Alumni Meeting
- Thread starter Fresh Air
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cast.sheep said:
I totally understand, and the one question I fought myself all day over whether to ask JW or not was why he has kept the staff. I finally decided not to ask him, for several different reasons, but it is still a huge problem with me, and with a lot of other alumni that I know. You aren't alone in this, by any means.
Tennessean said:
No, though in personal conversation with the guy in charge of the online program, it did come up. The context was the fact that the college will always struggle to attract substantial numbers online b/c of it. But nothing to show a change of mind about it.
...and I'm glad. But that's a can of worms so I probably should just leave it there.
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HAC and similar colleges claim that they refuse to be accredited. The truth is, they CANNOT be accredited because they cannot build a large enough staff that is academically qualified to teach on the college level.
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I don't know that it is inevitable that Pastor Wilkerson will be corrupted, but it must be hard for him to swim upstream against a hard current...
The latest financial challenge certainly is a rather big addition to the load he has been asked to carry since becoming pastor. Short version: If we can raise $1,000,000 then there is a bank that will extend us a refinanced loan and they will even knock a significant chunk off of the total amount due. (I believe they will knock off 1 or 2 million...) So....we are in the midst of a giving campaign. Girls are having garage sales, boys are kicking in chunks of change. Pastor actually kicked it off with a huge sacrificial contribution. Rather ironic since he was not part of the problem. I personally think the deacon board and the chief operations manager of the church really should step down but that is me...at the very least, I hope they (deacon board and EL) will personally have lots of door-to-door candy sales and fundraisers so that they can each contribute significantly to the solution as they contributed significantly to the problem.
So this is another aspect of the finances here, and Pastor is quite confident we will raise the requisite cash and will then be sitting in a better position with a refinanced loan that has been reduced in outstanding balance.
There was a day when a Sugar Daddy would have stepped in and taken care of the problem with one fell swoop. I don't think anyone will learn a lesson if that happens...It would just be taken as further proof God approves unequivocally of everything that goes on here and will wink at everything just to keep this ship afloat.
Tom, your report is appreciated. People cannot understand that the attitude of the Pastor here is entirely the polar opposite of what it has been in the past until they actually meet and interact with Pastor Wilkerson.
No one is completely sure why he seems to completely support people who -- in the opinion of many -- should not be receiving his / our complete support. But without putting words in the Pastor's mouth, it seems he truly thinks God needs to do the sorting out, and not him. I could be wrong.
I know in the JS years, it was almost a guarantee that if you were hired to his staff, if you were in his band of merry men, it was because he had something on you. Either you had been convicted of something or you had a secret that he knew and could use to keep you in line. So now all of his "hires" who are still in their positions are looked at with suspicion. I just personally wonder how long I should mentally leave someone "on the hook".
For, while we look at certain staff members with suspicion, new people are joining the church and new students are coming to the college who know nothing of any of this and don't care. Do we toss our suspicions and questions aside, roll up our sleeves, work side-by-side and let bygones be bygones?
Probably that is what needs to or will inevitably happen. How long can grudges be held, especially if there is no recourse for resolution?
Again, though, when the current financial difficulty was explained -- again no one apologized. No one took ownership. In situations like this, deacons have actually defensively / defiantly reminded us, "You voted on this." (meaning approval of the loan for the building or other such huge things)
And anyone who has ever been in a FBC knows what an FBC business meeting is like...so yes, maybe we did 'vote' for it. Well, not me. Being a lady I know I am not allowed to speak in church unless I am singing, so I never chime in on the "All in favor say yea and it's carried"... so technically, I did not vote for it.
The latest financial challenge certainly is a rather big addition to the load he has been asked to carry since becoming pastor. Short version: If we can raise $1,000,000 then there is a bank that will extend us a refinanced loan and they will even knock a significant chunk off of the total amount due. (I believe they will knock off 1 or 2 million...) So....we are in the midst of a giving campaign. Girls are having garage sales, boys are kicking in chunks of change. Pastor actually kicked it off with a huge sacrificial contribution. Rather ironic since he was not part of the problem. I personally think the deacon board and the chief operations manager of the church really should step down but that is me...at the very least, I hope they (deacon board and EL) will personally have lots of door-to-door candy sales and fundraisers so that they can each contribute significantly to the solution as they contributed significantly to the problem.
