Another IFB preacher shows his fangs with the sheep

[prophet]

[quote author=prophet]If you knew English, you'd realize that 'condemn' means 'sentence to death, and Hell afterwards'.  You don't 'absolutely condemn' anyone.  You don't 'absolutely' anything.  You are a coward. 

con

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=prophet]From the Latin: comdamnare-'To Damn'
Your modern dictionary stinks as bad as your modern 'version'.[/quote]

LOL!

You criticize what someone (who speaks modern English) says because because they don't use archaic definitions for modern English words?

(Amusingly, you do this at the same time that you make a case for modern translations.)

[quote author=prophet]I can show you where Jesus said to stone adulterers. In the Law of Moses.[/quote]

"You have heard it said... but I say unto you..."

If you'd like, I can provide plenty of these statements.

[quote author=prophet]Jesus didn't come as a legal authority, the first time.  He didnt come to Judge.  He came to save.[/quote]

I don't attempt to separate that which is inseparable.

[quote author=prophet]'Because they neglected mercy?' Did you understand the question?
:Why did the Pharisees think that this particular judgement call would provide them ample fodder to convict Jesus?

Anishinabe[/quote]

No...I understood your question.

 

[samspade]

Lest there be any confusion, I believe that men who commit a crime ought to suffer the consequences of their action. I believe men who commit immoral acts ought to suffer the consequences of their actions. If that means they spend the rest of their lives in prison, so be it.

What I cannot do is refuse the possibility that God can redeem them. I think where the confusion comes in is in what that looks like. Son of Sam is a great example of what I mean. A demonic serial killer, he was witnessed to by another prisoner and was saved. Is he still in prison? Absolutely. Does he agree that he should be? Yes, he does. He isn't trying to use his faith to avoid the consequences of his actions. He uses those consequences as a way to reach others behind prison walls for Christ.

I guess my use of condemnation is more in line with Prophet's definition. I can't say anyone is without hope of redemption. I can say they deserve any consequences they get. And, if they are truly repentant, they won't fight against that.

 

[Frag]

Breaking NEWS!!!  Standards took down the towers!!!!

Seems that one of the muslin extremist who took over one the planes on 9-11 had a sister whose great aunt played bridge with woman whose neighbor's boy's best friend's girl friend once attended a IFB missionary's church.  Apparently this missionary doesn't believe his wife and daughters should dress like hoochie-mammas.

STANDARDS CAUSE TERRORISM!!!!

 

[4everfsu]

Thanks for the laugh Frag early this morning. Standards, so women in ifbx churches who dress like ladies according to your teaching would never be involved in adultery?

Maybe terrorism being generated is because of evil in the heart of men who hate everything American a nation founded on Christian principles stands.

Again thanks for the laugh.

 

[Frag]

More Breaking News!!!  Standards Lead To Kennedy's Assassination!!!!

Grainy black and white video show a seven  year old child near the grassy knoll whose 2nd grade teacher's third cousin had his poodle neutered by a vet whose twin brother's mailman's sister works for a banker who apparently possesses a copy of Blue Denim and Lace. 

STANDARDS KILLED KENNEDY!!!

 

[ALAYMAN]

More Breaking News!!!  Standards Lead To Kennedy's Assassination!!!!

Grainy black and white video show a seven  year old child near the grassy knoll whose 2nd grade teacher's third cousin had his poodle neutered by a vet whose twin brother's mailman's sister works for a banker who apparently possesses a copy of Blue Denim and Lace. 

STANDARDS KILLED KENNEDY!!!

Keep stickin' your head in the sand bro.  Nobody has said that "standards" aren't an outcome of holy living, but rather it has been said that standards don't produce holy living, and they certainly aren't a hedge against a Christian falling into sin.  A life in Christ produces obedience to Biblical living, but living by a list of rules doesn't produce holiness, lest the Amish and Muslims have us all beat.

 

[ALAYMAN]

What I cannot do is refuse the possibility that God can redeem them.

While I agree that God can forgive any sin, as you pointed out, some actions come with consequences.  The OP was mainly pointing out that the consequences for some actions in some IFB churches (like listening to the wrong kind of music) may be handed out more readily to the guilty party than the punitive actions for adultery and such.  It may be a little of that Orwellian notion of "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

I think where the confusion comes in is in what that looks like.

