Things to show an older generation of fundamentalists besides our liberty.

[pastorryanhayden]

I wrote this piece on my blog.  (I haven't been blogging much lately, mostly because I'm busy with pastoring and trying to get my pizza oven finished.)  It is about how my generation (I'm 29 BTW) uses Christian liberty as an excuse to run to the other extreme of the IFBx crowd. 

http://www.ryan-hayden.com/to-all-those-struggling-with-the-generation-before/

Any thoughts?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

You are definitely on the right track. However, the assumption that is made by many of the "stodgy" (not saying you personally at all) that because a Christian drinks, gets a tattoo or wears different clothing styles that the fundamentalist who does those things is either backslidden or trying to flaunt rebellion. No doubt that happens on occasion but that is not always the case.

So if the "free" Christian is trying to use those things as rebellion, then that shows a heart issue. If the "free" Christian does those things because of personal meaning and not intending to flaunt liberty, then the perception that it is flaunting is nothing more than judgmentalism in disguise.

Fine line to be sure.

 

[4everfsu]

Good luck young pastor in your ministry. May you put God first in pleasing before any others.

 

[Recovering IFB]

I'll take an Italian sausage with pepperoni please...

 

[christundivided]

You're giving way too much credit where no credit is due.

It often amazes that the previous generation/generations ignore the fact they are the very ones that raised this generation. They bare some responsibility in what "they see" in those after them. Yet, they only want to claim what is "good" or semi-"good" about the following generations.

Sorry "Sir". The previous generations also bears responsibility in the short comings.

If anything "good" ever comes out ANYTHING..... its not result of "fundamentalism" influence. I'll show my gratitude where its due. To Jesus Christ.

The next time you read Luke 11, you might want to make an modern day application....

Luk 11:47  Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Luk 11:48  Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

 

[16KJV11]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

I think that modern day free-birdism displays another type of phariseeism that they most vehemently accuse IFB's of.
It kind of reminds me of the liberal vs. conservative in the arena of politics.
Liberals extol their open mindedness and demand that you tolerate their views and if you don't...
Tsk tsk tsk, you aint nothing but a closed minded, bigoted homophobic masogynistic pig!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

I think that modern day free-birdism displays another type of phariseeism that they most vehemently accuse IFB's of.
It kind of reminds me of the liberal vs. conservative in the arena of politics.
Liberals extol their open mindedness and demand that you tolerate their views and if you don't...
Tsk tsk tsk, you aint nothing but a closed minded, bigoted homophobic masogynistic pig!

Actually, I think what you describe is NOT found in mainstream evangelicalism. It might be common amongst those who left fundamentalism but in general, most Christians really don't care.

When my wife started wearing jeans, she would go to the stores and wonder what people would be bothered by her wearing jeans. As it turned out, the only people who would stare at her were the HAC students who remembered her from college. The rest of society and Christians for other denominations really didn't care one way or the other.

When I mention to evangelical people about the fundy background I came from, I get mostly a surprise because they are mildly cognizant or completely unaware such extremism exists in Christianity. Seems the judgmental problem is not from the beer drinkers or movie goers or tattooed liberal Christians in general but it is perceived by those who were brought up that there is a devil behind every bush.

 

[christundivided]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

I try to be student of English. I'm not the best and certainly not he worst.... I do KNOW that praise is a synonym of gratitude. I never said one thing about worship.

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Really? Get a grip man. I seriously doubt you can place you finger on an actual person holding a grudge over not getting to see Rambo.... or having to wear a tie.

How about not being told the truth? Do you possible think that might have something to do with some of the reason ex fundamentalists have such a strong opinion of said peoples? I know that is my problem. Don't take my problem and belittle it by suggesting I'm not grateful or caring or tolerant. Please.....

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

Yep. Just what the apostles did. They never had any falling outs and always showed "grace" when dealing with a lie. I think I'll their example. Is that okay with you?

 

[christundivided]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

I think that modern day free-birdism displays another type of phariseeism that they most vehemently accuse IFB's of.
It kind of reminds me of the liberal vs. conservative in the arena of politics.
Liberals extol their open mindedness and demand that you tolerate their views and if you don't...
Tsk tsk tsk, you aint nothing but a closed minded, bigoted homophobic masogynistic pig!

Sure, Sure. You expect grace but you won't give it. You then cry "foul" when you don't get it and blame others. It works both ways. You haven't seen me demanding "grace". Who's been demanding "grace" here?

None of you know me. I can honestly say.... I have been more than gracious toward many extreme fundamentalists. I've never had the same returned. Never. I have always given more than I gotten. In fact, I am pretty sure its useless to even attempt to over look a glaring problem with a extreme fundamentalist by begging and pleading...... or by telling them how grateful you are for their past faithfulness......

 

[16KJV11]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

I think that modern day free-birdism displays another type of phariseeism that they most vehemently accuse IFB's of.
It kind of reminds me of the liberal vs. conservative in the arena of politics.
Liberals extol their open mindedness and demand that you tolerate their views and if you don't...
Tsk tsk tsk, you aint nothing but a closed minded, bigoted homophobic masogynistic pig!

Sure, Sure. You expect grace but you won't give it. You then cry "foul" when you don't get it and blame others. It works both ways. You haven't seen me demanding "grace". Who's been demanding "grace" here?

None of you know me. I can honestly say.... I have been more than gracious toward many extreme fundamentalists. I've never had the same returned. Never. I have always given more than I gotten. In fact, I am pretty sure its useless to even attempt to over look a glaring problem with a extreme fundamentalist by begging and pleading...... or by telling them how grateful you are for their past faithfulness......