So this is another aspect of the finances here, and Pastor is quite confident we will raise the requisite cash and will then be sitting in a better position with a refinanced loan that has been reduced in outstanding balance.
There was a day when a Sugar Daddy would have stepped in and taken care of the problem with one fell swoop. I don't think anyone will learn a lesson if that happens...It would just be taken as further proof God approves unequivocally of everything that goes on here and will wink at everything just to keep this ship afloat.
Tom, your report is appreciated. People cannot understand that the attitude of the Pastor here is entirely the polar opposite of what it has been in the past until they actually meet and interact with Pastor Wilkerson.
No one is completely sure why he seems to completely support people who -- in the opinion of many -- should not be receiving his / our complete support. But without putting words in the Pastor's mouth, it seems he truly thinks God needs to do the sorting out, and not him. I could be wrong.
I know in the JS years, it was almost a guarantee that if you were hired to his staff, if you were in his band of merry men, it was because he had something on you. Either you had been convicted of something or you had a secret that he knew and could use to keep you in line. So now all of his "hires" who are still in their positions are looked at with suspicion. I just personally wonder how long I should mentally leave someone "on the hook".
For, while we look at certain staff members with suspicion, new people are joining the church and new students are coming to the college who know nothing of any of this and don't care. Do we toss our suspicions and questions aside, roll up our sleeves, work side-by-side and let bygones be bygones?
Probably that is what needs to or will inevitably happen. How long can grudges be held, especially if there is no recourse for resolution?
Again, though, when the current financial difficulty was explained -- again no one apologized. No one took ownership. In situations like this, deacons have actually defensively / defiantly reminded us, "You voted on this." (meaning approval of the loan for the building or other such huge things)
And anyone who has ever been in a FBC knows what an FBC business meeting is like...so yes, maybe we did 'vote' for it. Well, not me. Being a lady I know I am not allowed to speak in church unless I am singing, so I never chime in on the "All in favor say yea and it's carried"... so technically, I did not vote for it.
Brain is Engaged,...
I was waiting for someone to bring this stuff up.
I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign.
Then the deacon chairman gets up and takes time, on a service that was already full of extras to read a letter. He got choked up,... I thought for sure he and several others would accept their part of what happened and resign. Nope. Just a letter read to say that they support the pastor 100% and this church is about lifting Christ. Two things about that: to me it's the same letter they would have read to Jack Schaap 10 years ago and it rings hollow. 2nd, isn't it understood that the deacons are behind the pastor???
The fund raising idea kind of upset some people. The people on charge of the finances that led to the current circumstances are still in charge. Secondly why not have people give their leased cars back as a way to raise money. People lost their jobs while others kept cars on a lease.
Just some thoughts?
I was waiting for someone to bring this stuff up.
I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign.
Then the deacon chairman gets up and takes time, on a service that was already full of extras to read a letter. He got choked up,... I thought for sure he and several others would accept their part of what happened and resign. Nope. Just a letter read to say that they support the pastor 100% and this church is about lifting Christ. Two things about that: to me it's the same letter they would have read to Jack Schaap 10 years ago and it rings hollow. 2nd, isn't it understood that the deacons are behind the pastor???
The fund raising idea kind of upset some people. The people on charge of the finances that led to the current circumstances are still in charge. Secondly why not have people give their leased cars back as a way to raise money. People lost their jobs while others kept cars on a lease.
Just some thoughts?
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Well, Bravo, our reactions / feelings echo yours.
The thought that Pastor Wilkerson might be announcing his resignation at that meeting crossed our minds, too...
When the true intent of the meeting was revealed, it was one of those "I'll have to chew on this for a while" things. And I'm still chewing on it, truthfully.
Since day one, I have strongly felt that the entire deacon board should resign. That is not to say every man on that board is bad or evil. However, good and true men have resigned the board out of frustration that there seems to be a ruling dynasty that makes it impossible for honest discussion or principled objections to exist. Every deacon should resign and a new deacon board should be formed. Men who have not previously been deacons or men who were not on the board during the JS era. There are enough in the church to fill a new deacon board.
