Alumni Meeting

[qwerty]

Payment not in budget, paid by an individual - eluding to that individual not paying anymore.

A generous sum of money was given to the ministry by way of Schaap. It is my understanding that it was enough to pay for a generous amount of the new building if not all of it.  What happened to the money is the question.  Some of it may have been used to purchase the Federal Building and remodeling of that, as well as other buildings on the properties.  It may have been used for other remodeling projects throughout the ministries.  There seems to have been no accounting for the donated money so no one really knows. 

When Schaap was told to take a hike, and he told the deacons, "Good luck paying for the building without me", makes me wonder if he was not personally sitting on the funds....or exhausted the funds.

 

[cast.sheep]

Great man of God you got there......

 

[bgwilkinson]

In this new finance committee is the head guy still the guy that was convicted of embezzlement from his secular employer? (Again I am open to the right answer if not)

Seems legit.

What could possibly go wrong?

*head desk*

BG you did not address this.

I'm not sure what the conviction was for but here is the rest of the story that I have gotten from a number of sources. This is well known and not at all secret on the deacon board.

He appealed immediately upon sentencing to the Federal Appeals Court and they reversed the conviction and vacated the sentence because of egregious prosecutorial conduct ie. withholding of evidence was at top of list.

Things moved slowly, it took them until after he had served the sentence to make the final ruling. Result is legally as if he was never convicted in the first place. He got all his tax and law licenses back and can now practice tax law in federal court as before. It is a wonder he is not bitter, but he is not.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I would even question their new refinancing scheme. What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?

If John Wilkerson wants to show some integrity about finances he needs to bring in a NEW, completely unaffiliated, and reputable CPA to manage all their finances.

SMH

Quote:

"What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?"

Answer. A bank that is being closed by the FDIC due to criminal activity. A bank that is being liquidated at fire-sale prices. The value just goes up in smoke, figuratively speaking.



I found this out from some of my friends.

The original mortgage holder was a South Chicago Bank that was famous as an organized crime bank.

The FDIC took them over and forced them to sell all of their loans at fire sale prices so they could close down the bank. Well it's closed and gone. Other banks bought the loans at steep discounts. The actual amount that was paid for the loan is confidential and is not known by the church, however people in the know about bank liquidations and discounted loans say the discount was probably something like .50 to .70 on the dollar.

There are also other banks that were trying to make an extra buck off the deal and were caught by the FDIC with their pants down, so to speak, as well. What we have is banks behaving badly. Somewhere in there the loans just kept getting smaller. They are now all highly motivated to dump these loans at a discount again to get the FDIC heat off of them. Church benefits unbelievably.

Please, this is a simplified explanation, illustrating where the money went. Exact details may differ but the church will save millions because of bad bank behavior.

Next May is when we must refinance.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Payment not in budget, paid by an individual - eluding to that individual not paying anymore.

A generous sum of money was given to the ministry by way of Schaap. It is my understanding that it was enough to pay for a generous amount of the new building if not all of it.  What happened to the money is the question.  Some of it may have been used to purchase the Federal Building and remodeling of that, as well as other buildings on the properties.  It may have been used for other remodeling projects throughout the ministries.  There seems to have been no accounting for the donated money so no one really knows. 

When Schaap was told to take a hike, and he told the deacons, "Good luck paying for the building without me", makes me wonder if he was not personally sitting on the funds....or exhausted the funds.

While talking to some friends today I posed the question about how much money came from our friend on the East coast. I got all kinds of figures from $60,000,000.00 to $100,000,000.00, wow thats a lot of money. That would have easily built two or three auditorium buildings.

Shortly after the Schaap debacle in 2012 our friend from the East coast came into Hammond for about a week along with his accounting wizards saying he wanted to audit the churches books. He wanted to find out how he could have given all that money and still have a multimillion dollar loan on the auditorium.
They said the  man was devastated, he's  not so young any more.

I'm told he was most surprised to find out that most of his money went for operating expenses instead of assets and capital improvements.