So, I think you should pick up your toys and go home!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Modern extreme fundamentalism is dead. I say good riddance. I don't owe them anything. I don't have a tattoo. I don't listen to "Taylor Swift", I'm not "knocking back" beers while singing "99 bottles of beer on the wall". The "parallels" you draw are silly. I'll praise my Master for the good things He's given me.

Keep on "heaping" your "back door" praise on someone else. This is a "fundamental" problem with most people who claim to be "fundamentalists". You don't really want "praise" or "thankfulness" to go where it belongs. You all want it yourselves. I've never been more sick of "pastor" appreciation dinners, parties, meetings and the like. Seems like every time I turn around I know someone that's going to another one.....somewhere for someone. I'm sure Jesus might be just a little jealous. After all.....I have read that He is a jealous God.

Where was the "back door praise" in that article?  I'm not for praising men.  I'm trying to start a movement among independent Baptists to take a stand against preacher worship.  I was by no means trying to say that we should be heaping praise on the pastors from our past.

What I was saying was that we should be patient with them and grateful for them.  Gratitude is not the same thing as praise or worship. 

Maybe you had a IFBx pastor who was a gospel destroying, Bible replacing, narcissistic dictator.  I know some existed.  I also know that the vast majority of those who are whining about fundamentalism probably weren't pastored by those men, but by humble (if not confused) pastors who were just trying to do the right thing by God and their church.  I have a feeling their are a lot of thirty-five year old evangelicals who still haven't gotten over their parents forbidding them to see Rambo or their Christian school making them wear a tie everyday. 

Grow up.  Love Jesus.  Love His Word.  Give the grace you are expecting.  That's all I'm saying.

I think that modern day free-birdism displays another type of phariseeism that they most vehemently accuse IFB's of.
It kind of reminds me of the liberal vs. conservative in the arena of politics.
Liberals extol their open mindedness and demand that you tolerate their views

Exactly!

 

[pastorryanhayden]

CU, I'm sorry you were lied to.  I'm sorry you had a crumby experience with fundamentalism.
I'm also sorry you seem to be taking everything I say so personally. 
That being said, I don't think the supposed catharsis or therapeutic value of mocking fundamentalists and scorning every part of your fundy background cancels out the fact that it just isn't Christlike behavior.
Also, I don't think it's fair to project your experience onto all IFBs.

 

[Recovering IFB]

CU, I'm sorry you were lied to.  I'm sorry you had a crumby experience with fundamentalism.
I'm also sorry you seem to be taking everything I say so personally. 
That being said, I don't think the supposed catharsis or therapeutic value of mocking fundamentalists and scorning every part of your fundy background cancels out the fact that it just isn't Christlike behavior.
Also, I don't think it's fair to project your experience onto all IFBs.

Really? Did you just see 16kjv11 and TB's response? C'mon man!

 

[christundivided]

CU, I'm sorry you were lied to.  I'm sorry you had a crumby experience with fundamentalism.
I'm also sorry you seem to be taking everything I say so personally. 
That being said, I don't think the supposed catharsis or therapeutic value of mocking fundamentalists and scorning every part of your fundy background cancels out the fact that it just isn't Christlike behavior.
Also, I don't think it's fair to project your experience onto all IFBs.

There is no need to apologize. Also, don't pretend I'm blaming you and other IFBs for all the issues. I haven't projected them upon all IFBs. My objection to your blog doesn't equal such. I consider TB to be an overall good example of the better parts of IFBdom. I'd say TB is a rare "bird". There are many places he departs from traditional IFBdom and by no means would I consider him IFB extreme. I disagree with him in several areas. We've even had heated discussions..... I just call it like I see it. I have for many many years. I don't even pull punch toward those I consider good friends.

I don't think the supposed catharsis or therapeutic value of mocking fundamentalists and scorning every part of your fundy background cancels out the fact that it just isn't Christlike behavior.

Can I ask you to put your finger on where I've mocked them? I do reject much of what they teach. If you consider that "mocking them". Please explain.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Can I ask you to put your finger on where I've mocked them? I do reject much of what they teach. If you consider that "mocking them". Please explain.

I wasn't referencing you with that comment.  Should have made that more clear.  Fundies just seem to be open season right now.  Maybe I'm bringing my own personal experience into it too much (Like my run ins with SFL.)  That's just how I see it.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

Really? Did you just see 16kjv11 and TB's response? C'mon man!

I can see what your'e saying about KJV1611's quip, but what did TB say?

 

[rsc2a]

Really? Did you just see 16kjv11 and TB's response? C'mon man!

I can see what your'e saying about KJV1611's quip, but what did TB say?

"Exactly!"

 

[16KJV11]

Really? Did you just see 16kjv11 and TB's response? C'mon man!

I can see what your'e saying about KJV1611's quip, but what did TB say?

Yes, I just ran roughshod over him.
Good grief!
My apologies... :

 

[rsc2a]

Can I ask you to put your finger on where I've mocked them? I do reject much of what they teach. If you consider that "mocking them". Please explain.

I wasn't referencing you with that comment.  Should have made that more clear.  Fundies just seem to be open season right now.  Maybe I'm bringing my own personal experience into it too much (Like my run ins with SFL.)  That's just how I see it.

The only run-in I'm aware of that you've had with SFL folks is when they cricitized a blog post by you by saying you were setting up the pastor as a mini-Pope over his congregation. You later admitted that the post was "hastily written". (I also think you used the term "poorly written" but that might have been a commenter.)

Are there other run-ins that I am unaware of?