Are the numerous mass shootings an evidence of America's moral decline?

[The Rogue Tomato]

The fact that the composition of this site thinks that tattoos, boozing, cigarettes, dope-smoking, and a host other things that used to be condemned taboo at best by the evangelical Christian community are now acceptable serves the same purpose. 

You have a very distorted view of history.

 

[ALAYMAN]

The fact that the composition of this site thinks that tattoos, boozing, cigarettes, dope-smoking, and a host other things that used to be condemned taboo at best by the evangelical Christian community are now acceptable serves the same purpose. 

You have a very distorted view of history.

Are you suggesting that the main of evangelicals have always promoted or tolerated those things as being amoral or of no moral consequence?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Things conservatives want to legislate
private bedroom activities
personal drug use
individual medical decisions
control of education
"conserving" a two-party system
snooping and control of our communications (Hi NSA!)
best practices for torture
family choices
religious practices
transfers of wealth from our citizens to pet States

Yup....they are just as guilty as wanting to control the lives of citizens as the other side. They just choose different things to control.

Well, a lot of conservatives aren't conservative.   And many certainly aren't libertarian.  They're supposed to stand for limited government and liberty.  They just don't.  That's why I will have nothing to do with either the Democrat or Republican party. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=The Rogue Tomato]Well, a lot of conservatives aren't conservative.   And many certainly aren't libertarian.  They're supposed to stand for limited government and liberty.  They just don't.  That's why I will have nothing to do with either the Democrat or Republican party.  [/quote]

Pretty much. The big issue isn't Liberal vs Conservative. It's liberty vs tyranny.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The fact that the composition of this site thinks that tattoos, boozing, cigarettes, dope-smoking, and a host other things that used to be condemned taboo at best by the evangelical Christian community are now acceptable serves the same purpose. 

You have a very distorted view of history.

Are you suggesting that the main of evangelicals have always promoted or tolerated those things as being amoral or of no moral consequence?

I'm suggesting you seem to be unaware of times when smoking and drinking (not getting drunk -- DRINKING) was practically ubiquitous, even among Christians.  Lots of people got tattoos, too, especially if they were in the military. 

EDIT:  Today's tattoos are often much prettier, IMO.  Some are horrible, of course. 

 

[JrChurch]

You have a very distorted view of history.

He has a realistic view of history.  I spend every day with people who were born in the 1920's.  They frequently relate their clear memories of a safer, moral society.  Just don't ask 'em what they had this morning for breakfast.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You have a very distorted view of history.

He has a realistic view of history.  I spend every day with people who were born in the 1920's.  They frequently relate their clear memories of a safer, moral society.  Just don't ask 'em what they had this morning for breakfast.

I was responding to his specific mention of things like smoking, drinking and tattoos, not the general morality of society. 

 

[rsc2a]

The fact that the composition of this site thinks that tattoos, boozing, cigarettes, dope-smoking, and a host other things that used to be condemned taboo at best by the evangelical Christian community are now acceptable serves the same purpose. 

You have a very distorted view of history.

Are you suggesting that the main of evangelicals have always promoted or tolerated those things as being amoral or of no moral consequence?

I'm suggesting you seem to be unaware of times when smoking and drinking (not getting drunk -- DRINKING) was practically ubiquitous, even among Christians.  Lots of people got tattoos, too, especially if they were in the military. 

EDIT:  Today's tattoos are often much prettier, IMO.  Some are horrible, of course.

There used to be a time when it was acceptable to beat the skin off your kid, rape your wife, and tell black folks to stay out of your movie theatre too. (Along with a host of other things.)  And these activities were advocated for loudly by those in the church. Some seem to forget that part of it.

 

[ThatGirl]

You have a very distorted view of history.

He has a realistic view of history.  I spend every day with people who were born in the 1920's.  They frequently relate their clear memories of a safer, moral society.  Just don't ask 'em what they had this morning for breakfast.

Well...people often view their past through rose colored glasses.  Or exaggerated..."I walked to school, uphill, both ways and there were 5 kids in our family and only one pair of shoes and it never snowed on my day to have the shoes...."   

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The fact that the composition of this site thinks that tattoos, boozing, cigarettes, dope-smoking, and a host other things that used to be condemned taboo at best by the evangelical Christian community are now acceptable serves the same purpose. 

You have a very distorted view of history.

Are you suggesting that the main of evangelicals have always promoted or tolerated those things as being amoral or of no moral consequence?

I'm suggesting you seem to be unaware of times when smoking and drinking (not getting drunk -- DRINKING) was practically ubiquitous, even among Christians.  Lots of people got tattoos, too, especially if they were in the military. 

EDIT:  Today's tattoos are often much prettier, IMO.  Some are horrible, of course.

There used to be a time when it was acceptable to beat the skin off your kid, rape your wife, and tell black folks to stay out of your movie theatre too. (Along with a host of other things.)  And these activities were advocated for loudly by those in the church. Some seem to forget that part of it.

