What event(s) opened your eyes

[JustABigKid]

As I have in the last couple of years began to move away from some of the teachings I was under growing up I start to look back and go why didn't I see that then. What was it then that actually made you go wait a second something isnt right about this.

For me I think it was when I was working with a children's church and week after week some of the workers were sent back out on their route to find someone to be "saved" or "baptized" so we could say we have never gone a Sunday without having someone saved or baptized.

What about you?

 

[Izdaari]

The 2012 Republican primaries, when all the conservative evangelical support for Rick Santorum, including many in my own church, gave me a pointed wake-up call that my political and social values, if not my theology, were no longer compatible with my denomination. That's why I switched from Assembles of God to Episcopalian.

 

[rsc2a]

When I stopped reading pop-Christianity type books and started reading books that were serious about their exegesis coupled with learning about the historical teachings of the Church coupled with reading my Bible with a self-awareness of my own preconceptions for the first time...

...from that, it changed the way I look at salvation, relationships, Law, politics, finances, nature and a host of other things. It completely changed my worldview from "American evangelical Christianity" to something I believe is much more in line with Jesus.

 

[Sherryh]

a pastor that is heaven reminded us growing up to follow God not man..........man changes like the weather...

 

[kaba]

I believe the same way as I was taught growing up. I am still IFB, and dont plan to change. I have taught my children the same as I was raised.  I do remember in college when I realized that HAC/FBC, (staff & faculty) did not have all the answers. I saw the double standards from Mrs. Evans, and since then I have always questioned what was taught there and just trusted in my own personal relationship with the Lord.  I think as I get older and find out more and more stuff I am disgusted with the behavior that continues to come from HAC!

 

[BALAAM]

When I stopped reading pop-Christianity type books and started reading books that were serious about their exegesis coupled with learning about the historical teachings of the Church coupled with reading my Bible with a self-awareness of my own preconceptions for the first time...

...from that, it changed the way I look at salvation, relationships, Law, politics, finances, nature and a host of other things. It completely changed my worldview from "American evangelical Christianity" to something I believe is much more in line with Jesus.

Explain what you mean by changing the way you looked at salvation.

 

[rsc2a]

When I stopped reading pop-Christianity type books and started reading books that were serious about their exegesis coupled with learning about the historical teachings of the Church coupled with reading my Bible with a self-awareness of my own preconceptions for the first time...

...from that, it changed the way I look at salvation, relationships, Law, politics, finances, nature and a host of other things. It completely changed my worldview from "American evangelical Christianity" to something I believe is much more in line with Jesus.

Explain what you mean by changing the way you looked at salvation.

I stopped looking at salvation as a point in time and started looking at as a process by which God conforms us to the image of His Son.

 

[FSSL]

When I started hanging around with well-known separatists. I realized that they were not separating over doctrine, just personalities/loyalty. This prompted me to read the history of IFBs between 1940s and 1990s and realized that the names and issues changed with no consideration to essential doctrinal differences.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

When I stopped reading pop-Christianity type books and started reading books that were serious about their exegesis coupled with learning about the historical teachings of the Church coupled with reading my Bible with a self-awareness of my own preconceptions for the first time...

...from that, it changed the way I look at salvation, relationships, Law, politics, finances, nature and a host of other things. It completely changed my worldview from "American evangelical Christianity" to something I believe is much more in line with Jesus.

Explain what you mean by changing the way you looked at salvation.

I stopped looking at salvation as a point in time and started looking at as a process by which God conforms us to the image of His Son.

The repentant thief on the cross had a short process.
You seem to be saying that growing in grace is growing into salvation.
Is salvation a journey or a destination?
Both?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The repentant thief on the cross had a short process.[/quote]

And Peter had a long one.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]You seem to be saying that growing in grace is growing into salvation.
Is salvation a journey or a destination?
Both?
[/quote]

Both.

 

[JustABigKid]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The repentant thief on the cross had a short process.

