); and place such over them to be rulers...etc.

Then the main point that he made was this: He stated unequivocally that the command to educate was never given to Dad. It was given to the church. He said education is the responsibility, the mandate of the church. In Acts 7:38 ("church in the wilderness") it is proven that the church is to have the responsibility of education. Because, it is proved that the purpose of Moses as the judge of Israel and the only one who was close to God (similar to our role, Pastor) was to educate Israel on all matters of ordinances, laws, etc...and the gathering in the wilderness was actually a church...therefore education is the mandate of the church.

Thoughts?

It was
Click to expand...

Deut. 6 clearly mandates education is the dad's job.
When in doubt, the Bible always has the answer.
 
Sounds some of the riduculous pablum from my kool-aid drinking HAC-grad former pastor. :P
 
brainisengaged said:
Pastor was out of town this Weds, and we had a speaker who is an expert in the area of Christian Education share his (or rather, The Bible's) philosophy of Christian education.

It is hard to recall exact words, and anyone else who was there -- feel free to correct or add to what I am saying.

The main point was understanding why we believe in Christian education. The speaker stated that some years ago he was in a meeting with Christian educators. One pastor was a little discouraged, his school was financially suffering and it was weighing heavy...the pastor asked, "Why do we have Christian schools?" and it wasn't a rhetorical question, he was really truly wondering. Our speaker declined to answer the question, as he felt he was a 'junior man' at the meeting...but when it became apparent to him that no one knew the answer, he did speak up and give basically the points he was to give us tonight. And he silenced the room. (his words)

The text is Exodus 18:13-22. Moses is judging the people, Jethro asks "What are you doing?" Not questioning the fact he was judging the people, but rather questioning his methodology.

The application is that this text is the Biblical mandate for setting up Christian schools. Just as the job of Moses was to be close to God and make the people know the truth of God (all of this is paraphrased from what the speaker said), the job of the teacher is to make the students know the truth. To teach them our philosophy, our way of life, our faith, and culture. (v. 20..."thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.")

Then, the application is that this text shows how schools are a chain-of-command type situation. ("provide out of all the people able men (i.e. teachers), such as fear God, (fear is the starting point of Christian obedience. When you fear God, you realize He can do anything He wants to you in order to get you to do what you are supposed to do, so if you fear Him, you will do it)men of truth, hating covetousness (the point made here was that our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy. The speaker proudly pointed out his wife after 30 years of teaching makes $13,000 / year. This proves our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy); and place such over them to be rulers...etc.

Then the main point that he made was this: He stated unequivocally that the command to educate was never given to Dad. It was given to the church. He said education is the responsibility, the mandate of the church. In Acts 7:38 ("church in the wilderness") it is proven that the church is to have the responsibility of education. Because, it is proved that the purpose of Moses as the judge of Israel and the only one who was close to God (similar to our role, Pastor) was to educate Israel on all matters of ordinances, laws, etc...and the gathering in the wilderness was actually a church...therefore education is the mandate of the church.

Thoughts?

It was
Click to expand...

He was doing fairly well until that last paragraph. Not only is it ecclesiastically confused (the 'church in the wilderness' is most definitely not the Church; if you confuse those two you open up a theological Pandora's box) but it violates Ephesians 6. It is the father who has the God-given responsibility to 'bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.'

...he probably silenced the room b/c the other men in it were appalled.
 
Actually,  his connection of fear of God and obedience was pretty horrible.
 
And his justification of poverty wages for teachers in "Christian" schools.
 
If a church seeks to offer schooling as a ministry of the church, than it should be exactly that....ministry....there should be no more charge than there is for any other ministry.

See how that works out...
 
Ok, thanks for the interesting comments on this thread so far.

I guess the next question for me, if I can explain myself properly, is this: Is it typical for each of you in your respective churches to consistently hear things that don't seem quite right?

My only church experiences are here at FBC Hammond for a quarter century, and two years spent at a tiny (I know, there are no tiny churches...) congregation of about 20; the IFB church I attended upon receiving Christ. I came to Christ as an adult and grew up unchurched.

SO, in the 'great awakening' I've experienced in the wake of the JS debacle, I am finding it decidedly difficult to trust. Not only am I reluctant to trust that things are they seem, but I am also reluctant to trust that people are speaking the truth in Christ.

Is that the way it is for everyone always? And I've just 'woken up' to it? And if you can't really trust anything anyone says from the pulpit until you search it out for yourself, then what exactly is the purpose of attending church?

I realize some will point out: We are to rightly divide the word of truth, search out the Scriptures. Does that mean you can never hear a word anyone says and just accept it?

It really knocks me back a step or several steps when I show up and hear something like I heard Wednesday night.
 
[quote author=brainisengaged]And if you can't really trust anything anyone says from the pulpit until you search it out for yourself, then what exactly is the purpose of attending church? [/quote]

Because "church" is not something you attend. It's a community you belong to. I often remind our folks to focus more on the people in our community of faith and less on the preaching.
 
brainisengaged said:
Ok, thanks for the interesting comments on this thread so far.

I guess the next question for me, if I can explain myself properly, is this: Is it typical for each of you in your respective churches to consistently hear things that don't seem quite right?
Click to expand...
Nope.
 