Exactly.  What "it" looks like is that some of us are heavy-handed in the department against fighting "liberalism", whilst letting the fox get quickly back into our (or somebody else's) henhouse so soon after he's caught with feathers in his mouth.

 

[samspade]

What I cannot do is refuse the possibility that God can redeem them.

While I agree that God can forgive any sin, as you pointed out, some actions come with consequences.  The OP was mainly pointing out that the consequences for some actions in some IFB churches (like listening to the wrong kind of music) may be handed out more readily to the guilty party than the punitive actions for adultery and such.  It may be a little of that Orwellian notion of "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

I think where the confusion comes in is in what that looks like.

Exactly.  What "it" looks like is that some of us are heavy-handed in the department against fighting "liberalism", whilst letting the fox get quickly back into our (or somebody else's) henhouse so soon after he's caught with feathers in his mouth.

In complete agreement. I believe the biblical terminology is straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

 

[Frag]

Breaking News!!!!  Standards Created Theory of Evolution!!!

Long lost documents now reveal that Charles Darwin was directly affected by his Aunt Suzie's farm hand's inlaws who were known to take tea with Arnold Prudstrator, a mortician who did work on a man hanged for shooting his dad (a Baptist deacon) for refusing to let him dance the Polka.  Charlie D was so distraught on receiving the news, that he immediately sat down and penned "Origin of Species".

STANDARDS MAKING MONKEYS OUT OF ALL OF US!!!!

 

[Frag]

More Breaking News!!!  Standards Lead To Kennedy's Assassination!!!!

Grainy black and white video show a seven  year old child near the grassy knoll whose 2nd grade teacher's third cousin had his poodle neutered by a vet whose twin brother's mailman's sister works for a banker who apparently possesses a copy of Blue Denim and Lace. 

STANDARDS KILLED KENNEDY!!!

Keep stickin' your head in the sand bro.  Nobody has said that "standards" aren't an outcome of holy living, but rather it has been said that standards don't produce holy living, and they certainly aren't a hedge against a Christian falling into sin.  A life in Christ produces obedience to Biblical living, but living by a list of rules doesn't produce holiness, lest the Amish and Muslims have us all beat.

One question:  Can you talk out of both sides of your mouth and still whistle?

You want it both ways.  Decide. 

You say, "Nobody has said that "standards" aren't an outcome of holy living."  Taaa-daaa!!!!  So, if you live holy, from that holy living will come a LIST (oh, the dreaded word!!!) of Biblical standards of life.  Then you want to poo-poo any list of standards. 

I agree, a man may have outward standards and not be inwardly holy.  MIGHT.  But no man has inward holiness that does not have outward standards. 

This whole walking on the beach in a bikini yet speaking of inward holiness stuff makes God sick.  Or cross dressing.  Or sipping booze. Or................ wait, I gotta STOP.  A LIST is forming..............AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

If you go against the Biblical principles of proper dress and conduct, you are not still INWARDLY HOLY.  One may adhere to the Biblical principles of dress and conduct, and be INWARDLY VILE.  Got it.  MAY BE.

No adherence to Biblical standards = no inward holiness.

Adherence to Biblical standards = may or may not have inward holiness. 

All this talk of "walking in the Spirit" -- you evangelicals pretending to be IFB seem to seldom want to use His first name.......He is the HOLY Spirit.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Frag]One question:  Can you talk out of both sides of your mouth and still whistle?

You want it both ways.  Decide. 

You say, "Nobody has said that "standards" aren't an outcome of holy living."  Taaa-daaa!!!!  So, if you live holy, from that holy living will come a LIST (oh, the dreaded word!!!) of Biblical standards of life.  Then you want to poo-poo any list of standards. 

I agree, a man may have outward standards and not be inwardly holy.  MIGHT.  But no man has inward holiness that does not have outward standards. 

