What is modest?

[Smellin Coffee]

As a woman I do dread summer to see the skanky clad women and girls clothing.  It is really repulsing.  I do not allow my daughter to wear these type of clothing.  The sad thing is it's coming to churches too.  Parents are allowing their daughters wear these over board very questionable clothing to church.  Kids coming off the buses are wearing them and seeing the kids walk around the mall in them and seeing the stores selling them.  It just repulses me. 

I don't allow my daughters to dress provocatively either, though it really hasn't been a battle with them to do so. I just teach my kids to dress not to cause attention or distraction, wherever they are as long as it is appropriate for the occasion.

Smellin, I notice you say, "appropriate for the occasion".  If the occasion was a female volleyball game would you feel comfortable with your daughters wearing the outfits that they wear today?

Regular gym volleyball, yes. Beach volleyball, no.

I am seeking to get inside Smellin's mind.....be worried, be very worried! 

So you are ok with your daughter playing volleyball in the skin tight short shorts and skin tight tops while boys watch?

In that particular venue, no issue with me. 

 

[RAIDER]

As a woman I do dread summer to see the skanky clad women and girls clothing.  It is really repulsing.  I do not allow my daughter to wear these type of clothing.  The sad thing is it's coming to churches too.  Parents are allowing their daughters wear these over board very questionable clothing to church.  Kids coming off the buses are wearing them and seeing the kids walk around the mall in them and seeing the stores selling them.  It just repulses me. 

I don't allow my daughters to dress provocatively either, though it really hasn't been a battle with them to do so. I just teach my kids to dress not to cause attention or distraction, wherever they are as long as it is appropriate for the occasion.

Smellin, I notice you say, "appropriate for the occasion".  If the occasion was a female volleyball game would you feel comfortable with your daughters wearing the outfits that they wear today?

Regular gym volleyball, yes. Beach volleyball, no.

I am seeking to get inside Smellin's mind.....be worried, be very worried! 

So you are ok with your daughter playing volleyball in the skin tight short shorts and skin tight tops while boys watch?

In that particular venue, no issue with me.

On this one, my HB friend, I am having trouble following you.  On one hand you say, "I don't allow my daughters to dress provocatively".  On the other hand you say you would have not problem with them playing volleyball in skin tight shorts and tops while boys watch.  Please school me.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

As a woman I do dread summer to see the skanky clad women and girls clothing.  It is really repulsing.  I do not allow my daughter to wear these type of clothing.  The sad thing is it's coming to churches too.  Parents are allowing their daughters wear these over board very questionable clothing to church.  Kids coming off the buses are wearing them and seeing the kids walk around the mall in them and seeing the stores selling them.  It just repulses me. 

I don't allow my daughters to dress provocatively either, though it really hasn't been a battle with them to do so. I just teach my kids to dress not to cause attention or distraction, wherever they are as long as it is appropriate for the occasion.

Smellin, I notice you say, "appropriate for the occasion".  If the occasion was a female volleyball game would you feel comfortable with your daughters wearing the outfits that they wear today?

Regular gym volleyball, yes. Beach volleyball, no.

I am seeking to get inside Smellin's mind.....be worried, be very worried! 

So you are ok with your daughter playing volleyball in the skin tight short shorts and skin tight tops while boys watch?

In that particular venue, no issue with me.

On this one, my HB friend, I am having trouble following you.  On one hand you say, "I don't allow my daughters to dress provocatively".  On the other hand you say you would have not problem with them playing volleyball in skin tight shorts and tops while boys watch.  Please school me.

There is no particular guiding principle. The volleyball uniform is a uniform, not singling out an individual to bring attention when amongst the participants. In my opinion (and just my opinion), I feel that the beach volleyball stuff does reveal too much, even in the context.

I wouldn't want my daughters to be wearing stuff like that out to the mall but in the context of a volleyball game, no problem with me. Any more than a one-piece bathing suit. I wouldn't let the girls wear that to the mall either but I have no problems if they are at the pool.