Good points.  The good old days weren't always very good.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=The Rogue Tomato]Good points.  The good old days weren't always very good. [/quote]

Oh, they were great if you were a white, "Christian", adult male. Pretty much any other demographic and not so much.

Ahhh....the "good ole days".

 

[ThatGirl]

Good points.  The good old days weren't always very good.

True, and on the subject of morality, I don't want to encourage anyone to study something if it might be to much for them but if you've ever researched the history of pornography then you know there truly is nothing new under the sun. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I'm suggesting you seem to be unaware of times when smoking and drinking (not getting drunk -- DRINKING) was practically ubiquitous, even among Christians.  Lots of people got tattoos, too, especially if they were in the military. 

EDIT:  Today's tattoos are often much prettier, IMO.  Some are horrible, of course.

Why'd ya leave dope-smoking off?  The simple answer is that doing so helps you marginalize me.  Just be honest about the way you frame your argument.  It is very transparent, and borders on sophistry.  Furthermore, the "boozing" statement regards our longstanding disagreement about the appropriateness of going to questionable locales (bars) to socialize.  It is a modern advent for Christians to not consider such activities questionable at best.  And tattoos?  Please.  Yeah, I said what I meant, and call bullcrap on your version of Christian history.

 

[ALAYMAN]

You have a very distorted view of history.

He has a realistic view of history.  I spend every day with people who were born in the 1920's.  They frequently relate their clear memories of a safer, moral society.  Just don't ask 'em what they had this morning for breakfast.

Well...people often view their past through rose colored glasses.  Or exaggerated..."I walked to school, uphill, both ways and there were 5 kids in our family and only one pair of shoes and it never snowed on my day to have the shoes...." 

Yeah, the proliferation of porn has always been accessible at elementary school levels via the touch of a smartphone button.  And Johnny has 2 Daddys ranked right alongside of the McGuffey Reader.

 

[JrChurch]

I was responding to his specific mention of things like smoking, drinking and tattoos, not the general morality of society.

Oh my word.  Those are the 3 things the "folks" were talking about today.  Seems to bother the residents when the health care aides smell like smoke and have tattoos (and piercings). 

 

[ALAYMAN]

9 years ago when i first joined the old fff one of my very first arguments on the forum was with alayman and it was on this very same topic of marijuana.....  only then it was not an issue of whether or not it should be legalized but whether or not certain demographic groups... (native americans)... were more predisposed to using it...... and whether or not that use had anything to do with their lack of success in job markets and in educational pursuits..... all the other forum members had to see was that i had researched medical marijuana in college to both assume... (mistakenly)... that i had tried it myself...... that i was a supporter of legalizing it.....  and also to decide i was a liberal since i was arguing against one of the more conservative members of the forum...... i;m not sure if the fact i am also half navajo and saw myself as defending the honor of other native americans played into that liberal label or not.....  but i know that once they found out i wore swimsuits to the beach... shorts everywhere else... (except for church)...  and never owned a pair of culottes that settled it......

but now...... according to quite a few people here.... the fact that i still don;t wear shorts to church and wear dresses when i attend instead means i am a fundamentalist xer..... and alayman and i find ourselves on the same side of issues much more often than not....... yet neither one of us has changed anything we believe...... it;s just that the median beliefs of the fff group as a whole have shifted so far to the liberal side that we both find ourselves on the conservative side of them now......... it;s really strange.... and something i never imagined would happen.....

I remember bits of this, but my memory truly has gotten MUCH worse as I've aged, so help me out here.  What specific boneheaded allegations was *I* making against native americans?

 

[ThatGirl]

Yeah, the proliferation of porn has always been accessible at elementary school levels via the touch of a smartphone button.  And Johnny has 2 Daddys ranked right alongside of the McGuffey Reader.

If that's going on at your school then you better rethink your educational strategy for Alayboy.    Isn't your wife a teacher there?  Y'all should be more involved.   

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Why'd ya leave dope-smoking off? 

The simpler answer is that I don't know the history of pot smoking.  And that's the true answer.

 

[ThatGirl]

I was responding to his specific mention of things like smoking, drinking and tattoos, not the general morality of society.

Oh my word.  Those are the 3 things the "folks" were talking about today.  Seems to bother the residents when the health care aides smell like smoke and have tattoos (and piercings).

It was their generation that glamourized smoking and made it popular. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Yeah, the proliferation of porn has always been accessible at elementary school levels via the touch of a smartphone button.  And Johnny has 2 Daddys ranked right alongside of the McGuffey Reader.

If that's going on at your school then you better rethink your educational strategy for Alayboy.    Isn't your wife a teacher there?  Y'all should be more involved. 

I'll take that as a humorous deflection, but a non-answer just the same.   If you don't think that kids are getting sex-ed and a host of other early schooling prior to the way things used to be then I really can't help you, but for somebody who touts "education" as the answer you seem to be laggin' a bit behind on key social/cultural indices.