This whole walking on the beach in a bikini yet speaking of inward holiness stuff makes God sick.  Or cross dressing.  Or sipping booze. Or................ wait, I gotta STOP.  A LIST is forming..............AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

If you go against the Biblical principles of proper dress and conduct, you are not still INWARDLY HOLY.  One may adhere to the Biblical principles of dress and conduct, and be INWARDLY VILE.  Got it.  MAY BE. [/quote]

It would be nice if the Bible provided a list of expected standards for those who are holy...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 ESV)

... Gosh, darn it! What do you know? There is a list of standards in the Bible. I'm having a hard time finding anything about bikinis or alcohol in that list though.  :-\

[quote author=Frag]No adherence to Biblical standards = no inward holiness.

Adherence to Biblical standards = may or may not have inward holiness.  [/quote]

That sounds an awful lot like Wesleyan Perfectionism and/or performance-based Christianity.

[quote author=Frag]All this talk of "walking in the Spirit" -- you evangelicals pretending to be IFB seem to seldom want to use His first name.......He is the HOLY Spirit.[/quote]

Do you next criticize Paul the Apostle?

 

[samspade]

It would be nice if the Bible provided a list of expected standards for those who are holy...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 ESV)

... Gosh, darn it! What do you know? There is a list of standards in the Bible. I'm having a hard time finding anything about bikinis or alcohol in that list though.  :-\

Better watch it or you'll kill all his gnats.

 

[Frag]

[quote author=Frag]One question:  Can you talk out of both sides of your mouth and still whistle?

You want it both ways.  Decide. 

You say, "Nobody has said that "standards" aren't an outcome of holy living."  Taaa-daaa!!!!  So, if you live holy, from that holy living will come a LIST (oh, the dreaded word!!!) of Biblical standards of life.  Then you want to poo-poo any list of standards. 

I agree, a man may have outward standards and not be inwardly holy.  MIGHT.  But no man has inward holiness that does not have outward standards. 

This whole walking on the beach in a bikini yet speaking of inward holiness stuff makes God sick.  Or cross dressing.  Or sipping booze. Or................ wait, I gotta STOP.  A LIST is forming..............AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

If you go against the Biblical principles of proper dress and conduct, you are not still INWARDLY HOLY.  One may adhere to the Biblical principles of dress and conduct, and be INWARDLY VILE.  Got it.  MAY BE.

It would be nice if the Bible provided a list of expected standards for those who are holy...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 ESV)

... Gosh, darn it! What do you know? There is a list of standards in the Bible. I'm having a hard time finding anything about bikinis or alcohol in that list though.  :-\

[quote author=Frag]No adherence to Biblical standards = no inward holiness.

Adherence to Biblical standards = may or may not have inward holiness.  [/quote]

That sounds an awful lot like Wesleyan Perfectionism and/or performance-based Christianity.

[quote author=Frag]All this talk of "walking in the Spirit" -- you evangelicals pretending to be IFB seem to seldom want to use His first name.......He is the HOLY Spirit.[/quote]

Do you next criticize Paul the Apostle?
[/quote]


Gee, you are right!  Gal 5 provides the only list in the Bible!  My bad.....

You think you will not be judged at the bema seat by your performance?  What are striving to hear from the Lord?  Well existed thou good and faithful servant?  Your kind mutters "God isn't concerned about what we do, He is concerned about what we are" as you dig a hole to bury your one talent -- you can expect to hear "Thou wicked and slothful servant..."

Think....if you want to hear "well done" it might actually require DOING something. 

No, Paul and me are on the same page:  2 Corinthians 7:1  Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Frag]Gee, you are right!  Gal 5 provides the only list in the Bible!  My bad.....[/quote]

Not the only list, but I have yet to find a list that includes abstinence from bikinis or whiskey.

[quote author=Frag]You think you will not be judged at the bema seat by your performance?[/quote]

God knows I hope not.

[quote author=Frag]What are striving to hear from the Lord?  Well existed thou good and faithful servant?  Your kind mutters "God isn't concerned about what we do, He is concerned about what we are" as you dig a hole to bury your one talent -- you can expect to hear "Thou wicked and slothful servant..."

Think....if you want to hear "well done" it might actually require DOING something.  [/quote]

Fundamental difference: we do because we are, not we are because we do.