People are going to look at what they are going to look. Volleyball is not there for the purpose of making sex symbols of girls. The girls are not dressing that way to deliberately draw eyes to their bodies. My idea of dressing in a provocative manner would be the deliberate attempt to draw attention to one's self. In fact, a woman can be provocative in (what you might consider) a modest formal evening dress.

If guys want to go watch girls' sports to look at girls' bodies, then they have issues. If they are going to watch friends or relatives to support them, then the dress wouldn't matter to them as it would be uniform. Why in the world would 14-year old girls dress in such a way as to try to turn on 40-year old men (fathers of the participants)? The logic behind that is just bizarre to me.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Smellin Coffee]The logic behind that is just bizarre to me.[/quote]

Two words: toe cleavage.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

[quote author=Smellin Coffee]The logic behind that is just bizarre to me.

Two words: toe cleavage.
[/quote]

Point made.

 

[RAIDER]

If guys want to go watch girls' sports to look at girls' bodies, then they have issues. 

Thanks for the clarification.  You and I don't agree on this one, but hey, you're a filthy HBer and I'm a stinkin' Hacker!

One reason I asked you about volleyball was because of a recent conversation at my place of business.  An employee was mentioning that his freshman son has had very little interest in sports.  He is more of a hunter/fisher type of kid.  All of a sudden he started going to the girl's volleyball games.  His dad commented that the reason the kid was going was to check out the girls on the team.

Now, with that being said, I don't think this freshman kid has issues because he wants to "check out" the girls.  Even though they are playing a sport, they are dressing in a provocative way.   

 

[Smellin Coffee]

If guys want to go watch girls' sports to look at girls' bodies, then they have issues. 

Thanks for the clarification.  You and I don't agree on this one, but hey, you're a filthy HBer and I'm a stinkin' Hacker!

One reason I asked you about volleyball was because of a recent conversation at my place of business.  An employee was mentioning that his freshman son has had very little interest in sports.  He is more of a hunter/fisher type of kid.  All of a sudden he started going to the girl's volleyball games.  His dad commented that the reason the kid was going was to check out the girls on the team.

Now, with that being said, I don't think this freshman kid has issues because he wants to "check out" the girls.  Even though they are playing a sport, they are dressing in a provocative way. 

And there will always be people like that boy but he is responsible for his own mind. And if it violates your conscience to have your daughters dress that way, then by all means, don't violate your conscience.

I'm an HB punk. Porn if wanted can be found just about anywhere. There was quite a bit of it in the halls/locker rooms of HB before the Internet. Again, my opinion but another person's lust problem is not the concern of myself nor my daughter if she is dressing in conjuction of her environment and not for the purpose of flaunting her body. To me, girls volleyball is not "live porn" and if it is for someone, he shouldn't view it.

I know we are going to disagree which is fine. I appreciate civil discussions!

 

[RAIDER]

If guys want to go watch girls' sports to look at girls' bodies, then they have issues. 

Thanks for the clarification.  You and I don't agree on this one, but hey, you're a filthy HBer and I'm a stinkin' Hacker!

One reason I asked you about volleyball was because of a recent conversation at my place of business.  An employee was mentioning that his freshman son has had very little interest in sports.  He is more of a hunter/fisher type of kid.  All of a sudden he started going to the girl's volleyball games.  His dad commented that the reason the kid was going was to check out the girls on the team.

Now, with that being said, I don't think this freshman kid has issues because he wants to "check out" the girls.  Even though they are playing a sport, they are dressing in a provocative way. 

And there will always be people like that boy but he is responsible for his own mind. And if it violates your conscience to have your daughters dress that way, then by all means, don't violate your conscience.

I'm an HB punk. Porn if wanted can be found just about anywhere. There was quite a bit of it in the halls/locker rooms of HB before the Internet. Again, my opinion but another person's lust problem is not the concern of myself nor my daughter if she is dressing in conjuction of her environment and not for the purpose of flaunting her body. To me, girls volleyball is not "live porn" and if it is for someone, he shouldn't view it.