This would be SO refreshing.
And I agree completely -- Mr. Duff is quite good at giving us heartfelt, choked up statements that in effect say nothing. He said something to the effect, "We now have a Pastor who is pointing us to Christ." So are you saying this is a first? Our previous Pastors, whom you followed blindly to the point of getting us in some major, major moral and financial trouble -- they were NOT followers of Christ? And you men who did NOT have the discernment to detect this are still the 'movers and shakers' at our church? It is not right. Have some integrity and resign.
No one has ever gotten up there and owned their part in anything. No one has actually ever apologized for anything.
And yes, I think people have a right to question or take time to consider this new drive to raise the big monies. Some who question nothing are diving in with enthusiasm and are embracing the opportunity to help the church by any means possible. Others are sitting back and really weighing the situation. Pastor did allude to that last night. He said that over 50,000 has been raised so far in the first week. He said some people are sitting back and waiting to see what will happen and he chided that attitude and encouraged everyone to dive in with their contributions.
I didn't know about the leased cars...I seem not to be in on a lot of this type of information. It does make sense that could be another area where cutbacks could help.
The thought that Pastor Wilkerson might be announcing his resignation at that meeting crossed our minds, too...
When the true intent of the meeting was revealed, it was one of those "I'll have to chew on this for a while" things. And I'm still chewing on it, truthfully.
Since day one, I have strongly felt that the entire deacon board should resign. That is not to say every man on that board is bad or evil. However, good and true men have resigned the board out of frustration that there seems to be a ruling dynasty that makes it impossible for honest discussion or principled objections to exist. Every deacon should resign and a new deacon board should be formed. Men who have not previously been deacons or men who were not on the board during the JS era. There are enough in the church to fill a new deacon board.
This would be SO refreshing.
And I agree completely -- Mr. Duff is quite good at giving us heartfelt, choked up statements that in effect say nothing. He said something to the effect, "We now have a Pastor who is pointing us to Christ." So are you saying this is a first? Our previous Pastors, whom you followed blindly to the point of getting us in some major, major moral and financial trouble -- they were NOT followers of Christ? And you men who did NOT have the discernment to detect this are still the 'movers and shakers' at our church? It is not right. Have some integrity and resign.
No one has ever gotten up there and owned their part in anything. No one has actually ever apologized for anything.
And yes, I think people have a right to question or take time to consider this new drive to raise the big monies. Some who question nothing are diving in with enthusiasm and are embracing the opportunity to help the church by any means possible. Others are sitting back and really weighing the situation. Pastor did allude to that last night. He said that over 50,000 has been raised so far in the first week. He said some people are sitting back and waiting to see what will happen and he chided that attitude and encouraged everyone to dive in with their contributions.
I didn't know about the leased cars...I seem not to be in on a lot of this type of information. It does make sense that could be another area where cutbacks could help.
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"Band of merry men". HAHAHAHA! So TRUE! JS was in Stuart Mason's wedding. When JS hired SM , the college fixed up his house before he ever moved in it. (And the house was already nicer than most staff's, by far.) Nice perk for a brand new staff member. Not many new staff members got that royal treatment. The college buildings were falling apart, but they still had to take what meager $$$ they had and use it to fix up the SM house. Then, SM moved up the ladder rather swiftly (complaining the whole way). It was obvious to everyone that he was "chosen". Hard to swallow for loyal staff who lived on pauper's wages for years and worked their behinds off for the few crumbs that fell from the master's table.
The Brat Pack: Mason, K. Schaap, Tefft, S. Gray. Not all bad guys, but together definitely carried an air of superiority. 8)
(Reminder to self: God is in control. Get over it.)
The Brat Pack: Mason, K. Schaap, Tefft, S. Gray. Not all bad guys, but together definitely carried an air of superiority. 8)
(Reminder to self: God is in control. Get over it.)
brainisengaged said:
Then you wonder about guest speakers and special conferences,...
