The Impeccability of Christ

[christundivided]

If you believe the Son could die on the cross, then you must also believe the same is true for the Father. Jesus himself declared that he was one with the Father (John 10:30)

Don't confuse your categories. Jesus' mortality was an attribute of his humanity, which the Father and the Holy Spirit do not share.  Impeccability is an attribute of divinity.

I agree but I wasn't confused. You can't separate the Divinity of Christ from the advent of Christ. You can't separate the advent of Christ from the Divinity of Christ. Yes, we can recognize the distinction. Yet, there is no "this or that" in the equation. We as human beings.... often think entirely too "one dimensional".

When the Scriptures declare that Christ became sin for us.... do you believe that only applies his incarnate body?

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin

Isa 53:11  He shall see of the travail of his soul,

 

[Ransom]

I agree but I wasn't confused.

I didn't say you were confused. I said your categories were confused. (And obviously, they still are.)

You can't separate the Divinity of Christ from the advent of Christ. You can't separate the advent of Christ from the Divinity of Christ.

Yes, in fact, you can. The Son never had to become a man and come to earth.

When the Scriptures declare that Christ became sin for us.... do you believe that only applies his incarnate body?

I don't believe it has any relevance to his impeccability. He bore the sins of his people, nonetheless, he himself knew no sin. Don't forget that other half of the verse.

 

[rsc2a]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

 

[christundivided]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

I don't particularly like the word "deprived" in this instance. I don't see the incarnation as depriving Christ of anything. I see His willing choice not to use the power that He had in himself. Such is consistent with the character of God throughout human existence.

 

[christundivided]

I don't believe it has any relevance to his impeccability. He bore the sins of his people, nonetheless, he himself knew no sin. Don't forget that other half of the verse.

Okay. I can't disagree. Maybe I should ask when do you think this took place? Just at Calvary or throughout His incarnation or in the incarnation itself? I'm in between the second and the last.

 

[rsc2a]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

I don't particularly like the word "deprived" in this instance. I don't see the incarnation as depriving Christ of anything. I see His willing choice not to use the power that He paid. Such is consistent with the character of God throughout human existence.

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. - statement made by an omniscience God-man

 

[christundivided]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

I don't particularly like the word "deprived" in this instance. I don't see the incarnation as depriving Christ of anything. I see His willing choice not to use the power that He paid. Such is consistent with the character of God throughout human existence.

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. - statement made by an omniscience God-man

Isn't that statement exclusive to Matthew? Humm....

Do you have anything else along those lines?

Joh 5:26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 

[Ransom]

Okay. I can't disagree. Maybe I should ask when do you think this took place? Just at Calvary or throughout His incarnation or in the incarnation itself? I'm in between the second and the last.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree" (1 Pet. 2:24). I'm unaware of Scripture claiming Jesus bore our sins at any other time.

 

[christundivided]

Okay. I can't disagree. Maybe I should ask when do you think this took place? Just at Calvary or throughout His incarnation or in the incarnation itself? I'm in between the second and the last.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree" (1 Pet. 2:24). I'm unaware of Scripture claiming Jesus bore our sins at any other time.

While Peter does state this.... I don't believe it is a statement that exclusively places the effects of our sin only while Christ was on the "tree"?

How about when He was "striped"? I'm certain you know the references.....

 

[Ransom]

While Peter does state this.... I don't believe it is a statement that exclusively places the effects of our sin only while Christ was on the "tree"?

How about when He was "striped"? I'm certain you know the references.....

Being "striped" took place on Good Friday, like the crucifixion, and it can be argued that it was part of the whole.

Really, how "generous" can we be in saying that certain parts of his life were part of his atoning work? Worst case scenario, I'd say, would begin with his suffering in Gethsemane and include his arrest, trial, scourging by the Romans, the walk to Golgotha, and his crucifixion, death, and burial.