I know we are going to disagree which is fine. I appreciate civil discussions!

And that's the only kind you and I have ever had!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

One more thought:

Why are we worried about structuring our lives around what others might be thinking? If it is within the conduct of the appropriate social convention, whether that be a church, formal restaurant, McDonalds, a Little League baseball game, etc. and we are not dressing in attempt to draw the wrong kind of attention, it shouldn't bother me.

FYI, purposely dressing provocatively on the part of a young lady does structure one's life around what others might be thinking so in essence, whether we purposely dress too conservatively or too provocatively for the given situation in an effort to control the thoughts of others, IMHO is immodest.

 

[RAIDER]

And there will always be people like that boy but he is responsible for his own mind. And if it violates your conscience to have your daughters dress that way, then by all means, don't violate your conscience.

I'm an HB punk. Porn if wanted can be found just about anywhere. There was quite a bit of it in the halls/locker rooms of HB before the Internet. Again, my opinion but another person's lust problem is not the concern of myself nor my daughter if she is dressing in conjuction of her environment and not for the purpose of flaunting her body. To me, girls volleyball is not "live porn" and if it is for someone, he shouldn't view it.

I know we are going to disagree which is fine. I appreciate civil discussions!

I realize that "the boy is responsible for his own mind".  What I am saying is that a freshman boy is not a dirty pervert because his eyes are drawn to certain parts of the female anatomy.  He needs to battle this.  On the other hand, for a gal to put on the attire about which we have been posting is placing excessive temptation in front of the boy.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

And there will always be people like that boy but he is responsible for his own mind. And if it violates your conscience to have your daughters dress that way, then by all means, don't violate your conscience.

I'm an HB punk. Porn if wanted can be found just about anywhere. There was quite a bit of it in the halls/locker rooms of HB before the Internet. Again, my opinion but another person's lust problem is not the concern of myself nor my daughter if she is dressing in conjuction of her environment and not for the purpose of flaunting her body. To me, girls volleyball is not "live porn" and if it is for someone, he shouldn't view it.

I know we are going to disagree which is fine. I appreciate civil discussions!

I realize that "the boy is responsible for his own mind".  What I am saying is that a freshman boy is not a dirty pervert because his eyes are drawn to certain parts of the female anatomy.  He needs to battle this.  On the other hand, for a gal to put on the attire about which we have been posting is placing excessive temptation in front of the boy.

But if the boy is going to the game for that specific purpose when that kind of "show" is not the purpose of the event, well, that kinda changes the dynamic a little. He is then pursuing his own lusts regardless of the attire of the participants. I've told my boys, "The first look is natural. The second leads to sin."

 

[RAIDER]

But if the boy is going to the game for that specific purpose when that kind of "show" is not the purpose of the event, well, that kinda changes the dynamic a little. He is then pursuing his own lusts regardless of the attire of the participants. I've told my boys, "The first look is natural. The second leads to sin."

Let me play HBer's advocate.  Let's say that a boy goes to the game with the full intention of watching the game.  While he is watching the game a ball rolls past where he is sitting.  A gal bends down to pick up the ball.  What is this boy suppose to do?  You would say he should turn his head.  How many times during a volleyball game will he find himself in a similar situation?

Think about unsaved high school boys.  Do you think they turn their heads?  Do you think they have a great conviction about their thought life? 

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Like I once heard a preacher say, Nudity is not vulgar if it's art is like saying water is not wet if it's not in a  lake." Or something like that. That should settle it all!

 

[brainisengaged]

But if the boy is going to the game for that specific purpose  when that kind of "show" is not the purpose of the event, well, that kinda changes the dynamic a little. He is then pursuing his own lusts regardless of the attire of the participants. I've told my boys, "The first look is natural. The second leads to sin."

Well said. Why does the entire responsibility have to be the girl's? When my husband checked in on this thread earlier, at some point, he said men's football should also, then, be looked at as a serious problem. Those tight, tight football pants leave little to the imagination and we girls should NOT have to be exposed to that.

