Bizarre Numbers

[Binaca Chugger]

Vineyard's Gangsters?  So, that was before I was cognizant of the events happening around me.  What are you talking about?

 

[qwerty]

Vineyard's Gangsters?  So, that was before I was cognizant of the events happening around me.  What are you talking about?

Really the only gangsters that ever were involved were in the minds of the feeble.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Vineyard's Gangsters?  So, that was before I was cognizant of the events happening around me.  What are you talking about?

Really the only gangsters that ever were involved were in the minds of the feeble.

Now, I do remember that!  In fact, a good friend of mine installed all the machine guns behind the black foam panels on the front wall of the auditorium!  8)

 

[Babar]

Exact numbers are unavailable, but who was captain of the world´s largest bus route?

Jim Craw was a student at Hammond baptist High School when he took a route in a middle class area and began running in the two hundreds. He was later expelled from HAC (and deserved it) and is currently pastoring a small church on a gigantic campus in California.

A HAC student named Daniel started a route in north Chicago and quickly grew into the high 100's. Jim Vineyard assigned more workers to his route, gave him more buses, and announced that he was captain of the world´s largest bus route. Daniel was an active leader in Vineyard´s Gangsters, a violent gang that operatied with the approval and protection of the administration. After decades of successfuly pastoring small churches, he was divorced and remarried and was selling insurance.

Dan Taylor was the #2 man on the world´s largest bus route. He brought in over 200 kids on a regular basis, and actually brought in more kids than the captain. After a long stint as an Atheist, he has quietly returned to some belief in God. He is a very kind-hearted man who cares for animals and people.

Cliff Falen was the #3 man on the world´s largest bus route, averaging in the high 100's. One of the kindest, friendliest people I've ever met, he took no part in the gang violence. Today he bitterly hates Jim Vineyard and HAC, but he has returned from his Atheism.

I have told my friends Taylor and Cliff that the God of Jim Vineyard is a fictional character. If I believed that God is pleased with your sins as long as you have a big bus route, I would turn Atheist too.

If Dan Taylor is the person on the old FFF I talked to I am glad he is approaching God with an open heart. The person I talked to was an atheist and big animal lover. I prayed for him at the time that God would open his eyes.

As most animal lovers know, it is wrong for the animal or human to bite the hand that feeds him.

While I believe God hears our prayers, I also believe He will not force His will on someone.  I also believe what I heard a judge say.  "It's not what a person says, it is what they do."

If Mr. Taylor has quietly become a believer, he might want to make amends for the hands he has bitten.

 

[PappaBear]

Now, I don't know the difference between easy believism and hard believism.
I do know that the Bible says that "Whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I appreciate you and your stand.  You are one of those on this board I really enjoy reading after!

It is interesting to me the use of the terms "believism," whether it be easy or hard, and then the reference to Romans 10:13.  I would encourage people to read the passage, not just the verse.  If the subject is "believing" then verse 14 provides a better foundation for salvation.  My interpretation is that Romans 10:13-17 provides the scriptural "Order of Salvation" in reverse.  "Calling" (Prayer) is a result of salvation ("believed" v.14 or "faith" v.17), not something that results in salvation.  Calling comes from Believing  (or "Faith" in v.17) which comes from Hearing, which comes from the Preaching of the Word of God by a Preacher, who is Sent by a divine calling or heavenly Commission in sending him. 
[quote author=16KJV11]But I agree that many churches aren't built on converts, but on mature Christians moving to that church from another area or another church.
That I have seen with my own two eyes.
And, to be honest, that is a good thing b/c new and immature believers need to see mature, seasoned believers living out their faith.
[/quote]It is agreed that many churches are that way, but it is what weakens us, not a source of strength.  My ordaining Church is one that grew mostly through new converts.  This began when the Church was very small and it was a slow process.  The pastor has been there now over 35 years, and the Church is going strong, consistently growing exponentially.  It's phenomenal growth took time, but there were few "splits" along the way that are traditional among Baptist Churches because most of its core crowd through the years could track their salvation testimony to the ministry of that Church.  What few reductions in membership I know of in its history were all from those who did come from other Church backgrounds in their testimony, and finding something disagreeable to them, moved on to other churches.  That was the reason my Pastor taught me the major lesson that imports from other churches were normally trouble.  It sows discord and division.  As Paul said,

1Cor 4:15  For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

There is a lot more loyalty given from those who have experienced transformation through your ministry than those who only perceive their membership and labor in a local church as a mechanical obedience to Christian policy.

 

[Vince Massi]

"If Mr. Taylor has quietly become a believer, he might want to make amends for the hands he has bitten."

You don't realize what the man has gone through. And Yes, the kindness of various posters on the old FFF was a factor in helping him. As for biting the hand that feeds you, the illustration does not apply: he wasn't fed; he was misled.

 

[Babar]

Please tell us, Mr. Massi.  What has [deleted personal info] Route 70 gone through?  Maybe he'll write an e-book and charge $1.99 per chapter.  I'm curious enough to read about his plight.

Babar--- you are now banned. You are stalking Route 70 and posting personal information. You have been warned before. If you attempt to open another account and post personal info again, legal action can be taken.

 

[Vince Massi]

There's another bizarre number that I only realized this year. I'm in contact with some HAC grads, some of whom are pastoring. Most of them are the sons of preachers. In other words, they received help that most of us did not receive. I'm glad they received that help, but if your father was not a pastor, your odds of pastoring successfully decline.

But they don't tell the students that.

 

[prophet]

Vineyard's Gangsters?  So, that was before I was cognizant of the events happening around me.  What are you talking about?