And Peter had a long one.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]You seem to be saying that growing in grace is growing into salvation.
Is salvation a journey or a destination?
Both?
[/quote]

Both.
[/quote]

So how do you know if you are on the right journey? Can you veer off this journey and never get to the destination that you were hoping for?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=JustABigKid]So how do you know if you are on the right journey?[/quote]

From an earlier thread:

[quote author=rsc2a][quote author=Timothy]If someone came up to you and asked, "I believe God gave us Jesus, who died for my sins. I trust in Him alone for my salvation. But, how can I know my faith is the sort that saves?"

How would you respond?[/quote]

"Do you love God and love people? How does that play out in your everyday life? Do you, as a general rule, find yourself striving to be more like Jesus or less? Do you want to be more like Jesus? Are you finding yourself able to trust God more with things and thereby worrying less than you used to? Is the trajectory of your thoughts/fears/dreams focusing more on others than on yourself?"[/quote]


[quote author=JustABigKid]Can you veer off this journey and never get to the destination that you were hoping for?[/quote]

Perhaps.  It would be because you started heading for a different destination. Maybe you thought the beach would have been more fun than the mountains.

Not accidentally though. Do you think that you can strive to love God and love others to the best of your ability and not find Love? Now you could strive to love God and love others and find that you like the admiration of others. You've changed destinations at that point.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]The repentant thief on the cross had a short process.

And Peter had a long one.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]You seem to be saying that growing in grace is growing into salvation.
Is salvation a journey or a destination?
Both?
[/quote]


Both.
[/quote]

Peter had a long one is based on assumption.
Jesus indicated the thief's salvation was instantaneous.
And, the Book of Acts contains many instances of 'point in time' salvation experiences.

Now, I believe many do not grow in grace because they are not saved...but salvation is not a work in progress....IMBO.

'B' stands for Biblical. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I just downloaded this to my kindle today:

http://www.christianbook.com/asking-jesus-heart-know-sure-saved/j-d-greear/9781433679216/pd/679216?en=google-pla&kw=christian-living-0-20&p=1167941&gclid=CIm7tvbgjLcCFQHNOgodxmgArQ

 

[Fresh Air]

What event(s) opened your eyes

...and this question is precisely the problem I have with the vast majority of those who have left the IFB movement for some greener pasture elsewhere. They did so over an event, not over a doctrinal study resulting in a heart change of belief. I've had 'events' happen to me. You've had 'events' happen to you. We aren't supposed to draw our theology or practice from the 'events' that happen to us. That is the way the charismatics do it, and you can see the result of such an approach from a mile away. I contend that this whole IFB-movement-is-evil-and-dying crowd hold their new positions as the result of 'events' - and that's an awful reason to either choose or leave a religious position.

If you want to change from IFB to contemporary evangelical, or reformed, or conservative protestant, etc. do so b/c you have studied the Bible, and no longer believe IFB doctrine, and embrace a different doctrinal position based on your study of the Word of God. Don't do it b/c an 'event' opened your eyes.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Peter had a long one is based on assumption. [/quote]

Peter having a long one is based on an honest reading of the text.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Jesus indicated the thief's salvation was instantaneous. [/quote]

Jesus told the thief, "Today you will be with me in paradise." Fitting words for a person who was going to die...that day.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]And, the Book of Acts contains many instances of 'point in time' salvation experiences.[/quote]

Sure there are plenty of "point in time" salvation experiences. The book of Acts also contains many instances of salvation that included sequential steps.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Now, I believe many do not grow in grace because they are not saved...but salvation is not a work in progress....IMBO.

'B' stands for Biblical.  [/quote]

Every Christian thinks their own view is the Biblical one. Mine just happens to include all the verses, instead of a cut-and-paste version. 

 

[JustABigKid]

What event(s) opened your eyes

...and this question is precisely the problem I have with the vast majority of those who have left the IFB movement for some greener pasture elsewhere. They did so over an event, not over a doctrinal study resulting in a heart change of belief. I've had 'events' happen to me. You've had 'events' happen to you. We aren't supposed to draw our theology or practice from the 'events' that happen to us. That is the way the charismatics do it, and you can see the result of such an approach from a mile away. I contend that this whole IFB-movement-is-evil-and-dying crowd hold their new positions as the result of 'events' - and that's an awful reason to either choose or leave a religious position.