I was very blessed to have friends who helped me educate my children.  That is what the teachers and principals of Hammond Baptist were to me.  It has always been my job to make sure they were educated in the manner I thought was best.  We taught them much about real life, about doctrine and about God at home and used the school to teach them the 3 R's in an institutional method and to provide a social outlet.  Many many, many times we corrected the teaching of the teacher.  Especially doctrine and biblical family philosophy.  We were not antagonistic at all toward the teacher but we taught our children how to get along with people who had a differing opinion without being disagreeable and how to maximize their relationships to get to their goal, a grade, a credit, a good reputation and a good relationship.  More than once, more than twice I visited to correct something at school.  I made my case and in every situation without question I had a person who made a correction or helped the situation to get better.  Now I know not everyone has had that experience.  I had a story to tell that gave me an advantage and I knew the system inside and out.  They knew that when I said I wanted something changed or I would decide to educate my children at home they knew I wasn't bluffing.  In fact, no fault of the school, we had a child who was struggling because of a developmental issue we were working on.  He was floundering and there was nothing the school could do to help.  We pulled him for a semester and home educated that semester to catch up and get some wins under his belt.  He thrived and the school was phenomenal in working with us to get him back into his place upon his return.

As a parent you are not allowed to drop your child off at school nor church and think he is safe, nor he will be educated and your work is done.  Paying tuition does not buy you the right not to stay in that child's life, it does not win and keep their heart.  You can save yourself a world of hurt if you just take time to remember and then apply your memory to your child's life, and fight to keep them talking to you.  They will pull away as they find their independence and you have to work at keeping that heart.  You keep a child's heart and you can teach them all their life.  You lose that heart and they will reject everything you have to say.  It is your duty to educate your child. 

I was not at church Wed night but from what has been reported here, On the issue of education, that man was wrong.
 
brainisengaged said:
Pastor was out of town this Weds, and we had a speaker who is an expert in the area of Christian Education share his (or rather, The Bible's) philosophy of Christian education.

It is hard to recall exact words, and anyone else who was there -- feel free to correct or add to what I am saying.

The main point was understanding why we believe in Christian education. The speaker stated that some years ago he was in a meeting with Christian educators. One pastor was a little discouraged, his school was financially suffering and it was weighing heavy...the pastor asked, "Why do we have Christian schools?" and it wasn't a rhetorical question, he was really truly wondering. Our speaker declined to answer the question, as he felt he was a 'junior man' at the meeting...but when it became apparent to him that no one knew the answer, he did speak up and give basically the points he was to give us tonight. And he silenced the room. (his words)

The text is Exodus 18:13-22. Moses is judging the people, Jethro asks "What are you doing?" Not questioning the fact he was judging the people, but rather questioning his methodology.

The application is that this text is the Biblical mandate for setting up Christian schools. Just as the job of Moses was to be close to God and make the people know the truth of God (all of this is paraphrased from what the speaker said), the job of the teacher is to make the students know the truth. To teach them our philosophy, our way of life, our faith, and culture. (v. 20..."thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.")

Then, the application is that this text shows how schools are a chain-of-command type situation. ("provide out of all the people able men (i.e. teachers), such as fear God, (fear is the starting point of Christian obedience. When you fear God, you realize He can do anything He wants to you in order to get you to do what you are supposed to do, so if you fear Him, you will do it)men of truth, hating covetousness (the point made here was that our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy. The speaker proudly pointed out his wife after 30 years of teaching makes $13,000 / year. This proves our teachers are NOT covetous or greedy); and place such over them to be rulers...etc.

Then the main point that he made was this: He stated unequivocally that the command to educate was never given to Dad. It was given to the church. He said education is the responsibility, the mandate of the church. In Acts 7:38 ("church in the wilderness") it is proven that the church is to have the responsibility of education. Because, it is proved that the purpose of Moses as the judge of Israel and the only one who was close to God (similar to our role, Pastor) was to educate Israel on all matters of ordinances, laws, etc...and the gathering in the wilderness was actually a church...therefore education is the mandate of the church.

Thoughts?

It was
Click to expand...

We talked to young lady this year who has been almost a life time fbch member. Husband was a deacon and maybe still is with two children in  fbch. One of her kids had been floundering for about 2 years. Failing classes etc. and everyone she turned to for help just said that she needed to hire a tutor, study more, help him more, etc. She was beside herself for two years because almost nobody knew about it and she didn't know what to do.

She took her son to a Crown Point public school for an evaluation. They did a bunch of tests and determined that his reading comprehension was about 4 years behind what it should be. They came up with a plan and her kids are now in public school. Her biggest relief was because she said after years of talking to his teachers I finally have some kind of answer!

Now, if the education of children was a mandate that was given to the church; Were they actually failing in their mandate? What do you do then?
 
BALAAM said:
Her biggest relief was because she said after years of talking to his teachers I finally have some kind of answer!
Click to expand...

With respect for her frustration and desire to be a good parent she did not find the answer. She only found the problem.
 
Tom Brennan said:
BALAAM said:
Her biggest relief was because she said after years of talking to his teachers I finally have some kind of answer!
Click to expand...

With respect for her frustration and desire to be a good parent she did not find the answer. She only found the problem.
Click to expand...

You said a whole lot right there, Tommy boy!
 
I mean no disrespect to anyone that went to HAC. 

But, if everyone will be honest with themselves, HAC classes are nothing more than an adult Sunday School class.  And many are sending their children to be taught by teachers that "earned" their teaching degree from HAC. 
 
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