Bizarre Numbers

[Binaca Chugger]

Been there done that have the t-shirt.  Starvation days are over but the resulting problems are not.

But God is taking care of us.

Ditto

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The real kicker is when the "pastor" is living in luxury and preaching against welfare while he pays his staff so low they are told to get on welfare to make up the rest.  Oh - and you are not allowed to get a second job, or summer job, because that would take away from your responsibility to properly prepare and be there for the parents and fix up the buildings during summer.  All while the "pastor" is out of town a minimum of three days each week.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I could say a lot, and probably will, but it all boils down to pastors wanting a staff to brag about, so they hire school teachers and lump all the other responsibilities on. These guys are not concerned about a Christian education for the kids. If they were, they would do ACE (I do have reservations there too) or Pensacola's video school. No they want a staff for pennies on the dollar.

 

[JustABigKid]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

A young couple in our church taught at one of the local Christian schools...they barely made 30k together. The problem was that their degrees were from an IFB school and they couldn't get other teaching jobs.

That's why, IMO, the IFB colleges are, in many ways, a detriment to those they serve. But it isn't realized until 'after the fact'.....

I found this out the hard way. I am actually going back to school in order to get a better job to be able to actually take care of my family. No one in the real world cares if you got a diploma from some unaccredited college for Pastoring or Theology or Teaching. I have had to at every job start at the very job and work extra hard to move to the top where I could actually take care of the family.

 

[Vince Massi]

At the first church I attended after accepting Christ, there was a deacon (and his wife) who had graduated from Bible college. 43 years later, I have never met another deacon who had graduated from a Bible college. They had both graduated from Prairie Bible Institute. have also met one woman who graduated from Moody Bible Institute. Except for the pastors, almost no one in a churchl has graduated from Bible college.

Every year, Bible colleges church out tens of thousands of graduates who have no ministry available for them. What happens to them? One Southern Baptist seminary reported that six years after graduating, less than half their graduates had any ministry at all, including being a Sunday School teacher. Most Bible college graduates will not be able to obtain a full-time ministry, so what happens to them? They usually don´t even attend church.

The cold truth is: within a few years of graduating, most Bible college graduates do not even attend church. Many of our best young people are being ruined, not improved, by Bible college.

 

[CONSPIRATOR]

Looks like most who have posted here have  taken similar routes.   

I find it interesting that we grew through the experiences, but I also think it was in spite of the circumstances, not because of.  How many more teachers would we still have if they had been taken care of as they pastors (sometimes) demand they be taken care of?

 

[kaba]

We have numerous people that have graduated from Bible Colleges that attend our church. HAC grads,BJU grads, Crown grads, CCC and , PCC to mention a few. All seven of our Deacons are very wise business men, they do t need to be Bible college grafuates. Someone seems to make several statements with a broad brush!

 

[Vince Massi]

Kaba, I'm glad to hear that several Bible college grads are attending your church. One of my HAC teachers pastored a church in Illinois, and he had several BJU graduates attending his church. However, in 43 years of attending Christian churches, I have only met three Bible college grads (who were not in some full-time ministry) who attended church.

 

[IFB X-Files]

However, in 43 years of attending Christian churches, I have only met three Bible college grads (who were not in some full-time ministry) who attended church.

Well, as they say, the woods is full of them out here.  In 30 seconds at least 10 came to mind.  Thankful they are still faithful.

 

[Bravo]

And in the past two administrations at my church, it was stated from the pulpit in no uncertain terms that a man being considered for a staff / teaching position must never inquire about the salary ahead of time. If you asked, you would no longer be under consideration because a real Christian does what he is called to do and thinks not upon the compensation. To ask was considered an impertinent lack of faith.

I spoke to a staff member who now works for another college and he brought this subject up. He stated that with Bro Hyles you didn't have to ask, he told you up front. Any job in the world will tell you up front what your starting pay is? To me it is VERY dishonest to try to hire someone but not tell them what salary.

 

[Babar]

I consider myself fortunate because I taught at a Christian school that was very stable.  Many teachers stayed for several years.  Much of it has to do with the school administration and the pastor.  The school is still in existence and has a decent reputation.

Spending money, however, on an unaccredited college limits most of the graduates; however, I was young and knew SO much more than the adults advising me not to go!  Amazing the older I get, the smarter my parents and grandparents seem.

 

[4everfsu]

As a student of a Christian school  that had opened only years before I attended, I seen with my own eyes where all the public school rejects and problems were gladly accepted by my Christian school. Twenty years later when I taught full time at a Christian school which was fairly new, PE teacher, again the same pattern, public school rejects and problem students were welcomed with open arms.
I had no problem with the students, some of my happiest times of my life was being a mentor, coach to these kids. My problem was with parents who thought their kids could do no harm.

As far as pay, I was paid well, I think some where between $225 to $250 per week. This was in the late 70s, early 80s. And it was not an IFBx church, United Methodist.

I don't miss teaching or the fact of oversized classes. My one 7th grade class was over 70 students and I taught both boys and girls classes, from 1st grade to 12th grade.

But I do miss the friendship of my students and fellow teachers who I remain in contact today.

 

[Vince Massi]

Folks, I´m surprised at how many Former Christian school teachers are on this forum. I have looked for former teachers on other forums and only found one. Assuming that you former teachers on this thread are still attending church, as well as being HAC grads, those are pretty high numbers.

