Where is the 21st Century FBC?

[prophet]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.


And no prophet, I don't see stars. Unlike many, that is a personal issue I never had to overcome due to my lack of IFB exposure. Beam in the eye my brother...beam in the eye.

You used the adjective "great" in the OP, not me. 
Were you "just saying that" insincerely, to bait the starry eyed zealots-without-knowledge?
If, so, then don't be defensive, you look as guilty as a raccoon.


Anishinaabe

 

[prophet]

I started this thread because a friend brought up the subject of last century's "great" IFB preachers/churches and I asked him, "what about this century?"
He couldn't give me a single name.

John 12:21 -- Sir, we would see Jesus.

Yes.

Anishinaabe

 

[16KJV11]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.

We don't even see any HA Ironside's, Bob Jones Sr's., John Rice's, Curtis Hutson's, J Vernon McGee's and a litany of others ... These were great men of God that were respected by most Fundamentalists of every stripe.  They were respected, loved, above reproach (as far as I know). 
Really and truly, there are few of that caliber any more.

I do not believe in a Baptist Pope, nor do I believe that there is only one man who influences a generation, but there were a host of men in ages past who made an impact on a national/international level.
Men like Jonathan Edwards, Shubal Stearns, Obadiah Holmes, RA Torrey, John and Charles Wesley, Billy Sunday,  J Frank Norris, DL Moody, Charles Spurgeon, MR DeHaan, Theodore Epp, Oliver B. Green, G Campbell Morgan, Adrian Rogers, Lee Roberson, Gypsy Smith, Robert Murray McCheyne, Tom Malone, George Whitfield, David Brainerd, and yes, Jack Hyles (Bro. Hyles has had a wonderful influence on me and upon a multitude of others, I'm not getting in an argument about him) and etc., etc., etc.
These men pointed millions TO JESUS CHRIST, to serve Him in a more dedicated and knowledgeable manner, and inspired and continue to inspire preachers like me.
Men who preached the old time Gospel and had the ear and respect of millions.
I just don't see men like this any more.
I am one of those preachers who does practically everything in the church as mentioned before, but my ministry is fairly localized.
I am not minimizing what I do, for it is one soul winner who won me to Christ and every soul I see saved is fruit added to his account.
However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.
Christianity and morality were at the forefront, not a perfect country, but a good and decent country over all.
Now, it seems as Christianity is marginalized and old fashioned Bible preaching and teaching is marginalized as well.
It seems as if Christianity has become watered down and less and less relevant. 
There is little difference between Christians and the world.
We're becoming more and more like Europe every day. (in deadness and the relevancy of God in our lives)
Oh, for the old paths.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

 

[16KJV11]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

 

[rsc2a]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

I was fixing to type the same thing.

 

[rsc2a]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

I agree.

Actually, I think the difference today than yesteryear is the emergence of social media. More voices tend to drown out the loud voices.

 

[Bruh]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.

We don't even see any HA Ironside's, Bob Jones Sr's., John Rice's, Curtis Hutson's, J Vernon McGee's and a litany of others ... These were great men of God that were respected by most Fundamentalists of every stripe.  They were respected, loved, above reproach (as far as I know). 
Really and truly, there are few of that caliber any more.

No, not Rice and Hutson.  Rice did not believe in store house tithing and Hutson was a 1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks kind of a guy. So, many believe they were the began of the problems the Hyles side of IFB have today. 

 

[16KJV11]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

One big blot that many of the afore mentioned didn't have to deal with:  56 million murdered babies.

 

[rsc2a]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

One big blot that many of the afore mentioned didn't have to deal with:  56 million murdered babies.

But they did have to deal with the dehumanization of entire people groups on the basis of appearance.

 

[North]

Well, I got the anti IFB crowd to give their comments. Since those who still hold to the IFB culture and philosophies of last century have not answered, my answer would be that there are none. None according to the standards of last century's IFB culture; zeal, large church numbers etc. Whether that was philosophy was wrong was not the point. The point was is there a church with a pastor that fits the mold that was exalted and promoted last century.

