What I saw in church this week..............
- Thread starter fishinnut
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Anyone seen anything interesting at your church????????
Was that an expensive program that you bought for reading everything online with Braille?Twisted said:
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RAIDER said:
If one says that:
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
Mal 3:14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
Mal 3:15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
The Book of Remembrance
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
applies to Christians today than then yes we should be dancing in our worship and praise services.
RAIDER said:
I don't care whether people dance or not when they worship but at this point it sounds like you are grasping at straws to explain away this verse.
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RUNNING FROM THE BAPTIST NAME
This is America, so anyone has the right to be called by any name they choose, but to remain Baptist while refusing to be CALLED Baptist is nothing short of doing the Lord?s work deceitfully, a forbidden practice in the Bible (Jer. 48:10). Yet, more and more we are seeing Southern Baptist churches dropping the Baptist name in order to gain members. Yet, these churches are permitted to remain in the Southern Baptist Convention.
The pastor of one such church told a newspaper, "Today, people pick a church not because of its theology or because they were reared in a particular tradition. They pick a church where they feel comfortable. Instead of asking about doctrine, they ask: Is it friendly? Is the worship exciting? Are there programs for the kids?? In other words, the man is saying that churches ought to continually compromise their convictions in order to bring in the numbers. Thankfully, Paul had a different outlook (I Cor. 15:58).
To illustrate the weakness of the above statement, let?s break it down into sections and give the appropriate Scripture quotations:
(1) Today, people pick a church not because of its theology. . . (knowledge of God). ?Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.? (Hosea 4:1)
(2) . . . or because they were reared in a particular tradition. ?Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.? (II Ths. 2:15)
(3) They pick a church where they feel comfortable. ?And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.? (Luke 9:23)
(4) Instead of asking about doctrine, they ask: Is it friendly? ?For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine . . .? (II Tim. 4:3)
(5) Is the worship exciting? ?. . . but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.? (II Tim. 4:3)
(6) Are there programs for the kids? ?And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.? (Eph. 6:4; it is the primary responsibility of the PARENTS, mainly the fathers, to see to it that children receive proper instruction in the home, rather than lay this burden at the feet of the church. I am not condemning Sunday schools, but for one to choose a church on the basis of ?programs for the kids? is unscriptural. The nature of the ?programs? is another issue altogether.)
Everything this pastor said was contrary to the word of God?100% of it. That?s how to build big churches these days: go against the Bible every chance you get in order to draw the crowds. After all, the members of these churches are so weak spiritually that they?ll never know the difference. Of course, when confronted with such doctrinal issues, the Bible-believer is branded as being ?mean-spirited? (no matter how gracefully and kindly he addresses the issue) while the Laodicean compromiser is held up as a great role model for ?sharing the love of Christ.? Most of them have never paid any attention to John 14:23, and it wouldn?t change them if they did.
One can find the Southern Baptist Convention and Baptist associations all across America listing churches without Baptist names. Such names as Gracepoint Church, Dayspring Church, and numerous Community churches can be found on the Southern Baptist Convention web site, yet these churches avoid the Baptist name in their local communities. This is nothing less than outright deceit.
Not to be outdone by the flip/flop Laodicean churches, in January 1999, Baptist Book Stores, owned by the apostate Southern Baptist Convention, changed its name to Lifeway Christian Stores. It is still owned by the Convention.
Now, please don?t misunderstand our point. This is America, and anyone can worship in anyway they choose, and they can wear any name they choose. However, Christians are supposed to be a HOLY and HONEST people! Playing deceitful little games with church names is neither holy nor honest. If a church doesn?t like the Baptist name, then that church ought to leave the Southern BAPTIST Convention. If it doesn?t desire to leave, then the leadership in the Convention should force it to leave. If the Convention is going to tolerate churches dropping the Baptist name, then it too should drop the Baptist name. Whatever they do, they should STOP LYING to people about who they are and what they believe.
After all, some of us REAL Baptists know a thing or two about Baptist history, and we?re not the least bit ashamed of the name. We know what the Roman Catholics did to our ancestors throughout Europe who refused to sprinkle babies and join the state church. We know who shed the first Baptist blood in America, and we know who fought harder than anyone to win the Bill of Rights. Some of us weren?t raised up on Bill Gaither videos and Upward Basketball, and we wouldn?t pay ten cents for every Crosswinds Community Clubhouse in the country. If you're a real Baptist, then SAY it and wear the name with honor. If you're not, then stop the deceit and tell everyone what you are and what you believe. It's a free country, so call your church what you want, but STOP LYING. - James Melton
This is America, so anyone has the right to be called by any name they choose, but to remain Baptist while refusing to be CALLED Baptist is nothing short of doing the Lord?s work deceitfully, a forbidden practice in the Bible (Jer. 48:10). Yet, more and more we are seeing Southern Baptist churches dropping the Baptist name in order to gain members. Yet, these churches are permitted to remain in the Southern Baptist Convention.
