The Difference Between True and False Prophecy

The Jews (Hebrews) believed that because they were the physical descendants of Abraham, God’s chosen race, they were secure in salvation much like the children of Christian parents who have been raised in church believe they are saved. Jesus tore down that argument.
Matt 3:9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

The problem with Israel was they had a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. They tried to establish their own righteousness by keeping the law of Moses (Rom 10:1-4).

The apostle Paul, who was a “Hebrew of the Hebrews” when it came to his ancestry (Phil 3:4-5) realized that his ancestry had nothing to do with salvation. And yet he loved his kinsmen according to the flesh so much so that he was willing to go to hell if that is what it would take for them to be saved. Paul realized that all the children of Abraham according to the flesh are not children of God, but only those who denounced their own righteousness and received the righteousness found by faith in Christ alone. Around 20% of Israel today are atheists.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.

Rom 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

Rom 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”

Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
 
Ekklesian said:
Correct. The children of the Promise.

And who was the Promised Seed?
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ is the promised seed of Abraham. I am a spiritual child of Abraham by faith. That doesn't make me a physical descendant though.
 
Ransom said:
And what benefit would it be if you were?
Click to expand...
Christians are blessed with spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3). If I were a Jew living in present day Israel it would make a huge difference. Even though they are in a state of unbelief, God has promised to protect them as a people. Tens of thousands of missiles have been launched against the tiny nation of Israel that should have been destroyed humanly speaking years ago but miraculous events have prevented their destruction. The largest ballistic missile attack in history was launched on October 1 with not a single Israeli being killed. I know we don’t agree with the Church and Israel being two separate entities but with the nuclear option of Iran on the cusp and the inevitable all out war coming in the region, we will see if the Bible is true. If Israel is destroyed I will concede you are right. In the meantime, we will have to agree to disagree.
 
I believe if Benjamin Netanyahu lives long enough his eyes will be opened as to the fact that Jesus is indeed the Messiah. I saw one video where he acknowledged that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi. Christians should pray for the salvation of the Jews, not make fun of them.

​

 
biscuit1953 said:
Christians are blessed with spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3). If I were a Jew living in present day Israel it would make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Correct. You would receive no blessings, because there are no longer any blessings outside of Christ.

biscuit1953 said:
In the meantime, we will have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

Which is what you always say when you are left without a substantial answer.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Christians are blessed with spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3). If I were a Jew living in present day Israel it would make a huge difference.
Click to expand...
You just made a distinction between Jews and Christians without thinking about it, and that is the desired effect of the Zionism of the Jews. You have to remember, that the Circumcision do not want to be identified with Jesus in any way. Many of the Hebrew Christians in Israel are spit upon and otherwise persecuted by many of the Orthodox Jews there.

Christians in Israel proper often experience family rejection, low social standing and limited hope of job advancement. Jewish anti-missionary groups, especially Yad L’Achim, sometimes protest outside churches, cursing Christians and vandalizing their buildings. The anti-missionary activities have at times included violence against Christians. ​
​

They're only tolerating Christianity, and/or Western forms of government as far as it serves their purposes in convincing the nations to fight their wars for them. But you dare not say a word against them, because...you know...Genesis 12:3.

John Hagee has gone as far as to say that Jesus was not Israel's Messiah, and it seems to me you're about to trip over the stumbling stone as well.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Jesus Christ is the promised seed of Abraham. I am a spiritual child of Abraham by faith. That doesn't make me a physical descendant though.
Click to expand...
Not only would it make you a true descendant, but it would make you an heir of the promises made to Abraham. All of them.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. ... And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Galatians 3:16, 29​
​
But your eyes are not on Christ. Your eyes are on the Circumcision, and on genealogies, and fables and wackadoodle extra-biblical prophecies.

Buddy, I hope you brought enough oil for your lamp.
 
Ekklesian said:
Not only would it make you a true descendant, but it would make you an heir of the promises made to Abraham. All of them.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. ... And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Galatians 3:16, 29​
​
But your eyes are not on Christ. Your eyes are on the Circumcision, and on genealogies, and fables and wackadoodle extra-biblical prophecies.

Buddy, I hope you brought enough oil for your lamp.
Click to expand...

Jesus: Matt_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Martin Luther Ekklesian - “the blind Jews are truly stupid fools…”
Jesus: Luke 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. Luke_11:45 One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.”
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus, they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security. They have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God’s wrath.

Jesus: Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?