[quote author=Frag]No, Paul and me are on the same page:  2 Corinthians 7:1  Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.[/quote]

Paul gets it right. "Having therefore these promises...." In other words, because we are, then do.

(I was also referring to you criticizing others for saying "Spirit" instead of "Holy Spirit". They are just following the example of Paul.)

 

[Frag]

Breaking News!!!!  Standards Sank the Titanic!!!

Edward Smith, the captain of the Titanic may not be at fault after all.  Some of the artifacts retrieved from the wreckage include a pair of coulottes, a KJ Bible, aN alcohol prohibition pamphlet, a pair of barber shears designed to taper hair, and Amazing Grace sheet music.  Also, a thorough study of the crew members (by Alayman) has revealed that the great, great aunt of Lester Roloff worked in the ship's kitchen, making muffins. 


STANDARDS SANK THE UNSINKABLE SHIP!!!!

 

[Boomer]

[quote author=prophet]If you knew English, you'd realize that 'condemn' means 'sentence to death, and Hell afterwards'.  You don't 'absolutely condemn' anyone.  You don't 'absolutely' anything.  You are a coward. 

con

 

[Frag]

Breaking News!!!!  Standards Caused Attack on Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Commander Mitsuo Fuchida is often demonized for leading the surprise attack on our Hawaiian military base, however Alayman has discovered that he was actually heavily influenced to do so by IFB extremist!    Well, kinda.  His house maid, Ti Tan Tong was sent a porcelain figurine of three butterflies in flight by an uncle who had recently immigrated to America.  Apparently this uncle had wrapped the figurine in a discarded Sword newspaper.  This same house maid who had touched the Sword paper prepared Fuchida's lunch without washing her hands!!!  The next day -- you guessed it  -- he gets in a plane and attacks the USA!!! 

STANDARDS FORCE AMERICA INTO WWII!!!!

 

[Boomer]

Why is it, do you think, that the Pharisees thought that this situation would provide ought to take Him with?

The Pharisees attempted to put Jesus into a dilemma. On the one hand, if Jesus said to stone the woman, they could accuse Him to the Roman authorities. On the other hand, if Jesus told them not to stone her, they could accuse him in their own religious court.

Jesus did not advocate either position. He simply chose a third option the Pharisees didn't know about: Let the sinless execute judgment

One may say that Jesus dodged the question, and that the proper thing to do was to stone the woman, but he later said to the woman, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more." He took the same line of reasoning with the woman at the well.


I condemn child molestation in any form (especially when perpetrated by so called spiritual leaders). I believe the best way to handle such cases is for the pastor to call the police and assist them in any way possible. I condemn the decision of any pastor who tries to cover up such sin, or in some cases to "rehabilitate" such men by moving them to another facet of the "ministry." Pastors should sweep nothing under the rug. Give such cases over to the police.


As for millstones, Jesus said: "Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mr 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Lu 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

This is important. Jesus said that it was better for that man to be drowned. What He is teaching here is that the one who offends a child will face a very severe punishment when he stands before God's throne.

What Jesus did not say: Jesus did not command his disciples to hang millstones around the necks of anyone. He did not command his disciples to drown anyone. Jesus neither commanded it, nor did He imply that anyone should do such a thing.


I respectfully disagree with you, Prophet. I mean no disrespect. I enjoy a good dialogue and a good debate. There is no need for name calling. Let's not bring the spirit of the old, unmoderated forum to the new forum.

 

[BALAAM]

Breaking News!!!!  Standards Caused Attack on Pearl Harbor!!!

Japanese Commander Mitsuo Fuchida is often demonized for leading the surprise attack on our Hawaiian military base, however Alayman has discovered that he was actually heavily influenced to do so by IFB extremist!    Well, kinda.  His house maid, Ti Tan Tong was sent a porcelain figurine of three butterflies in flight by an uncle who had recently immigrated to America.  Apparently this uncle had wrapped the figurine in a discarded Sword newspaper.  This same house maid who had touched the Sword paper prepared Fuchida's lunch without washing her hands!!!  The next day -- you guessed it  -- he gets in a plane and attacks the USA!!! 

STANDARDS FORCE AMERICA INTO WWII!!!!

I used to be "one of these" Fragsters.