Really the only gangsters that ever were involved were in the minds of the feeble.

Did you say "Minds of the Pre eble?"  Space was intentional, interrupting searches.

Anishinabe

 

[kaba]

I'm in contact with numerous Pastor, that their fathers are laymen....and are doing just fine!

 

[Vince Massi]

I'm in contact with numerous Pastor, that their fathers are laymen....and are doing just fine!

Same here, Kaba. But from HAC, the percentage of successful pastors whose fathers were pastors is pretty high.

 

[PappaBear]

Same here, Kaba. But from HAC, the percentage of successful pastors whose fathers were pastors is pretty high.

Some of that may be from the HAC policy of giving preferential treatment to those with "political connections."  It appeared to me in my time there that if you had the right last name or patron, your "success" as a student was assured.

While I was there, Bro. Hyles once preached a message that surprised me for its honesty.  He repeatedly shouted, "Influence ... is everything!"  At that time and at that place, there could not have been truer words spoken.

 

[rsc2a]

I'm in contact with numerous Pastor, that their fathers are laymen....and are doing just fine!

Same here, Kaba. But from HAC, the percentage of successful pastors whose fathers were pastors is pretty high.

I guess that depends on how one defines "success".

 

[Vince Massi]

I have already mentioned that the numbers for the world's largest bus route were rigged. Faithful bus captains had their routes added to the largest route, and the captain of the largest route then received credit for kids that he had not brought in. But one day, they were bragging about a bus captain's numbers, and told us how many students he was leading. Doing some math, I realized that he was bringing in less per worker than I was.

 

[BALAAM]

I have already mentioned that the numbers for the world's largest bus route were rigged. Faithful bus captains had their routes added to the largest route, and the captain of the largest route then received credit for kids that he had not brought in. But one day, they were bragging about a bus captain's numbers, and told us how many students he was leading. Doing some math, I realized that he was bringing in less per worker than I was.

hackadoodlism at its finest!

 

[Vince Massi]

"Don't be a morning glory!" Bill Rice shouted over and over in chapel in one of the best sermons I've ever heard. A morning glory is a horse that starts well but quits on you. He was cowpoking for a rancher who told him to pick out a horse to ride, but DO NOT choose Morning Glory, a fine-looking horse that would quit on you.

Gong to the corral, Bill realized that Morning Glory was by far the sharpest-looking horse of the bunch, and Morning Glory enthusiastically neighed and pranced so Bill would choose him.

After a couple of hours, Morning Glory had to be kicked and dragged along, and the angry drive leader chewed Bill out and sent him to the back to eat dust and chase strays.

Students with big numbers at HAC were praised to High Heaven, but many of them later quit. Over time, you'll have bigger numbers than them if you stay at it. Don't be a morning glory!

 

[16KJV11]

I'm in contact with numerous Pastor, that their fathers are laymen....and are doing just fine!

Same here, Kaba. But from HAC, the percentage of successful pastors whose fathers were pastors is pretty high.

My real dad is an atheistic Jew and I haven't seen him since 1976.
My step dad was Austrian/Irishman who didn't have time for God until he got cancer.
Neither pastored, neither cared much for God.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

"Don't be a morning glory!" Bill Rice shouted over and over in chapel in one of the best sermons I've ever heard. A morning glory is a horse that starts well but quits on you. He was cowpoking for a rancher who told him to pick out a horse to ride, but DO NOT choose Morning Glory, a fine-looking horse that would quit on you.

Gong to the corral, Bill realized that Morning Glory was by far the sharpest-looking horse of the bunch, and Morning Glory enthusiastically neighed and pranced so Bill would choose him.

After a couple of hours, Morning Glory had to be kicked and dragged along, and the angry drive leader chewed Bill out and sent him to the back to eat dust and chase strays.

Students with big numbers at HAC were praised to High Heaven, but many of them later quit. Over time, you'll have bigger numbers than them if you stay at it. Don't be a morning glory!

I thought Morning Glorys were flowers that only open their bloom in the morning.

Bro. Hyles called these people roman candles - bright and flashy for but a moment.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

"Don't be a morning glory!" Bill Rice shouted over and over in chapel in one of the best sermons I've ever heard. A morning glory is a horse that starts well but quits on you. He was cowpoking for a rancher who told him to pick out a horse to ride, but DO NOT choose Morning Glory, a fine-looking horse that would quit on you.

Gong to the corral, Bill realized that Morning Glory was by far the sharpest-looking horse of the bunch, and Morning Glory enthusiastically neighed and pranced so Bill would choose him.

After a couple of hours, Morning Glory had to be kicked and dragged along, and the angry drive leader chewed Bill out and sent him to the back to eat dust and chase strays.

Students with big numbers at HAC were praised to High Heaven, but many of them later quit. Over time, you'll have bigger numbers than them if you stay at it. Don't be a morning glory!

That sounds more like an Inspirational speech than a sermon...

 

[Vince Massi]

I can't remember if it was the first or second FFF, but a character named Jaguar wrote in. Clearly unsaved, he believed that certain passages of Scripture taught Calvinism, while certain other passages refuted it. He would compare the passages, ignoring challenges from other posters.

The numbers showed that over 200 people a day were reading his posts. Suddenly, the numbers showed that zero people were reading his posts. From over 200 to 0 in one day. Isn't that incredible?

A few days ago, I visited the second FFF (the one that I Am Am An Angel ruined). It said that there was one member and 98 guests, and all of them were reading spam. Aren't those numbers amazing?

That or somebody knows how to rig the numbers.