The price of gas continues to climb...

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christundivided said:
1. The power of the energy lobbyists;
2. The politicians (especially Republican politicians) who rely on campaign donations, especially now after Citizens United;
3. A voting population that is too busy / too politicized / not educated enough to understand the situation; and
4. Current US law that treats corporations as individuals with constitutional rights.

1. Okay.
2. Nonsense. The oil industry loves Obama. He received almost 1 million dollars in donations in 2008 from the oil/gas industry.
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Yep.  Which does not refute what I said:  the politicans, especially the GOP, are not going to stand for this.  The oil/gas industry has given 4-5 times more money to GOP politicians than to Democrats. Go to this link:
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=e01

Scroll down halfway on the page, and there is a section called "Party Split: 1990-2010". It's a red/blue vertical bar graph. See for yourself:  oil/gas is an almost ENTIRELY Republican lobby.


3. The population isn't too busy to get MAD over 5 dollar gasoline. I think its hilarious that Obama wants the "poor" and "middle class" on his side... And he is allowing this to happen. There is more money being lost from over priced oil than anything else.
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No, there is not.

I saw an estimate that high gas prices resulted in 92 billion dollars less money being spent from poor and middle class americans in 2011.
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Feel free to provide the citation.
Then be prepared to discuss other economic "leakage" out of the economy.  Hint: this isn't even in the top 5 biggest losses.


4. I got a suggestion for you..... MOVE.
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Why should I?  Is that your response to everything?  Don't like it, move?
So if you don't like abortion, then move to Iran where it's illegal?

Or maybe you don't apply the same standards to yourself that you tell other people to follow?
And maybe I have a RIGHT to stay here, and try to change things?

Corporation do have rights. Corporation are made up of REAL PEOPLE.
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No, corporations are legal entities.  They are separate and apart from the people who make them up. 


Do you hate unions? What about Corporations that owned by members of unions? Do they have rights? ;)
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Only corporations have citizenship-like rights under the law. Unions, clubs, etc. do not.

You're too easy.....
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That's a pretty stupid comment, considering your poor performance in this topic.
 
redgreen5 said:
Also wrong. 

1. Iran's ambitions in this area stretch back over 20 years, and have remained the same, regardless of the price of oil.
2. Iranian oil is sold at the same price as world oil.  If they really wanted more money, they could just pump more.
3. Iran is currently under an oil embargo set to kick in next month. It's far more likely that they are trying to derail that embargo from taking effect, than they are trying to raise the global price of oil.
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Lets slow down for a moment..... agree?

1. Iran wouldn't even have an oil industry if it hadn't been for Great Britain. The resulting revolution was ALL about who was going to profit the most from Iran's oil.
2. Silly.... They can drive up the price of oil and make more money with less work. It does cost money to bring oil to market. Why increase your expenses when you can get more for what you're already pumping? This exactly why Saudi Arabia cut production. The resulting increase in prices has more than made up for the volume.
3. Maybe... Its also likely they are driving up the price of oil to get all they can before the embargo by the US, France and Germany. Its a "win, win" situation for them.

Do you work for an alternative energy company?

I don't. The only "skin" I have in the game is what I pay at the pump. Do you have more "skin in the game"? Stocks in "green energy"???
 
christundivided said:
Lets slow down for a moment..... agree?
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Sure. 

1. Iran wouldn't even have an oil industry if it hadn't been for Great Britain.
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Well, no. 

Iran would have eventually developed one of their own, just as other countries have done.  When the price of oil hit a certain level to make it economically feasible to conduct extraction, then Iran would have created its own oil industry.

I don't see how that even factors into this discussion, though.


The resulting revolution was ALL about who was going to profit the most from Iran's oil.
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Wrong.

Iran's revolution was a reaction to decades of western internventionism, followed by years of oppression under the Shah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution#Causes

Causes
Further information: Background and causes of the Iranian Revolution
During World War II the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union invaded Iran to gain access to the nation's infrastructure and restrict ties to Germany. The Shah, Iran's monarch, was forced to abdicate in favor of his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. During this time Iran was a constitutional monarchy with a strong prime minister. In the early 1950s the new prime minister, Mohammad Mosaddegh, nationalized the country's petroleum industry. The move angered the British and U.S. governments which, in 1953, engineered a coup d'
 
I pm'd invictus a couple of days ago about something on this forum, and he was oblivious to what I was talking about. He stated that he will not post any other name being as he hates that sort of thing. Nor has he joined this forum.
 
Bro Blue said:
I pm'd invictus a couple of days ago about something on this forum, and he was oblivious to what I was talking about. He stated that he will not post any other name being as he hates that sort of thing. Nor has he joined this forum.
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Oh, I see.  I wasn't aware of any of that.

I'm not Vic.  I'm not Invictus, either.  :P

I was over at Bible Versions Discussion Board under this same name for two years, before coming here.  You can wander over there and check, if you like. Also, I think some people here know me from there as well.
 
