What I saw in church this week..............

[bgwilkinson]

Sunday, February 25, 2018.

I assume these were taken on a Sunday night...

Yes, forgot to take them in the AM.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Sunday, March 4, 2018, Morning Service.

 

[fishinnut]

I watched a big burly guy with tattoos all over his arms pick up his wife big white purse, put it in his lap, dig to the bottom of it with both hands until he found a pen.  : Enough said.....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Sunday, March 4, 2018, Morning Service.

Is that normal or was the attendance down?
It doesn?t appear all that much different from your Sunday night pictures.
That hardly looks like the auditorium of a 17k attendance church would appear.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Sunday, March 4, 2018, Morning Service.

Is that normal or was the attendance down?
It doesn?t appear all that much different from your Sunday night pictures.
That hardly looks like the auditorium of a 17k attendance church would appear.

The lower level and the balcony each have about 3,000 seats.
Lower level is not close to half filled.
Making attendance less than 1,500 total.

 

[Twisted]

Lower level is not close to half filled.
Making attendance less than 1,500 total.

Remeber, there is no such thing as a "little" church.

Keep pressing onward.

 

[Jo]

Went to an IFB church. The pastor has encouraged the people to stay away from the media. Saw the news a few days before.  A couple of men at Open Door Baptist Church in Mesquite  have been arrested for sexual assault. Could be a total coincidence.

It brings me no pleasure to inform. I do so for those who have no voice.

 

[16KJV11]

Went to an IFB church. The pastor has encouraged the people to stay away from the media. Saw the news a few days before.  A couple of men at Open Door Baptist Church in Mesquite  have been arrested for sexual assault. Could be a total coincidence.

It brings me no pleasure to inform. I do so for those who have no voice.

Heart breaking and a blight on the cause of Christ.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Sunday AM Service, March 11, 2018
This is health and wealth gospel month, faith promise. Give to God so he gives back to you. It is the teaching first known in this church from Jack Schaap and Thom Kimmel and others such as Larry Smith. Much scripture is twisted and distorted. Kinda hard to take.

PM service

 

[16KJV11]

Sunday AM Service, March 11, 2018
This is health and wealth gospel month, faith promise. Give to God so he gives back to you. It is the teaching first known in this church from Jack Schaap and Thom Kimmel and others such as Larry Smith. Much scripture is twisted and distorted. Kinda hard to take.

PM service

I have never heard Faith Promise taught in that light.
Is that what Pastor Wilkerson says?
If that is so, you should confront him and rebuke him in love.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Sunday AM Service, March 11, 2018
This is health and wealth gospel month, faith promise. Give to God so he gives back to you. It is the teaching first known in this church from Jack Schaap and Thom Kimmel and others such as Larry Smith. Much scripture is twisted and distorted. Kinda hard to take.

PM service

I have never heard Faith Promise taught in that light.
Is that what Pastor Wilkerson says?
If that is so, you should confront him and rebuke him in love.

We still have a couple of weeks of browbeating before we will be coerced into signing our faith promise commitment cards vowing to God to give X amount per month, and if we don't give God will get it from us like a pound of flesh. He tells sad stories where people didn't give and wish they had. This started with Schaap and his bestie Kimmel. I have never signed one of those. In the meantime, we will be guilted every service. Happens for one month every year. He does say it's his opinion though, but he believes it.
I'll post a pic when we get them. Probably last Sunday of the month.

I'll be getting him another copy of "Freedom to give" by Daniel Mynyk.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0982621574/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

He has moderated since I gave him his first copy that's why he only says it's his opinion.

 

[Twisted]

We still have a couple of weeks of browbeating before we will be coerced into signing our faith promise commitment cards vowing to God to give X amount per month, and if we don't give God will get it from us like a pound of flesh. He tells sad stories where people didn't give and wish they had. This started with Schaap and his bestie Kimmel. I have never signed one of those. In the meantime, we will be guilted every service. Happens for one month every year. He does say it's his opinion though, but he believes it.
I'll post a pic when we get them. Probably last Sunday of the month.

I appreciate your position on this.

I have heard more scripture ripped out of context and more sad stories and more lying, stupid stories about this subject.

 

[fishinnut]

We still have a couple of weeks of browbeating before we will be coerced into signing our faith promise commitment cards vowing to God to give X amount per month, and if we don't give God will get it from us like a pound of flesh. He tells sad stories where people didn't give and wish they had. This started with Schaap and his bestie Kimmel. I have never signed one of those. In the meantime, we will be guilted every service. Happens for one month every year. He does say it's his opinion though, but he believes it.
I'll post a pic when we get them. Probably last Sunday of the month.

I appreciate your position on this.

I have heard more scripture ripped out of context and more sad stories and more lying, stupid stories about this subject.

I heard F/Promise missions giving first taught with no high pressure, some 43-44 years ago & was able to be a part. For much of my adult life I have been paid on a commission basis, based on sales. So there is not the advantage of knowing what my regular pay might be to determine what I could give. So I have refrained from signing a pledge card. But to this day give what I can to missions.

IFB thrive on guilt trip preaching............which is an easy thing for them when involved in FP.

 

[Norefund]

I was never a member during the Schaap years but I remember Jack Hyles using a similar message to brow beat people into giving. Phrases like "robbing God" and songs like "you can't beat God giving" have always been a part of FBC culture.  I never heard the title of "Faith Promise" during my time there but there was always a need or a crisis that required giving your money and believing that it would come back to you multiplied by some arbitrary number.