Two days. What about the rest of his ministry when he wandered around Judea healing the six and teaching parables to the disciples? Was he atoning for sins then? How about the first 30 years of his life of which we are told next to nothing?

 

[rsc2a]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

I don't particularly like the word "deprived" in this instance. I don't see the incarnation as depriving Christ of anything. I see His willing choice not to use the power that He paid. Such is consistent with the character of God throughout human existence.

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. - statement made by an omniscience God-man

Isn't that statement exclusive to Matthew? Humm....

And?

Do you have anything else along those lines?

Joh 5:26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Yes. There are other passages where Jesus is clearly shown to be human by acting in a manner that appears contrary to His divine nature.

 

[Castor Muscular]

The Bible says Jesus was tempted just as we are, but did not sin.  What does that really mean?  I don't know.  I do not understand it from his perspective, and I'm content not to understand it.  I just take it that it's true. 

 

[freelance_christian]

I voted other.

Jesus is fully human. He could sin as much as Adam could sin.
Jesus is fully God. It is impossible for God to sin.

Until I can wrap my head around how one can be both fully man and fully God, I'll just have to acknowledge that this truth is still a mystery to us.

The ability to sin is not an exclusively human trait, e.g. the Satan. Adam was a man who did not have intrinsic holiness. Jesus was a man with intrinsic holiness because he was also God. Because of this difference, the man Adam had the ability to sin, and the man Jesus did not. There is absolutely no contradiction in Christ's perfect holiness and his humanity.

If the man Jesus didn't have the ability to sin, then the man Jesus wasn't fully human.

Can God the Father or the Holy Spirit sin?

I would say no.

If you believe that the Father cannot sin, then you must also believe the same is true for the Son. Jesus himself declared that he was one with the Father (John 10:30).

If you believe the Son could die on the cross, then you must also believe the same is true for the Father. Jesus himself declared that he was one with the Father (John 10:30)

I was unaware that the Father ever became a man.

I was unaware that the Son became the Father.

I said what I said to make you think about your argument. One liners don't always tell the entire story.

And yet the Son and the Father are ONE. Whatever one can claim about the nature and essence of the Father, one must also claim for the Son. Your response was a non sequitur.

 

[christundivided]

I would also say that the ability to sin is an attribute of humanity.

The "ability to sin" is not an attribute, it's the privation of an attribute, namely impeccability.

If Jesus cannot sin, then it is incorrect to claim he lacks something we have. It's the opposite: he has something we don't. He is more perfectly human, not less.

And Jesus was deprived of several attributes as part of the Incarnation. That didn't make Him any less God.

How it works? *shrug*

I don't particularly like the word "deprived" in this instance. I don't see the incarnation as depriving Christ of anything. I see His willing choice not to use the power that He paid. Such is consistent with the character of God throughout human existence.

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. - statement made by an omniscience God-man

Isn't that statement exclusive to Matthew? Humm....

And?

Do you have anything else along those lines?

Joh 5:26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Yes. There are other passages where Jesus is clearly shown to be human by acting in a manner that appears contrary to His divine nature.

By all means share those examples.

 

[rsc2a]

However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. - statement made by an omniscience God-man

Isn't that statement exclusive to Matthew? Humm....

And?

Do you have anything else along those lines?

Joh 5:26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Yes. There are other passages where Jesus is clearly shown to be human by acting in a manner that appears contrary to His divine nature.

By all means share those examples.

When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. - Matt 8:10

Jacob’s well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour.  - John 4:6

And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. - Matt 4:2

And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. - Mark 2:52

“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  - Mark 13:32 (No...it's not exclusive to Matthew.)

And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will." - Matt 26:39

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The Bible says Jesus was tempted just as we are, but did not sin.  What does that really mean?  I don't know.  I do not understand it from his perspective, and I'm content not to understand it.  I just take it that it's true.

My feeling exactly.
But if rsc2a has an opinion, there's an 80% chance he's wrong.....based on my experience....