Moving on:

At the Assemblies of God college my pastor attended, they told the students at the beginning that only 2% of them would ever pastor a church. Granted, that less than half the students were studying to be pastors, but at least they told them. Some time ago, HAC published a list of all known HAC grads who were pastoring. Taking what numbers I could, and extrapolating wildly (guessing intelligently?) the lowest number I came up with was that 3% of all people who ever graduated from HAC are currently pastoring. Throw in the ones who pastored for a while, and the numbers get even better.

The cold truth is, HAC grads are FAR higher than most other college grads in continuing to serve God after they graduate.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Vince Massi]The cold truth is, HAC grads are FAR higher than most other college grads in continuing to serve God after they graduate.[/quote]

The only way to serve God is if people call you "pastor"?  ???

 

[patriotic]

I taught Christian school "under a 1 year contract" while waiting for my fiancé-now husband to graduate from HAC.  I was paid sufficiently.  I was told up front what I would be paid. 

My husband helped start one Christian school.  He initially was paid part-time, and he worked another part-time job.  (Church/school paid $100/week 25 years ago.) He then was principal at another school, and at both "jobs", the pastors told him up-front what they could and would pay before ever asking him to take the position. 

We were out of Christian education for just a few years, but not out of the ministry.  I was out because we believed it best that I be home with our children while they were young.  My husband was pastoring a rural church that had no Christian school.

Today, we both teach part-time and he is in "full-time service". 
,
Our church staff and membership has HAC, LU, PCC, TTU, PBC, PU, GSBC, UK, BJU as well as some other local colleges and universities represented

To some up working for the Lord (I've been in the "ministry" since I was 3 months old.), all I can say is Psalm 37:25.  I may have lived below poverty level, but I have never been poor.

***I would also like to point out, that I do work very PT in a ladies' clothing shop.  (I do that for fun, the discount, and because all my children are grown now and I have a LOT of extra time on my hands.)

A large portion of our clientele are public school teachers.  MOST of them remain teaching ONLY BECAUSE of the retirement program.  The majority of them would quit teaching today if it were up to them according to their salary.  This is true also of two of my family members who teach in public schools. 

 

[cpizzle]

I took a different approach after graduating HAC in 2002.

I came back to my hometown, got married, and started building myself a career.  (I worked a FT job and worked unpaid at my church on my own terms.)  I led music, choir, taught our adult Sunday School, ran a bus route, supervised VBS, ect...  I was much happier letting "the world" provide my paycheck and cheerfully gave my time to our church and the lord's work. 

Now I pastor a small church but growing church in Middle Tennessee.  I am bi-vocational and my wife is an LPN.  We are doing great financially and we love serving the Lord.  I get to preach 3 times a week, love my people with all my heart, and I don't have to battle bitterness with former pastors or bible teachers. 

 

[kaba]

At our first ministry job I taught in the Christian School, my husband taught and was the Youth Pastor. We knew upfront what our salary would be. At the other two churches he Pastored we knew upfront what the salary would be. We had children by then, and we had to know whether it would work financially for us. He did have to work a secular job, and we weren't rich-but asking what the pay was before accepting the position was not frowned upon.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

My first teaching job, Bro. Hyles told me where we should go.  When I asked the pastor about pay, he simply told me that we would have our needs met and we did.  Our second teaching job, we were simply told, yes, you will be paid a livable wage.  After 6 mo there, we got no salary.  My third position, we were told where we would live and given sub-standard pay.  The fourth place we went, when I asked about payment, I was told that if we wanted to serve God there, we would just come and trust God to provide because we should serve God, not mammon.  I was finally given an amount after I committed to move.  I realized it was going to be hand to mouth, but off to serve the Lord we went.  When I complained that I needed more money, I was told to trust God more.  When I asked for more, I was told to get on welfare.  I was then told to increase the size of the church if I wanted more money, so I started working less on teaching and more on visitation.  After the 50th adult joined the church through my outreach, I was told to just keep relying on God if I needed more money.  All the while, the "pastor," of course, lived in gluttonous luxury.

Yes, I subjected myself to this mentality.  I finally figured out that serving God in full time ministry to the detriment of your own family is a fatally flawed pursuit.  Different mindset now!

 

[RAIDER]

My first teaching job, Bro. Hyles told me where we should go.  When I asked the pastor about pay, he simply told me that we would have our needs met and we did.  Our second teaching job, we were simply told, yes, you will be paid a livable wage.  After 6 mo there, we got no salary.  My third position, we were told where we would live and given sub-standard pay.  The fourth place we went, when I asked about payment, I was told that if we wanted to serve God there, we would just come and trust God to provide because we should serve God, not mammon.  I was finally given an amount after I committed to move.  I realized it was going to be hand to mouth, but off to serve the Lord we went.  When I complained that I needed more money, I was told to trust God more.  When I asked for more, I was told to get on welfare.  I was then told to increase the size of the church if I wanted more money, so I started working less on teaching and more on visitation.  After the 50th adult joined the church through my outreach, I was told to just keep relying on God if I needed more money.  All the while, the "pastor," of course, lived in gluttonous luxury.

Yes, I subjected myself to this mentality.  I finally figured out that serving God in full time ministry to the detriment of your own family is a fatally flawed pursuit.  Different mindset now!

You have just described the post-graduate trail of a true Hacker!  Just kidding. 

 

[subllibrm]

I hope you weren't all english teachers. 









;D