Would Schapp still be pastor

[RAIDER]

If he had an affair with and 18 yr old & had not gone to jail;

1. Would he still be pastor today?  Yes
2. Would he still have great influence within his camp today?  Maybe
3. Would He still be married today? Yes
4. Would his son be the "Heir to the Throne" today? Maybe in 15 years.
5. Would Hac be struggling more than it is today? NO!
The HAC attendance has been on a multi-decade downward trend.
It has been bleeding off about 70 to 100 students a year since the 90s.

You actually think that if Schaap had an affair and it was known by the deacons of FBCH that he would still be pastor?

 

[bgwilkinson]

If he had an affair with and 18 yr old & had not gone to jail;

1. Would he still be pastor today?  Yes
2. Would he still have great influence within his camp today?  Maybe
3. Would He still be married today? Yes
4. Would his son be the "Heir to the Throne" today? Maybe in 15 years.
5. Would Hac be struggling more than it is today? NO!
The HAC attendance has been on a multi-decade downward trend.
It has been bleeding off about 70 to 100 students a year since the 90s.

You actually think that if Schaap had an affair and it was known by the deacons of FBCH that he would still be pastor?

If there were no selfies and no witnesses, he said she said, Yes.

 

[BALAAM]

See...this is the stuff that gets me.....

A woman puts on a pair of pants and she isn't even worthy enough to work in the nursery! Buuuuut.....the Associate Pastor can get up and LIE to the entire congregation....and somehow that's ok. The pastor has an obviously inappropriate whatever with a  teenager in his church and he is offered a 6-month sabbatical.  Meanwhile a girl goes to an animated Disney movie at the theater with her father and is kicked off the cheerleading squad.  The youth pastor can cheat playing games and it's funny.  But a kid cheats on a test and he gets a zero.  50 demerits for kissing your girlfriend... 0 demerits for gossip/slander/false accusation. 

No wonder young adults are leaving by the droves. 

I believe we have a serious heart issue in our ranks.  Rules have replaced relationship. And we are seeing the results.

Just for the record: I agree totally with you. A woman who wears pants is like the worst of the worst. But, a little adultery is like : boys will be boys.

 

[bgwilkinson]

See...this is the stuff that gets me.....

A woman puts on a pair of pants and she isn't even worthy enough to work in the nursery! Buuuuut.....the Associate Pastor can get up and LIE to the entire congregation....and somehow that's ok. The pastor has an obviously inappropriate whatever with a  teenager in his church and he is offered a 6-month sabbatical.  Meanwhile a girl goes to an animated Disney movie at the theater with her father and is kicked off the cheerleading squad.  The youth pastor can cheat playing games and it's funny.  But a kid cheats on a test and he gets a zero.  50 demerits for kissing your girlfriend... 0 demerits for gossip/slander/false accusation. 

No wonder young adults are leaving by the droves. 

I believe we have a serious heart issue in our ranks.  Rules have replaced relationship. And we are seeing the results.

Just for the record: I agree totally with you. A woman who wears pants is like the worst of the worst. But, a little adultery is like : boys will be boys.

"Great men have great needs". DH

 

[IFB X-Files]

"Great men have great needs". DH

I just spit my Mountain Dew all over the screen!

 

[SwampHag]

See...this is the stuff that gets me.....

A woman puts on a pair of pants and she isn't even worthy enough to work in the nursery! Buuuuut.....the Associate Pastor can get up and LIE to the entire congregation....and somehow that's ok. The pastor has an obviously inappropriate whatever with a  teenager in his church and he is offered a 6-month sabbatical.  Meanwhile a girl goes to an animated Disney movie at the theater with her father and is kicked off the cheerleading squad.  The youth pastor can cheat playing games and it's funny.  But a kid cheats on a test and he gets a zero.  50 demerits for kissing your girlfriend... 0 demerits for gossip/slander/false accusation. 

No wonder young adults are leaving by the droves. 

I believe we have a serious heart issue in our ranks.  Rules have replaced relationship. And we are seeing the results.

Just for the record: I agree totally with you. A woman who wears pants is like the worst of the worst. But, a little adultery is like : boys will be boys.