I know, I know. Men are visually stimulated, women are not. Horse hockey! Men have just been conditioned into thinking they have no control over themselves.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I have a real problem with the singlet wrestling outfits. They're gross.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I have a real problem with the singlet wrestling outfits. They're gross.

Funny, when I was lying in bed last night, I had the exact same thought. Those who preach against girls wearing volleyball uniforms while playing the sport should also preach against those wrestlers in their tights, boxers who go shirtless, etc.

In essence, men have the power of the pulpit and unwittingly use it unfairly to single out women when it comes to things like this.

 

[RAIDER]

Well said. Why does the entire responsibility have to be the girl's? When my husband checked in on this thread earlier, at some point, he said men's football should also, then, be looked at as a serious problem. Those tight, tight football pants leave little to the imagination and we girls should NOT have to be exposed to that.

I know, I know. Men are visually stimulated, women are not. Horse hockey! Men have just been conditioned into thinking they have no control over themselves.

No one said that the entire responsibility has to be the girls.  A boy should think pure thoughts.  A boy should avoid looking.  It is a two-sided coin.  The girl DOES have responsibility also.  I do not believe that a girl being scantily dressed in public is fulfilling her responsibility. 

Once again, do you think unsaved high school boys think it is wrong to look and lust?  And like it or not, males are visually stimulated.  I believe each male, with the help of the Holy Spirit, has the ability to control themselves.

I will agree with you on the football pants.  While I do not think it has the same effect on the average gal as the opposite would on a guy, I have heard gals make comments.

 

 

[16KJV11]

Just my personal experience:
The time I spent at HAC was about the easiest time (spiritually speaking) that I ever had to deal with as far as battling the flesh.
I realize that there were women who wore their dresses tighter than they should have, but that was the exception and not the rule.
I have been driving a school bus for the last 7 years and it is a battle every day to keep my eyes & heart focused where they should be.
I drive several days a week for an evangelical Christian school and a Catholic school.  The girls don't dress a whole lot differently than the public school girls.
In fact, the Catholic school girls wear their 'skirts' about half way up their thighs.
Modesty seems to be the last thing on the minds of many Christian women these days.
How could a Christian woman who wears tight jeans, spandex, a mini skirt or skin tight tops that reveal cleavage think that she is not casting a stumbling block before men?
Men are driven by sight, that's a fact.
And women's clothier's sell clothing to women to attract to that sense of sight and incite lust.
I heard an ad on the radio for a type of jeans that said:
"Women, you need to buy these jeans so that you can 'strut your stuff'."
I realize that we have to control our minds, but the coin has two sides to it.
There is a balance that lies somewhere between a burlap sack and skin tight leave nothing to the imagination dress (or undress) that should be striven for.

 

[16KJV11]

But if the boy is going to the game for that specific purpose  when that kind of "show" is not the purpose of the event, well, that kinda changes the dynamic a little. He is then pursuing his own lusts regardless of the attire of the participants. I've told my boys, "The first look is natural. The second leads to sin."

Well said. Why does the entire responsibility have to be the girl's? When my husband checked in on this thread earlier, at some point, he said men's football should also, then, be looked at as a serious problem. Those tight, tight football pants leave little to the imagination and we girls should NOT have to be exposed to that.

I know, I know. Men are visually stimulated, women are not. Horse hockey! Men have just been conditioned into thinking they have no control over themselves.

You are right:
Men need to be careful in the way they dress as not to be a stumbling block before the ladies.
Back in the days when I was more hunk than chunk (in high school as a weight lifter and long distance runner), a looooong time ago, I experienced that first hand!  8)
Waiting and ducking to avoid sarcastic and caustic remarks...

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Now that the questions have subsided a bit, here is a doozy for any HACker.

Was Jack Hyles guilty of immodesty when he would roll up his sleeve and flex his muscles in front of the Ladies' meetings in an effort to get a response from them? Was their attention not being drawn to a part of his body for the purpose of admiration?

Discuss.

;D