And having to deal with going against the blind loyalty we were taught to have,... Does that make us rebels or mean we have a discerning spirit?
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"What made you both think that Pastor Wilkerson would resign?"
Just that it was announced there was going to be a very important announcement to the membership...then the announcement that it wasn't going to be shown online...then asking the membership to plan on staying after the evening service...it was the buildup, seemed so serious that our minds raced to, "It must be something really big"
Just that it was announced there was going to be a very important announcement to the membership...then the announcement that it wasn't going to be shown online...then asking the membership to plan on staying after the evening service...it was the buildup, seemed so serious that our minds raced to, "It must be something really big"
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From Bravo: "And having to deal with going against the blind loyalty we were taught to have,... Does that make us rebels or mean we have a discerning spirit?"
I know--- and what I keep pondering is this: I can no longer hear a blanket statement, an assertion, a claim of Biblical truth or principal without thinking, "I must investigate this for myself." My level of trust is pretty much at zero now. Not that I think Pastor Wilkerson is trying to pull anything or has an agenda. Don't mistake me. I just don't automatically trust everything I am told anymore. I do realize I never should have in the first place...lesson learned....but at what point does this "rightly dividing" become pure skepticism? Will I ever be able to trust again?
p.s. I don't just mean statements about Biblical truths / applications. I mean any announcement about basically any thing...I figured out at one point that when JS used to get up there before the offering and rave and rave about what fantastic and sacrificial givers we all were and praise us to the skies and say there is no problem, that was code for: 'There is a big problem with finances in that there are not enough and you need to give more.' Now that I know reverse psychology doublespeak is a pattern of the pulpit (at least for some...), it makes me think twice about what I am hearing.
I know--- and what I keep pondering is this: I can no longer hear a blanket statement, an assertion, a claim of Biblical truth or principal without thinking, "I must investigate this for myself." My level of trust is pretty much at zero now. Not that I think Pastor Wilkerson is trying to pull anything or has an agenda. Don't mistake me. I just don't automatically trust everything I am told anymore. I do realize I never should have in the first place...lesson learned....but at what point does this "rightly dividing" become pure skepticism? Will I ever be able to trust again?
p.s. I don't just mean statements about Biblical truths / applications. I mean any announcement about basically any thing...I figured out at one point that when JS used to get up there before the offering and rave and rave about what fantastic and sacrificial givers we all were and praise us to the skies and say there is no problem, that was code for: 'There is a big problem with finances in that there are not enough and you need to give more.' Now that I know reverse psychology doublespeak is a pattern of the pulpit (at least for some...), it makes me think twice about what I am hearing.
Bravo said:
Ok. I've got to ask. What in the world? I mean, I know DeCoster paid a bunch of payments, but you mean they actually reworked the budget so that the mortgage wasn't even in there at all? What kind of nonsense is that?
I would even question their new refinancing scheme. What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?
If John Wilkerson wants to show some integrity about finances he needs to bring in a NEW, completely unaffiliated, and reputable CPA to manage all their finances.
SMH
If John Wilkerson wants to show some integrity about finances he needs to bring in a NEW, completely unaffiliated, and reputable CPA to manage all their finances.
SMH
Tom Brennan said:
A missed opportunity to ask about the HUGE elephant in the middle of the FBCH room. This is one failure of Wilkerson's that will come back to bite him.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a healthy amount of skepticism. Civilization can thank all of those that question everything for the many advances we continue to enjoy.
Also, anyone that declares something to be true should be prepared with facts to back that assertion and will welcome the challenge. Anyone unprepared will lean on blind loyalty to prevent having to provide reason, logic and evidence.
This is all my opinion, but it is also my observation.
Also, anyone that declares something to be true should be prepared with facts to back that assertion and will welcome the challenge. Anyone unprepared will lean on blind loyalty to prevent having to provide reason, logic and evidence.
This is all my opinion, but it is also my observation.
brainisengaged said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
Apparently the originating bank no longer exists and the loan was bought out by a 2nd bank. That bank is looking to divest itself of some large loans, of which FBC's is the largest (still the biggest lol). So another bank is willing to refinance at a loss. If I understood right.