His money was paying the salaries of church and college employees. That why the chuch and college looked like they were doing well with a mountain of employees. They weren't it was smoke and mirrors and other peoples money. Losing money big time all of these years. No wonder the college was almost shut down after the egg man was here.

One bit of good news I noticed in the Wednesday prayer sheet was the trust fund to pay off the mortgage was over $80,000.00 in just one week. Maybe we will meet our goal of $1,000,000.00 if we keep that up.

 

[WESLEY]

I would even question their new refinancing scheme. What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?

If John Wilkerson wants to show some integrity about finances he needs to bring in a NEW, completely unaffiliated, and reputable CPA to manage all their finances.

SMH

Who are the deacons on the finance committee?

Quote:

"What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?"

Answer. A bank that is being closed by the FDIC due to criminal activity. A bank that is being liquidated at fire-sale prices. The value just goes up in smoke, figuratively speaking.



I found this out from some of my friends.

The original mortgage holder was a South Chicago Bank that was famous as an organized crime bank.

The FDIC took them over and forced them to sell all of their loans at fire sale prices so they could close down the bank. Well it's closed and gone. Other banks bought the loans at steep discounts.

There are also other banks that were trying to make an extra buck off the deal and were caught by the FDIC with their pants down, so to speak, as well. What we have is banks behaving badly. Somewhere in there the loans just kept getting smaller. They are now all highly motivated to dump these loans at a discount again to get the FDIC heat off of them. Church benefits unbelievably.

Please, this is a simplified explanation, illustrating where the money went. Exact details may differ but the church will save millions because of bad bank behavior.

Next May is when we must refinance.

 

[Matthew1323]

Excellent thread!

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

What a disturbing choice for Golden State Baptist College's Alumnus of the week:

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/09/poster-boys/

So, is this another obvious problem Wilkerson will not be addressing?

Let's get all the alumni together and sing Kum-By-ah!

 

[TidesofTruth]

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2014/09/poster-boys/

So, is this another obvious problem Wilkerson will not be addressing?

How do you know it hasn't already been addressed?  And by all means we must make sure that we not associate, nor allow someone to ship books and make sure the printing gets done by anyone who had trouble in their past that the courts deemed to expunge and to cease any listings in any databases even though California is a LIFETIME requirement.  Seems like there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

Does he pastor?  No
Does he teach? No
Does he have anything to do with young people? No

Has he had anything else in his life exposed since restoration to forbid him from being a servant?

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

Travesty in your eyes.  If all you think you know about the case were true then it might be so.  You don't know all you think you know.

 

[rsc2a]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

Travesty in your eyes.  If all you think you know about the case were true then it might be so.  You don't know all you think you know.

"...above reproach...thought well of by outsiders..."

 

[TidesofTruth]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

Travesty in your eyes.  If all you think you know about the case were true then it might be so.  You don't know all you think you know.

"...above reproach...thought well of by outsiders..."

Give me context.  Show me a context where the Guy who ships out books and make sure printing gets done has these requirements.

Shhheeeeesh I am so glad I have a God of mercy and grace you freebirds all claim!

 

[rsc2a]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

Travesty in your eyes.  If all you think you know about the case were true then it might be so.  You don't know all you think you know.

"...above reproach...thought well of by outsiders..."

Give me context.  Show me a context where the Guy who ships out books and make sure printing gets done has these requirements.

Shhheeeeesh I am so glad I have a God of mercy and grace you freebirds all claim!

Oh...you are running a business, not functioning as the ekklesia.

Carry on then.

 

[TidesofTruth]

but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him,

The Judge and all powers that be expunged the record and any and all records in any OFFICIAL databases that require sexual offenders to register were eliminated. 

Yeah judges do that all the time for sexual abusers.  Tell me another one.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Sexually abusing a 14 year old is cause to disallow him from being employed by such an Christian organization. Does this place have any real standards at all?

It is a travesty that he was able to get his criminal conviction for sexual abuse expunged, but record of it still exists in data bases since the victim then went on to sue him, Tim Ruhl and Pleasant Valley Baptist Church in civil court over the issue.