We don't even see any HA Ironside's, Bob Jones Sr's., John Rice's, Curtis Hutson's, J Vernon McGee's and a litany of others ... These were great men of God that were respected by most Fundamentalists of every stripe.  They were respected, loved, above reproach (as far as I know). 
Really and truly, there are few of that caliber any more.

No, not Rice and Hutson.  Rice did not believe in store house tithing and Hutson was a 1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks kind of a guy. So, many believe they were the began of the problems the Hyles side of IFB have today.

Those great men (McGee, Norris) led the charge of the original purpose of the fundamentalist movement; fighting against modernism. The IFB generation of Rice, Hyles Hutson, etc. led the charge of SBC churches out of the SBC and into independence. Those generations had single rally cries and single purposes in which to rally around. When this happens there will always be leaders. Those leaders happened to be the men you mentioned. This generation...has no single purpose to rally around. We are splintered, still harboring past spiritual hangups, and bitternesses, no longer having the traction to rally even if there would be a true reason too. Modernism and compromise is old hat. So what left is there to rally around? Those two issues are the nutshell of all the current issues.

This is the generation of the local preacher and the local church and local influence. The generation of individually practicing, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.", when the majority of your church doesn't.

 

[Bravo]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

But is it because the people got worse or because the "men of God" got worse? I'm not referring to you brother. Look at the scandals over our lifetimes. One person commented when the Schaap stuff came to light that it hurt our cause,... It isn't when it came to light but rather when he DID the things he did that it hurt our cause.

 

[BALAAM]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

But is it because the people got worse or because the "men of God" got worse? I'm not referring to you brother. Look at the scandals over our lifetimes. One person commented when the Schaap stuff came to light that it hurt our cause,... It isn't when it came to light but rather when he DID the things he did that it hurt our cause.

I agree with this totally. While still preaching "Be Ye Holy for I am Holy" in reality they are saying "Appear to be Holy by doing the following".

 

[Smellin Coffee]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

But is it because the people got worse or because the "men of God" got worse? I'm not referring to you brother. Look at the scandals over our lifetimes. One person commented when the Schaap stuff came to light that it hurt our cause,... It isn't when it came to light but rather when he DID the things he did that it hurt our cause.

And why wouldn't the non-religious be concerned? History has given us incredible atrocities against humanity in the name of moralism and religious beliefs. Crusades. Salem Witch Trials. Holocaust. 9/11. etc.

With religion, there is inherent power. Why do you think there even is a homosexual agenda? They believe they are standing up against a greater power (oppression of thier freedom as they see it) which is rooted in religion. Like Christians "live in fear" that homosexuality will become commonplace in our society, I imagine that homosexuals "live in fear" of religious bigotry whether it be from Evangelicals, Catholics and the real threat to their physical lives, some Muslim factions.

Religious behaviors, even if correct in doctrine, can bring about literal atrocities against groups that don't comply. History has proven that out.

 

[16KJV11]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

But is it because the people got worse or because the "men of God" got worse? I'm not referring to you brother. Look at the scandals over our lifetimes. One person commented when the Schaap stuff came to light that it hurt our cause,... It isn't when it came to light but rather when he DID the things he did that it hurt our cause.

I agree with this totally. While still preaching "Be Ye Holy for I am Holy" in reality they are saying "Appear to be Holy by doing the following".

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but let's not forget the liberal pastors and denominations that have kicked the truth out the door in favor of catechism's, the social gospel and political correctness.  There used to be a time when many denominations preached the truth.
Not so much any more.
My wife's grandaddy, an old time holiness saint of God used to condemn the preachers of America for its demise.  As a young preacher boy, I was a bit offended at his remarks, but as I have grown older, I see much veracity in what he said.

 

[16KJV11]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

One big blot that many of the afore mentioned didn't have to deal with:  56 million murdered babies.