If you want to change from IFB to contemporary evangelical, or reformed, or conservative protestant, etc. do so b/c you have studied the Bible, and no longer believe IFB doctrine, and embrace a different doctrinal position based on your study of the Word of God. Don't do it b/c an 'event' opened your eyes.

Sometimes these events open your eyes to improper teachings of Bible doctrines which is what allows you to realize the wrongs going on.

 

[rsc2a]

What event(s) opened your eyes

...and this question is precisely the problem I have with the vast majority of those who have left the IFB movement for some greener pasture elsewhere. They did so over an event, not over a doctrinal study resulting in a heart change of belief. I've had 'events' happen to me. You've had 'events' happen to you. We aren't supposed to draw our theology or practice from the 'events' that happen to us. That is the way the charismatics do it, and you can see the result of such an approach from a mile away. I contend that this whole IFB-movement-is-evil-and-dying crowd hold their new positions as the result of 'events' - and that's an awful reason to either choose or leave a religious position.

If you want to change from IFB to contemporary evangelical, or reformed, or conservative protestant, etc. do so b/c you have studied the Bible, and no longer believe IFB doctrine, and embrace a different doctrinal position based on your study of the Word of God. Don't do it b/c an 'event' opened your eyes.

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, (2 Peter 1:16-19, ESV)

Peter: We know this to be true because we saw it...we were at the event.

And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. (Acts 10:39-42, ESV)

Again Peter: We are witnesses to these events. We were there. Because we saw these events, God commanded us to preach and testify that Jesus saves.



The entire story of Christianity is based on events: from the sacrifice of Isaac to the deliverance at Passover, from the anointing of David to the Babylon exile, from the exile from the Garden to Heaven coming down to earth, from God stepping onto earth to Him dying on a cross, from the death of God to His victory at the Resurrection, from the Fall of man to the restoration of all things.

Events are what make Christianity true, not doctrine. Doctrine testifies to the event, not vice versa. Christianity that is purely knowledge isn't Christianity; it is a clanging cymbal. Christianity is experiential. Christianity is a full life. To be a Christian is to take part in the greatest events in all of history.

 

[Just me]

The "event" JustABigKid mentioned is not a one time event but rather a consistent principle of that church.  The opening of the eyes to the viles of the IFBx movenment that is at WHBC begins with an "event" and grows from there.  Once the scales start to fall off the eyes the flood gates of awareness open and the hypocracy of it all is revealed.

That "event" and the shock that occurs once the eyes are open then lead to the realization that the place and its teachings are full of lies and deciept.  Who can then trust anything they teach?  right or wrong true or false you just no longer believe anything these places teach or have taught you.

You then search the Scriptures and move on to another church and start from the basics and question all things. 

All from an "event"?

Yes, most definitely because those "events" should never have occurred in the first place.

 

[ALAYMAN]

What event(s) opened your eyes

...and this question is precisely the problem I have with the vast majority of those who have left the IFB movement for some greener pasture elsewhere. They did so over an event, not over a doctrinal study resulting in a heart change of belief. I've had 'events' happen to me. You've had 'events' happen to you. We aren't supposed to draw our theology or practice from the 'events' that happen to us. That is the way the charismatics do it, and you can see the result of such an approach from a mile away. I contend that this whole IFB-movement-is-evil-and-dying crowd hold their new positions as the result of 'events' - and that's an awful reason to either choose or leave a religious position.

If you want to change from IFB to contemporary evangelical, or reformed, or conservative protestant, etc. do so b/c you have studied the Bible, and no longer believe IFB doctrine, and embrace a different doctrinal position based on your study of the Word of God. Don't do it b/c an 'event' opened your eyes.

I love ya bro, you know that, but I got to disagree in part with ya here.  The event(s) of Dave Hyles and many other true episodes of immorality within the ranks opened my eyes that all the rules ("standards"/doctrine) in the world don't empower a person to live the life that can only be lived in Christ empowered by walking in the Spirit.  Too many Xers miss the life of sanctification by the Spirit, replacing it with a list of rules instead.  Externalism without the Vine is a recipe for pride, and attempting to live by the power of the flesh.

I'm still IFB, not reformed, contemporary, SBC, or any other, but I ain't from that strain like Vineyard, Gray, or Hyles.