Where is the 21st Century FBC?

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Smellin Coffee]Who is denying that abortion is NOT an atrocity? Human life is human life whether in racial form, gender form or fetus form. Neither one is any more worse than the other. The world then was as evil as it is today but just manifested itself differently and those "men of God" did nothing to stop the tide of evil (though they may have been sincerely trying).[/quote]

And even in some cases perpetuating the evil that was going on around them.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

As well:
Luke 19:10 (KJV)
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

John 3:3-21 (KJV)
3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Yep. And pay CLOSE attention to the last two verses in your quoted passage.  ;D

 

[Norefund]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Probably because it wasn't one of the sins he had to cover somebody for...

 

[Fresh Air]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Yes. An entire sermon entitled 'Who Slew All These?'. Of course, he spiritualized his text, but I didn't care about that back then. 

 

[Norefund]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Yes. An entire sermon entitled 'Who Slew All These?'. Of course, he spiritualized his text, but I didn't care about that back then. 

Would you mind expounding a little on the spiritualizing text part? I don't really know what that means.

 

[Bruh]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.

We don't even see any HA Ironside's, Bob Jones Sr's., John Rice's, Curtis Hutson's, J Vernon McGee's and a litany of others ... These were great men of God that were respected by most Fundamentalists of every stripe.  They were respected, loved, above reproach (as far as I know). 
Really and truly, there are few of that caliber any more.

No, not Rice and Hutson.  Rice did not believe in store house tithing and Hutson was a 1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks kind of a guy. So, many believe they were the began of the problems the Hyles side of IFB have today.

Those great men (McGee, Norris) led the charge of the original purpose of the fundamentalist movement; fighting against modernism. The IFB generation of Rice, Hyles Hutson, etc. led the charge of SBC churches out of the SBC and into independence. Those generations had single rally cries and single purposes in which to rally around. When this happens there will always be leaders. Those leaders happened to be the men you mentioned. This generation...has no single purpose to rally around. We are splintered, still harboring past spiritual hangups, and bitternesses, no longer having the traction to rally even if there would be a true reason too. Modernism and compromise is old hat. So what left is there to rally around? Those two issues are the nutshell of all the current issues.

This is the generation of the local preacher and the local church and local influence. The generation of individually practicing, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.", when the majority of your church doesn't.

Let's see, when the "Great Men" you refer to, as the country was different when they were a live.......O.k, the Bible was removed out of the public schools, abortion was legalized and the gay movement began in the streets.  All of the topics I listed started in the height of "their ministry's", you know the "Movers and Shakers" of the IFB, so say? 

Did the men listed do good things.....sure, but not any more IMO then the Pastors of "their day".  The men we are discussing had large crowds but so did the gay movement in the streets in "their day". 

What is going on in our society is only a continuation of what was started in "their day".  Is society worse today then when they were a live.....sure, duh, it only gets worse, that is in Scripture. 

When the men we speak of, came on "the scene" in "their day" society was much more evil, then 50 years prior. 

The way I see it is, some on here give them to much credit.   

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Yes. An entire sermon entitled 'Who Slew All These?'. Of course, he spiritualized his text, but I didn't care about that back then. 

Would you mind expounding a little on the spiritualizing text part? I don't really know what that means.

Taking a phrase from the passage of Scripture and running with it to fit an entirely different topic. I remember Hyles one time preaching on the parable where Jesus wrote in the sand. It was his speculation that he wrote "Where is the man?" in the sand as only the adulterous woman was presented to Him. Hyles then went on to ask "Where is the man that will stand for right? Where is the man that will stand for truth? Where is the man that will stand for..." etc.

IOW, using a phrase to springboard content not found in the text.

 

[Fresh Air]

Would you mind expounding a little on the spiritualizing text part? I don't really know what that means.

His main text was from II Kings 10:
8  And there came a messenger, and told him, saying, They have brought the heads of the king’s sons. And he said, Lay ye them in two heaps at the entering in of the gate until the morning.
9  And it came to pass in the morning, that he went out, and stood, and said to all the people, Ye be righteous: behold, I conspired against my master, and slew him: but who slew all these?