But they did have to deal with the dehumanization of entire people groups on the basis of appearance.

I know that God is not pleased with the dehumanization of entire people groups on the basis of appearance, but I know that God hates the murder and shedding of innocent blood.
I posted this on facebook:

"I was thinking about the state of our nation.
Since Roe Vs. Wade was enacted and abortions became the norm in this country, some 52 million innocent babies have been sent into eternity. Our country has tanked morally over the last 40 years to unprecedented lows.
Honestly, I don't see a country today that I grew up in.
I can't help but understand that the judgment of God is upon our nation.
During the times of the Judges, God's people lusted after nations that surrounded them and they got caught up in and participated in all of their evil deeds.
The Psalmist recounted some of their wicked doings:

Psalm 106:36-41 (KJV)
36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. 37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, 38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. 39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. 40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. 41 And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them.

Can anyone NOT see a direct correlation between the sins of Israel and the sins of America?
Can God wink at the genocide of some 56 million innocent human beings?

We hiss and despise men like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot.
But the sins of these despots pale in comparison to mothers aborting their babies, governments that allow this evil doctrine to proceed, and we Christians who sit idly by while such massacres are perpetrated."

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but let's not forget the liberal pastors and denominations that have kicked the truth out the door in favor of catechism's, the social gospel and political correctness.  There used to be a time when many denominations preached the truth.

Perhaps their definition of "the truth" was not what Jesus had in mind for His gospel. Why did Jesus come?

16 And he (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
    and recovering of sight to the blind,
    to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”

20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

 

And Jesus confirmed with John the Baptist He preached the true gospel:

2 Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3 and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6 And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”

 

[16KJV11]

As well:
Luke 19:10 (KJV)
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

John 3:3-21 (KJV)
3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

However, when these men were alive, it seemed our country was a different place.


Yep. The moral viewpoint was pro-slavery or racial prejudice, depending on their time in history.

Different - yes. More moral - no.

You could argue that to an extent, but though there be racial tolerance somewhat in our country today, the blatant, in your face hedonism, complete disregard for God in the eyes of many (a no fear of judgment and accountability) has eclipsed the progress that has been made in other areas.

People were just as hedonistically minded then as they are today. The only difference is one of opportunity, not disposition. Look at some of the excesses of the time. Times bygone aren't referred to as the Gilded Age without reason.

One big blot that many of the afore mentioned didn't have to deal with:  56 million murdered babies.

But they did have to deal with the dehumanization of entire people groups on the basis of appearance.

I know that God is not pleased with the dehumanization of entire people groups on the basis of appearance, but I know that God hates the murder and shedding of innocent blood.
I posted this on facebook:

"I was thinking about the state of our nation.
Since Roe Vs. Wade was enacted and abortions became the norm in this country, some 52 million innocent babies have been sent into eternity. Our country has tanked morally over the last 40 years to unprecedented lows.
Honestly, I don't see a country today that I grew up in.
I can't help but understand that the judgment of God is upon our nation.
During the times of the Judges, God's people lusted after nations that surrounded them and they got caught up in and participated in all of their evil deeds.
The Psalmist recounted some of their wicked doings:

Psalm 106:36-41 (KJV)
36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. 37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, 38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. 39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. 40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. 41 And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them.

Can anyone NOT see a direct correlation between the sins of Israel and the sins of America?
Can God wink at the genocide of some 56 million innocent human beings?

We hiss and despise men like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot.
But the sins of these despots pale in comparison to mothers aborting their babies, governments that allow this evil doctrine to proceed, and we Christians who sit idly by while such massacres are perpetrated."

Who is denying that abortion is NOT an atrocity? Human life is human life whether in racial form, gender form or fetus form. Neither one is any more worse than the other. The world then was as evil as it is today but just manifested itself differently and those "men of God" did nothing to stop the tide of evil (though they may have been sincerely trying).