I know this has been discussed in the past but what exactly is the Faith Promise?

 

[bgwilkinson]

During the last Sunday service of faith promise month we get a card that we are suppose to sign. The card is our vow to God to give x amount per month for missions. There are two parts to the card. The signature part we are to keep and post in our houses the other part has only the amount we vow to give, these are collected during the last service. They are then used to set the budget for the faith promise part of our mission program.

 

[RAIDER]

During the last Sunday service of faith promise month we get a card that we are suppose to sign. The card is our vow to God to give x amount per month for missions. There are two parts to the card. The signature part we are to keep and post in our houses the other part has only the amount we vow to give, these are collected during the last service. They are then used to set the budget for the faith promise part of our mission program.

While I am not a "health and wealth prosperity preaching" kind, there are a lot of Scriptures on how God blesses giving.  I think Faith Promise is a wonderful idea when done correctly.  Our church has been able to support a multitude of missionaries because of Faith Promise.  We have a Missions Conference for 3 days.  Several missionaries are invited to come and present their work.  The preaching is on spreading the Gospel, not browbeating people about giving.  Of course, we are encouraged to give as the Lord leads.  We fill out Faith Promise commitment cards without our names.  It is a "I will pledge to give this amount as God provides it".  This amount is used to project the following year's missions giving budget.  It is such a blessing to be able to support new missionaries each year.  It has been nothing but a pleasant experience for our church and me personally.

 

[Twisted]

During the last Sunday service of faith promise month we get a card that we are suppose to sign. The card is our vow to God to give x amount per month for missions. There are two parts to the card. The signature part we are to keep and post in our houses the other part has only the amount we vow to give, these are collected during the last service. They are then used to set the budget for the faith promise part of our mission program.

While I am not a "health and wealth prosperity preaching" kind, there are a lot of Scriptures on how God blesses giving.  I think Faith Promise is a wonderful idea when done correctly.  Our church has been able to support a multitude of missionaries because of Faith Promise.  We have a Missions Conference for 3 days.  Several missionaries are invited to come and present their work.  The preaching is on spreading the Gospel, not browbeating people about giving.  Of course, we are encouraged to give as the Lord leads.  We fill out Faith Promise commitment cards without our names.  It is a "I will pledge to give this amount as God provides it".  This amount is used to project the following year's missions giving budget.  It is such a blessing to be able to support new missionaries each year.  It has been nothing but a pleasant experience for our church and me personally.

There is no doubt, and no one is denying, that God can and will use bad preachers, bad messages and bad collection methods to further His purposes.

I also have no doubt that there are, somewhere, honest pastors who use FP and do not abuse the scripture nor browbeat those who give.  While I do not agree with the principle, I still give a hearty "AMEN".

 

[RAIDER]

There is no doubt, and no one is denying, that God can and will use bad preachers, bad messages and bad collection methods to further His purposes.

I also have no doubt that there are, somewhere, honest pastors who use FP and do not abuse the scripture nor browbeat those who give.  While I do not agree with the principle, I still give a hearty "AMEN".

What is your preferred "method" in supporting missions?

 

[Twisted]

There is no doubt, and no one is denying, that God can and will use bad preachers, bad messages and bad collection methods to further His purposes.

I also have no doubt that there are, somewhere, honest pastors who use FP and do not abuse the scripture nor browbeat those who give.  While I do not agree with the principle, I still give a hearty "AMEN".

What is your preferred "method" in supporting missions?

No different than anything else.

Give as the Lord has prospered you, not of necessity, but out of love.

 

[TidesofTruth]

When Faith Promise is correctly taught (which in rarely ever is), It is a scriptural principle that helps an individual fulfill the command to go into all the world preaching the gospel. 

Faith Promise is simply partnering with God to give.  It is not sacrificial giving. (although there is a place for that in one's life, this isn't it)  You do not say "I'll give up this and use the money of Faith Promise".  It is to be part of a New Testament Joyful giving part of one's life. 

It is simply getting alone with God and asking Him how much you should give.  It is not a planning session in which you figure out from your budget how much.  It is strictly a matter of faith.  A matter in which the Lord impresses on you how much it should be.  Once the commitment has been made, if it is the correct commitment after you initiate in faith either by beginning the payment and/or formally committing,  God should provide the funding of the faith promise amount, not you.  You are the vehicle.  He may give you a pay increase or opportunities to earn more money or a whole host of other things but the faith promise as initially acted upon should strictly be funded by funds that were not available when you start.

This presses a few issues.  1.  One must have a true walk with God to be able to participate.  It is dangerous for one who handles their walk haphazardly to go about making this kind of commitment without knowing it is from God.  Dangerous in that it is dangerous to one's faith when you write a check on God's checkbook and He "fails" to pay it.  Creates much doubt in the believers mind about their relationship and what other things God might "fail' them. 

2.  One can dangerously make assumptions about their relationship with God and God does seem to be consistent in humbling those who assume to much but don't haven't put the work in to make those assumptions.  A lot of naivety on just Who God is and the mistake that He is your sky Genie.  Again very dangerous to faith.  Schaap was the worst I have ever heard at this.

I think it best to test out your relationship and see how He proves Himself to get a handle on where you are at.  Don't expose the church or yourself to too much to begin with.  It's called FAITH Promise for a reason.  Grow into Faith Promise just as you would anything done in faith.  As you test your relationship in understanding how God works and how He is actually the provider of the funds promised then you can step out more and more as He leads and not as you misunderstand where you are in your faith. 
 
And that is the correct Faith Promise teaching.