"Great men have great needs". DH

Wow.  Seriously??

 

[Mathew Ward]

1. Would he still be pastor today? I think without a doubt
2. Would he still have great influence within his camp today? With the newfangled HACkers or Shaapites.
3. Would He still be married today? Yes because Cindy would still be the first lady.
4. Would his son be the "Heir to the Throne" today? Most definitely
5. Would Hac be struggling more than it is today?
Not sure

What say ye?

My 2¢

 

[Bruh]

If it wouldn't have made it to the public, yes, IMO, I think so, he would still be the pastor. 

 

[brainisengaged]

Thank God, He revealed the truth. Thank God, thank God, thank God.

I know I cannot watch the sermon to which someone linked...I was there for it, but my memory is erasing it as Jehovah-Rapha heals me. 

Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech Ha’Olam, Sh’hecheyanu, V’Kiyemanu, V’Higianu LaZman HaZeh.

(sometimes you can't say it better than that: Praised are You, the Eternal One our God, Ruler of All, who has kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this moment.)

 

[BALAAM]

Thank God, He revealed the truth. Thank God, thank God, thank God.

I know I cannot watch the sermon to which someone linked...I was there for it, but my memory is erasing it as Jehovah-Rapha heals me. 

Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech Ha’Olam, Sh’hecheyanu, V’Kiyemanu, V’Higianu LaZman HaZeh.

(sometimes you can't say it better than that: Praised are You, the Eternal One our God, Ruler of All, who has kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this moment.)

Sorry but my Polish is not too good!

 

[Fresh Air]

You know how it all comes out though.  Look at the Cosby fiasco.  Once one woman came out, others followed suit like the proverbial breaking of the dam.
If there were more from Schaap's situation, why haven't they come out? 
Don't say fear b/c there are plenty of other accusers of other staff members/pastors/etc. etc. over the years.
Even if there were a 'hint' of others, SFL would be all over it like a bum on a cheap suit.
ABG would be touting it like it was the second coming of Billy Graham.

If you look up the Chicago magazine piece on JS from later that summer you will find quotes in it from a former poster here. I knew her well. She was once one of my busworkers. She counseled with him extensively in private regarding her marriage, and the wildly inappropriate conversation JS used in those counseling sessions was the reason they left the church and moved to a distant state - more than a year before JS was caught. What I am trying to say is that I do think others have come out, namely her. She told me, privately, some of the things he said to her in those counseling sessions and I cannot bring myself to even type them on an open forum.

I do not believe the situation with the teenage girl was an isolated event. And even if I'm wrong it was something he had been soliciting/seeking/reaching toward for some YEARS. He didn't fall. He jumped. Repeatedly.

 

[16KJV11]

You know how it all comes out though.  Look at the Cosby fiasco.  Once one woman came out, others followed suit like the proverbial breaking of the dam.
If there were more from Schaap's situation, why haven't they come out? 
Don't say fear b/c there are plenty of other accusers of other staff members/pastors/etc. etc. over the years.
Even if there were a 'hint' of others, SFL would be all over it like a bum on a cheap suit.
ABG would be touting it like it was the second coming of Billy Graham.

If you look up the Chicago magazine piece on JS from later that summer you will find quotes in it from a former poster here. I knew her well. She was once one of my busworkers. She counseled with him extensively in private regarding her marriage, and the wildly inappropriate conversation JS used in those counseling sessions was the reason they left the church and moved to a distant state - more than a year before JS was caught. What I am trying to say is that I do think others have come out, namely her. She told me, privately, some of the things he said to her in those counseling sessions and I cannot bring myself to even type them on an open forum.

I do not believe the situation with the teenage girl was an isolated event. And even if I'm wrong it was something he had been soliciting/seeking/reaching toward for some YEARS. He didn't fall. He jumped. Repeatedly.

I do remember that situation now, but was there actual a physical relationship with anyone? 

 

[Fresh Air]

I do remember that situation now, but was there actual a physical relationship with anyone?

Not that I can prove. But 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.' There is at least proof that JS was trying, for years, to find a victim. That behavior screams recidivism and high body counts.

 

[Sherryh]

Tom Thank you for being a help in the midst of a mess...