He equated these two piles of heads to two piles of bodies of those slain by abortionists, etc. in their industry of death. His title came directly from the text, 'Who Slew All These?' He spoke of the horror of the abortion holocaust, and of the punishment abortionists would directly face, and that America would indirectly face. It was, as I recall, very much of an Old Testament prophet kind of a sermon, dealing with the sins of our nation.

...the only problem is that the text he chose had nothing to do with abortion. Not even close.

 

[Norefund]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Probably because it wasn't one of the sins he had to cover somebody for...

Are you sure about that? Back in the Dave days there were plenty of rumors of abortions paid for by unknown funding sources.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone remember Jack Hyles ever preaching about abortion? I don't.

Probably because it wasn't one of the sins he had to cover somebody for...

Are you sure about that? Back in the Dave days there were plenty of rumors of abortions paid for by unknown funding sources.

Things that make you go Hmmmm.....

 

[North]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.

We don't even see any HA Ironside's, Bob Jones Sr's., John Rice's, Curtis Hutson's, J Vernon McGee's and a litany of others ... These were great men of God that were respected by most Fundamentalists of every stripe.  They were respected, loved, above reproach (as far as I know). 
Really and truly, there are few of that caliber any more.

No, not Rice and Hutson.  Rice did not believe in store house tithing and Hutson was a 1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks kind of a guy. So, many believe they were the began of the problems the Hyles side of IFB have today.

Those great men (McGee, Norris) led the charge of the original purpose of the fundamentalist movement; fighting against modernism. The IFB generation of Rice, Hyles Hutson, etc. led the charge of SBC churches out of the SBC and into independence. Those generations had single rally cries and single purposes in which to rally around. When this happens there will always be leaders. Those leaders happened to be the men you mentioned. This generation...has no single purpose to rally around. We are splintered, still harboring past spiritual hangups, and bitternesses, no longer having the traction to rally even if there would be a true reason too. Modernism and compromise is old hat. So what left is there to rally around? Those two issues are the nutshell of all the current issues.

This is the generation of the local preacher and the local church and local influence. The generation of individually practicing, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.", when the majority of your church doesn't.

Let's see, when the "Great Men" you refer to, as the country was different when they were a live.......O.k, the Bible was removed out of the public schools, abortion was legalized and the gay movement began in the streets.  All of the topics I listed started in the height of "their ministry's", you know the "Movers and Shakers" of the IFB, so say? 

Did the men listed do good things.....sure, but not any more IMO then the Pastors of "their day".  The men we are discussing had large crowds but so did the gay movement in the streets in "their day". 

What is going on in our society is only a continuation of what was started in "their day".  Is society worse today then when they were a live.....sure, duh, it only gets worse, that is in Scripture. 

When the men we speak of, came on "the scene" in "their day" society was much more evil, then 50 years prior. 

The way I see it is, some on here give them to much credit. 

Whether they were great is up to the Lord bruh. I called them great because the poster I was responding to did.
Yes, bruh when they were alive wickedness was alive and well.
But, I would argue that American society was just as immoral in the 1920's if not more than in the 60's and 70's. What has changed in society is the toleration of open sin.

I would also ask you to expand your mental borders. American society is not God's "Immorality Yard stick" to compare against the world and decide its time to come back. The fight against modernism was global, fundamentalism was global.

Furthermore, American society has always been Christianity's antagonist. Christians in every American generation have had to deal with naysayers, and mockers, and workplace discrimination, the awkwardness of carrying a Bible in public, the persecution of groups of filthy sinners who hid behind laws favoring them,  media bias, unfair laws, etc. Those great men did not save the World from themselves, they helped lead their movements.

 

[Undertaker]

I don't think big church's is the answer.  The small church, with the country preacher, who doesn't have a God complex is the answer.  THey never built mega church's in the church model.  Once a church started to grow, and members were trained, they started new church's.