Travesty in your eyes.  If all you think you know about the case were true then it might be so.  You don't know all you think you know.

"...above reproach...thought well of by outsiders..."

Give me context.  Show me a context where the Guy who ships out books and make sure printing gets done has these requirements.

Shhheeeeesh I am so glad I have a God of mercy and grace you freebirds all claim!

Oh...you are running a business, not functioning as the ekklesia.

Carry on then.

No you abuser of scripture.  You who call out chapter and verse until it is called on you.  Show me your scripture for the Ekklesia that requires the doorman or the usher or the secretary on anyone else other than the Pastor/Bishop/Elder/Teacher and Deacon to live up to the requirements to be a servant in the church, you have liberally abused in your sad attempt to make a scriptural sounding law.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=TidesofTruth]No you abuser of scripture.  You who call out chapter and verse until it is called on you.  Show me your scripture for the Ekklesia that requires the doorman or the usher or the secretary on anyone else other than the Pastor/Bishop/Elder/Teacher and Deacon to live up to the requirements to be a servant in the church, you have liberally abused in your sad attempt to make a scriptural sounding law.[/quote]

If he is taking care of the physical needs of the assembly so the elders/pastors can devote themselves more fully to prayer, study, and pastoring, then he is functionally a deacon. I don't care if you call him a mailman, a book sorter, an assistant or even a spork...it doesn't change the fact that he's acting the part of a deacon. Don't let some denominations' screwed-up "Biblical" titles that don't actually follow the Biblical usage confuse you here.

 

[BALAAM]

Seems to me it would be rather difficult every time a church bus  breaks down to check the credentials of the tow truck driver, mechanic, or gas station employee. Same goes for every worker who the church has to pay to do essential tasks. A direct and full-time church employee maybe a different story but I know for a fact this guy has been trying for years to put his life back together.

On the other hand; we are talking about a church with a long history of being pretty lax on moral standards with some of its leaders. If you are not in tune with all the separation standards to a tee you will be shown the door, but morality seems to be easier to deal with. (or not deal)

 

[TidesofTruth]

[quote author=TidesofTruth]No you abuser of scripture.  You who call out chapter and verse until it is called on you.  Show me your scripture for the Ekklesia that requires the doorman or the usher or the secretary on anyone else other than the Pastor/Bishop/Elder/Teacher and Deacon to live up to the requirements to be a servant in the church, you have liberally abused in your sad attempt to make a scriptural sounding law.

If he is taking care of the physical needs of the assembly so the elders/pastors can devote themselves more fully to prayer, study, and pastoring, then he is functionally a deacon. I don't care if you call him a mailman, a book sorter, an assistant or even a spork...it doesn't change the fact that he's acting the part of a deacon. Don't let some denominations' screwed-up "Biblical" titles that don't actually follow the Biblical usage confuse you here.
[/quote]

WOW!  You made him a deacon.  By your word now He is a deacon.  UNBELIEVABLE!

We got a whole Mission full of homeless deacons.  Never knew that.  /Shakes Head

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=TidesofTruth]No you abuser of scripture.  You who call out chapter and verse until it is called on you.  Show me your scripture for the Ekklesia that requires the doorman or the usher or the secretary on anyone else other than the Pastor/Bishop/Elder/Teacher and Deacon to live up to the requirements to be a servant in the church, you have liberally abused in your sad attempt to make a scriptural sounding law.

If he is taking care of the physical needs of the assembly so the elders/pastors can devote themselves more fully to prayer, study, and pastoring, then he is functionally a deacon. I don't care if you call him a mailman, a book sorter, an assistant or even a spork...it doesn't change the fact that he's acting the part of a deacon. Don't let some denominations' screwed-up "Biblical" titles that don't actually follow the Biblical usage confuse you here.

WOW!  You made him a deacon.  By your word now He is a deacon.  UNBELIEVABLE!

We got a whole Mission full of homeless deacons.  Never knew that.  /Shakes Head[/quote]

I didn't make him anything. I don't attend that church.