 

[brainisengaged]

Thank God, He revealed the truth. Thank God, thank God, thank God.

I know I cannot watch the sermon to which someone linked...I was there for it, but my memory is erasing it as Jehovah-Rapha heals me. 

Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech Ha’Olam, Sh’hecheyanu, V’Kiyemanu, V’Higianu LaZman HaZeh.

(sometimes you can't say it better than that: Praised are You, the Eternal One our God, Ruler of All, who has kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this moment.)

Sorry but my Polish is not too good!

 

[Bruh]

Would Schaap still be the Pastor?


Someone may need to help me on this one.  When Kenny Baldwin preached at the YC, was JS and the pictures already found or did that come after?

 

[GeneFrenkle]

See...this is the stuff that gets me.....

A woman puts on a pair of pants and she isn't even worthy enough to work in the nursery! Buuuuut.....the Associate Pastor can get up and LIE to the entire congregation....and somehow that's ok. The pastor has an obviously inappropriate whatever with a  teenager in his church and he is offered a 6-month sabbatical.  Meanwhile a girl goes to an animated Disney movie at the theater with her father and is kicked off the cheerleading squad.  The youth pastor can cheat playing games and it's funny.  But a kid cheats on a test and he gets a zero.  50 demerits for kissing your girlfriend... 0 demerits for gossip/slander/false accusation. 

No wonder young adults are leaving by the droves. 

I believe we have a serious heart issue in our ranks.  Rules have replaced relationship. And we are seeing the results.

Agree 100%.  Notice how Eddie has been within arm's reach of every scandal of FBCH?

 

[prophet]

never underestimate the determination of a perpetrator once caught.... to believe he can do it better a second time and get away with it.......

also......never assume that those who defended him the first time won;t rally to his side for his comeback...... with an even greater zeal than they had before........ :-

Thankfully, God guaranteed that this perp can't come back, since he is in til he's almost 70, and will be a registered sex-offender banned from any position anywhere near minors.

 

[prophet]

I do remember that situation now, but was there actual a physical relationship with anyone?

Not that I can prove. But 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.' There is at least proof that JS was trying, for years, to find a victim. That behavior screams recidivism and high body counts.

Ask the men who went to Purdue, Lafayette, with him to "minister", men like his former brother-in-law.
Maybe even Bob Marshall has a story or two, who knows?

 

[Timotheus]

You know how it all comes out though.  Look at the Cosby fiasco.  Once one woman came out, others followed suit like the proverbial breaking of the dam.
If there were more from Schaap's situation, why haven't they come out? 
Don't say fear b/c there are plenty of other accusers of other staff members/pastors/etc. etc. over the years.
Even if there were a 'hint' of others, SFL would be all over it like a bum on a cheap suit.
ABG would be touting it like it was the second coming of Billy Graham.

If you look up the Chicago magazine piece on JS from later that summer you will find quotes in it from a former poster here. I knew her well. She was once one of my busworkers. She counseled with him extensively in private regarding her marriage, and the wildly inappropriate conversation JS used in those counseling sessions was the reason they left the church and moved to a distant state - more than a year before JS was caught. What I am trying to say is that I do think others have come out, namely her. She told me, privately, some of the things he said to her in those counseling sessions and I cannot bring myself to even type them on an open forum.

I do not believe the situation with the teenage girl was an isolated event. And even if I'm wrong it was something he had been soliciting/seeking/reaching toward for some YEARS. He didn't fall. He jumped. Repeatedly.

I do remember that situation now, but was there actual a physical relationship with anyone?

Some people that I trust have mentioned two other situations with Jack

He spent a lot of time with the '12 senior class in fall of '11 and spring of '12 (flying to a youth rally in MI, meeting on senior trip, et) that he did not do with the other senior classes the previous 10 years.  It looks like it did not get very far (probably why it isn't known) and then the reason he is in jail came to his attention.

A physical relationship with a 60+ year old married woman from 2010 (I have mentioned this previously)  She would want to keep her name out of it for many reasons. (Bizarre would describe this situation)

Jack was a wolf on the hunt.  This is the man that FBC had as pastor - without a protest from Eddie, Terry, Cindy or the like.