The pastor of one such church told a newspaper, "Today, people pick a church not because of its theology or because they were reared in a particular tradition. They pick a church where they feel comfortable. Instead of asking about doctrine, they ask: Is it friendly? Is the worship exciting? Are there programs for the kids?? In other words, the man is saying that churches ought to continually compromise their convictions in order to bring in the numbers. Thankfully, Paul had a different outlook (I Cor. 15:58).
To illustrate the weakness of the above statement, let?s break it down into sections and give the appropriate Scripture quotations:
(1) Today, people pick a church not because of its theology. . . (knowledge of God). ?Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.? (Hosea 4:1)
(2) . . . or because they were reared in a particular tradition. ?Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.? (II Ths. 2:15)
(3) They pick a church where they feel comfortable. ?And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.? (Luke 9:23)
(4) Instead of asking about doctrine, they ask: Is it friendly? ?For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine . . .? (II Tim. 4:3)
(5) Is the worship exciting? ?. . . but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.? (II Tim. 4:3)
(6) Are there programs for the kids? ?And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.? (Eph. 6:4; it is the primary responsibility of the PARENTS, mainly the fathers, to see to it that children receive proper instruction in the home, rather than lay this burden at the feet of the church. I am not condemning Sunday schools, but for one to choose a church on the basis of ?programs for the kids? is unscriptural. The nature of the ?programs? is another issue altogether.)
Everything this pastor said was contrary to the word of God?100% of it. That?s how to build big churches these days: go against the Bible every chance you get in order to draw the crowds. After all, the members of these churches are so weak spiritually that they?ll never know the difference. Of course, when confronted with such doctrinal issues, the Bible-believer is branded as being ?mean-spirited? (no matter how gracefully and kindly he addresses the issue) while the Laodicean compromiser is held up as a great role model for ?sharing the love of Christ.? Most of them have never paid any attention to John 14:23, and it wouldn?t change them if they did.
One can find the Southern Baptist Convention and Baptist associations all across America listing churches without Baptist names. Such names as Gracepoint Church, Dayspring Church, and numerous Community churches can be found on the Southern Baptist Convention web site, yet these churches avoid the Baptist name in their local communities. This is nothing less than outright deceit.
Not to be outdone by the flip/flop Laodicean churches, in January 1999, Baptist Book Stores, owned by the apostate Southern Baptist Convention, changed its name to Lifeway Christian Stores. It is still owned by the Convention.
Now, please don?t misunderstand our point. This is America, and anyone can worship in anyway they choose, and they can wear any name they choose. However, Christians are supposed to be a HOLY and HONEST people! Playing deceitful little games with church names is neither holy nor honest. If a church doesn?t like the Baptist name, then that church ought to leave the Southern BAPTIST Convention. If it doesn?t desire to leave, then the leadership in the Convention should force it to leave. If the Convention is going to tolerate churches dropping the Baptist name, then it too should drop the Baptist name. Whatever they do, they should STOP LYING to people about who they are and what they believe.
After all, some of us REAL Baptists know a thing or two about Baptist history, and we?re not the least bit ashamed of the name. We know what the Roman Catholics did to our ancestors throughout Europe who refused to sprinkle babies and join the state church. We know who shed the first Baptist blood in America, and we know who fought harder than anyone to win the Bill of Rights. Some of us weren?t raised up on Bill Gaither videos and Upward Basketball, and we wouldn?t pay ten cents for every Crosswinds Community Clubhouse in the country. If you're a real Baptist, then SAY it and wear the name with honor. If you're not, then stop the deceit and tell everyone what you are and what you believe. It's a free country, so call your church what you want, but STOP LYING. - James Melton
Growth within denominations and movements is often enabled through changes in methods.
We saw this in the last century and we are seeing it today. As a Conservative Fundamental Baptist, I am completely against doctrinal change but I realize Baptist who refuse to adjust their methods will never see significant growth.
Baptists changed a number of methods from the 1880 to the 1980?s and saw explosive growth last century.
Some of the new methods include:
? Door to door evangelism.