I know redgreen from the Bible Versions board. He's definitely not Invictus.
 
redgreen5 said:
Wrong again.
Saudi Arabia cuts production in order to maintain the price of oil at what they consider to be an optimal level.  However, there is a large range of prices at which they can set the price of oil, and still make a profit all along the price curve. Look at this graph:
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Where did you get the graph?

Are you accustom to posting graphs without quoting the source?

Any IDIOT knows that Saudi Arabia makes more money the higher oil prices go. There is only one direction of the "CURVE"... its up. There isn't any opposing arc.
 
[quote author=christundivided]
Where did you get the graph? [/quote]

Right click. Properties.
it's from an economics course at Oswego State University in New York.

Are you accustom to posting graphs without quoting the source?
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I'm not accustomed to needing to educate people how to find the source of an embedded image.


Any IDIOT knows that Saudi Arabia makes more money the higher oil prices go.
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Except that is not how the market works.    The current price is around $108.56/barrel.

Saudi Arabia makes more money the higher oil prices go?
Are you sure?
If the price were set at $50,000/barrel, how much money do you think that Saudi Arabia would make?

I'd be careful with that word "idiot". 


There is only one direction of the "CURVE"... its up.
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That is because as total extraction and production increases, so does total cost. 
(Hint:  the letters "TC" in the graphs stand for "Total Cost").

What?
Did you think that total cost would actually fall if production increased?
Did you think that the total cost curve would start to trend negative?


There isn't any opposing arc.
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Why do you think one is required?
And what do you think the TR arc is there for?

For extra credit: the two graphs describe two different revenue scenarios.
Can you give examples of goods/services that fit each scenario?
And do you understand why total cost does not trend negative, regardless of scenario?

Have a good think about it, post your answer, and I'll check back later to review.
 
redgreen5 said:
Right click. Properties.
it's from an economics course at Oswego State University in New York.

I'm not accustomed to needing to educate people how to find the source of an embedded image.
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Images can be uploaded or linked. I'm sorry you didn't know this... but then again.... I'm sure you often miss the forest because of the trees. ;)

That is because as total extraction and production increases, so does total cost. 
(Hint:  the letters "TC" in the graphs stand for "Total Cost").
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How does total cost for extraction and production increase with the corresponding increase in oil prices?

Whether it makes sense or not....I'm sure you have an answer.

Have a good think about it, post your answer, and I'll check back later to review.
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No answer to give. We are talking about oil. What you talking about?





 
I was thinking of buying some land in the country, learning to grow my own food and getting some horses.  I know that is extreme but I think hard times are around the corner.  Like end of the world hard times.
 
christundivided said:
I'm not accustomed to needing to educate people how to find the source of an embedded image.

Images can be uploaded or linked. I'm sorry you didn't know this...
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Of course I knew it. But had you known about right clicking the image, you wouldn't have needed to ask the question.
Now that you know the graph comes from an economics course at Oswego, do you feel better?  ::)


That is because as total extraction and production increases, so does total cost. 
(Hint:  the letters "TC" in the graphs stand for "Total Cost").

How does total cost for extraction and production increase with the corresponding increase in oil prices?
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They are not related, except very tangentially. 

Can you figure out why TC for extraction/production is not related to oil prices, or should I leave you some hints?  8)


Whether it makes sense or not....I'm sure you have an answer.
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The fact that you don't understand Econ 101 is the problem here.  Not my answers.  As they say: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.


Have a good think about it, post your answer, and I'll check back later to review.

No answer to give. We are talking about oil. What you talking about?
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I'm talking about the graphs above, and trying to see if you understand which graph applies to oil -- and why. 

I'm also talking about why Saudi Arabia does not -- as you claim -- simply raise prices as high as they can, and why that is the case.  The graph gives the answer.

I'm also talking about why raising prices does not always -- as you claim -- result in more money for Saudi Arabia, and why it works this way. The graph gives the answer to that as well. (My question to you above, about what would happen if price/bbl went to $50,000, also gives that answer -- but you skipped answering that question).

I'm also talking about your complaint that there wasn't any opposing arc displayed on the graph -- why do you think one is needed? And what do you think the TR curve is displayed for?

It's all Econ 101.  You earlier claimed that you didn't need any instruction in how economics works.  If so, then this all the above should be a piece of cake for you to figure out.  ::)
 
Miller said:
Top said:
$4.25 now.
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Just paid $8.05 and spent $131.92 to fill up my tank.
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I've known several people that lived in work in England for many years. Usually.... the wage they earn MORE than makes up for the increase cost of living there.

Not kicking you. I would do the same thing if I didn't hate the idea of living there. I'd be making 6 figures easy if I took a job there...BUT then again. I would have to pay those high tax rates there.

 
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