Jesus: Matt_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God’s wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

Jesus: Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matt 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Matt 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Matt 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matt 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Matt 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Martin Luther Ekklesian - No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. For, as we have heard, God’s anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them! What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians. I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., ... then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., ... then eject them forever from the country …"

There is nothing anti-semitic with any of these things Martin Luther said according to Ekklesian. A good Christian shows grace and compassion to sinners other than the Jews of course. Growing up I heard the most atrocious things said about the Jews and am tired of the excuses people give to denigrate an entire group of people that need the gospel just as much as the vilest sinner.

2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2 Tim 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 
Last edited:
biscuit1953 said:
Jesus: Matt_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Martin Luther Ekklesian - “the blind Jews are truly stupid fools…”
Jesus: Luke 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. Luke_11:45 One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.”
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus, they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security. They have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God’s wrath.

Jesus: Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?

Jesus: Matt_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Martin Luther Ekklesian - Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God’s wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

Jesus: Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matt 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Matt 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Matt 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matt 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Matt 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Martin Luther Ekklesian - No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. For, as we have heard, God’s anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them! What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians. I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., ... then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., ... then eject them forever from the country …"

There is nothing anti-semitic with any of these things Martin Luther said according to Ekklesian. A good Christian shows grace and compassion to sinners other than the Jews of course. Growing up I heard the most atrocious things said about the Jews and am tired of the excuses people give to denigrate an entire group of people that need the gospel just as much as the vilest sinner.

2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2 Tim 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Click to expand...
A Jew farts.

biscuit1953: The voice of a god, and not a man!
 
biscuit1953 said:
There is nothing anti-semitic with any of these things Martin Luther said according to Ekklesian.
Click to expand...
They are certainly anti-The Circumcision. But not anti-Hebrew. In your Jewish sources, can you find some quotes from Luther about the believing Hebrews?

No?

Imagine that.

I guess you'll have to read Luther's works for yourself.
 
Ekklesian said:
A Jew farts.

biscuit1953: The voice of a god, and not a man!
Click to expand...
You are a disgusting individual who should go back to speculating about God sending babies to hell because they refuse to repent and believe the gospel. Check your heart.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus, they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.
Click to expand...
Was Luther telling the truth here?

Ekklesian said:
Christians in Israel proper often experience family rejection, low social standing and limited hope of job advancement. Jewish anti-missionary groups, especially Yad L’Achim, sometimes protest outside churches, cursing Christians and vandalizing their buildings. The anti-missionary activities have at times included violence against Christians. https://www.persecution.com/globalprayerguide/israel/
Click to expand...
Is the VOM telling the truth?
 
biscuit1953 said:
Matt 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Matt 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Matt 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matt 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Matt 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Martin Luther Ekklesian - No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. For, as we have heard, God’s anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them! What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians. I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., ... then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., ... then eject them forever from the country …"
Click to expand...
Here is a tacit admission that the Jews in Luther's day were profiting from the mistreatment and exploitation of their neighbors. But, misapplying Christ's instructions regarding personal and private offenses, and ignoring the biblical exortations to seek justice, judgement, and equity for the public, you say the response to that should be submission.

I think I said it right in #34.
 
Why, their Talmud and their rabbis record that it is no sin for a Jew to kill a Gentile, but it is only a sin for him to kill a brother Israelite. Nor is it a sin for a Jew to break his oath to a Gentile. Likewise, they say that it is rendering God a service to steal or rob from a Goy, as they in fact do through their usury. For since they believe that they are the noble blood and the circumcised saints and we the accursed Goyim, they cannot treat us too harshly or commit sin against us, for they are the lords of the world and we are their servants, yes, their cattle.​

Were their rabbis teaching this? Or was Luther lying?

A cursory internet search revealed the following:

When asked why a certain priest was not rendered unclean when standing in a gentile cemetery, one tradition answered, because gentiles are not human.​
​
As it is taught in a baraita: Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai says that the graves of gentiles do not render one impure, as it is stated: “And you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, are man” (Ezekiel 34:31), which teaches that you, i.e., the Jewish people, are called “man,” but gentiles are not called “man.” Since the Torah states with regard to ritual impurity imparted in a tent: “If a man dies in a tent” (Numbers 19:14), evidently impurity imparted by a tent does not apply to gentiles.​
​
​
And this little gem of a video.


So, if these were the kinds of Jews troubling Germany in the days of Luther, and unless Luther was just making things up it certainly seems they were, do you still think he was being too hard on them?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top