? Age specific Sunday Schools
? Busing of children and bus routes
? Use of programs and promotions
? Organized youth groups and paid youth pastors
? k ? 12 Christian schools
? Movement away from associations and splintering of existing associations
? Creation of the fundamentalist movement
? Renewed focus on outward standards
We saw this in the last century and we are seeing it today. As a Conservative Fundamental Baptist, I am completely against doctrinal change but I realize Baptist who refuse to adjust their methods will never see significant growth.
Baptists changed a number of methods from the 1880 to the 1980?s and saw explosive growth last century.
Some of the new methods include:
? Door to door evangelism.
? Age specific Sunday Schools
? Busing of children and bus routes
? Use of programs and promotions
? Organized youth groups and paid youth pastors
? k ? 12 Christian schools
? Movement away from associations and splintering of existing associations
? Creation of the fundamentalist movement
? Renewed focus on outward standards
Earlier I quoted the wrong post with the following, my apologies.Twisted said:
All that.........because my church uses stage lights? :
Since this is part of Fighting Fundamental Forums.......
I see that your name must be James M elton or you are being less than honest by cutting & pasting selected parts of a copyrighted article (linked below) by him about honesty. Found in the section entitled "More and More Southern Baptists are Compromising the Baptist Name".
http://www.biblebaptistpublications.org/southernbaptists.html
I trust you are pastor Melton and if so, strangely I see no mention of HAC.
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fishinnut said:Earlier I quoted the wrong post with the following, my apologies.
All that.........because my church uses stage lights? :
Since this is part of Fighting Fundamental Forums.......
I see that your name must be James M elton or you are being less than honest by cutting & pasting selected parts of a copyrighted article (linked below) by him about honesty. Found in the section entitled "More and More Southern Baptists are Compromising the Baptist Name".
http://www.biblebaptistpublications.org/southernbaptists.html
I trust you are pastor Melton and if so, strangely I see no mention of HAC.
No, Jimmy was a fellow ward mate a year ago or so. No mention of HAC in your rock-n-roll pictures/posts either.
The article accomplished exactly what Melton wanted.
(and it has nothing to do with using lighting)
You should have given him credit then. Some people lose their jobs for plagiarism.Twisted said:fishinnut said:Earlier I quoted the wrong post with the following, my apologies.
All that.........because my church uses stage lights? :
Since this is part of Fighting Fundamental Forums.......
I see that your name must be James M elton or you are being less than honest by cutting & pasting selected parts of a copyrighted article (linked below) by him about honesty. Found in the section entitled "More and More Southern Baptists are Compromising the Baptist Name".
http://www.biblebaptistpublications.org/southernbaptists.html
I trust you are pastor Melton and if so, strangely I see no mention of HAC.
No, Jimmy was a fellow ward mate a year ago or so. No mention of HAC in your rock-n-roll pictures/posts either.
The article accomplished exactly what Melton wanted.
(and it has nothing to do with using lighting)
http://nooga.com/152010/resignation-of-tennessee-temple-president-rooted-in-past-plagiarism/
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fishinnut said:You should have given him credit then. Some people lose their jobs for plagiarism.Twisted said:fishinnut said:Earlier I quoted the wrong post with the following, my apologies.
All that.........because my church uses stage lights? :
Since this is part of Fighting Fundamental Forums.......
I see that your name must be James M elton or you are being less than honest by cutting & pasting selected parts of a copyrighted article (linked below) by him about honesty. Found in the section entitled "More and More Southern Baptists are Compromising the Baptist Name".
http://www.biblebaptistpublications.org/southernbaptists.html
I trust you are pastor Melton and if so, strangely I see no mention of HAC.
No, Jimmy was a fellow ward mate a year ago or so. No mention of HAC in your rock-n-roll pictures/posts either.
The article accomplished exactly what Melton wanted.
(and it has nothing to do with using lighting)
http://nooga.com/152010/resignation-of-tennessee-temple-president-rooted-in-past-plagiarism/
Fixed. Don't want to lose my place in the med line.
16KJV11 said:
The words of Jesus Christ:
My sheep HEAR MY VOICE, and THEY FOLLOW ME.
Sounds like these people are following entertainment or self, but not Jesus.
Hogwash......maybe they are tired of the same-old-same-old IFB culture. You know scandals, Schaaps or senseless fights over dress, versions preferences & music preferences.Walt said:
Just my own thoughts. But I do attend a big, big city non-dom church & have talked with number of former IFB including & IFB college grads & even preachers that refer to each others as "recovering IFB."16KJV11 said: