The "deterioration" of HAC

I found an article from 1973 where John R Rices defends the merits of the bus ministry and lists the largest IFB bus ministries at the time.
  • First Baptist Church of Hammond, IN (137 buses)
  • Landmark Baptist Temple in Cincinnati, OH (118 buses)
  • Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, VA (78 buses)
  • Gospel Light Baptist in Kernersville, NC (52 buses)
  • Beth Haven Baptist Church in Louisville, KY (50 buses)
  • Central Baptist in Pomona, CA (46 buses)
  • Forrest Hill in Decatur, GA (45 buses)
  • Emmanuel Baptist Church in Pontiac, MI (43 buses)
  • Highland Park Baptist in Chattanooga, TN (40 buses)
  • Westside Assembly of God in Davenport, IA (24 buses)
  • Fairhaven Baptist in Chesterton, IN (20 buses)
  • Providence Baptist Church in Riverview, FL (15 buses)
  • Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown, NC
  • Canton Baptist Temple in Canton, OH
  • Woodland Baptist Church in Winston-Salem, NC
These churches were led by such men as Dr. Jack Hyles, Dr. Tom Malone, Dr. John W. Rawlings, Dr. Lee Roberson, Dr. J.R. Faulkner, Dr. Raymond Hancock, Dr. Bobby Roberson, and Dr. Harold Henniger
 
sword said:
I found an article from 1973 where John R Rices defends the merits of the bus ministry and lists the largest IFB bus ministries at the time.
  • First Baptist Church of Hammond, IN (137 buses)
  • Landmark Baptist Temple in Cincinnati, OH (118 buses)
  • Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, VA (78 buses)
  • Gospel Light Baptist in Kernersville, NC (52 buses)
  • Beth Haven Baptist Church in Louisville, KY (50 buses)
  • Central Baptist in Pomona, CA (46 buses)
  • Forrest Hill in Decatur, GA (45 buses)
  • Emmanuel Baptist Church in Pontiac, MI (43 buses)
  • Highland Park Baptist in Chattanooga, TN (40 buses)
  • Westside Assembly of God in Davenport, IA (24 buses)
  • Fairhaven Baptist in Chesterton, IN (20 buses)
  • Providence Baptist Church in Riverview, FL (15 buses)
  • Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown, NC
  • Canton Baptist Temple in Canton, OH
  • Woodland Baptist Church in Winston-Salem, NC
These churches were led by such men as Dr. Jack Hyles, Dr. Tom Malone, Dr. John W. Rawlings, Dr. Lee Roberson, Dr. J.R. Faulkner, Dr. Raymond Hancock, Dr. Bobby Roberson, and Dr. Harold Henniger
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My impression is that when you see that only nine churches in the country had more than 25 buses, that’s not a lot. And it’s no wonder those were the “mega churches” of the day. It’s a numbers game.
 
  • TRUTH!
Reactions: Jo
Justice1976 said:
My impression is that when you see that only nine churches in the country had more than 25 buses, that’s not a lot. And it’s no wonder those were the “mega churches” of the day. It’s a numbers game.
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You didn't know that it's ALL about the numbers?
 
The majority of baptisms from the list of largest bus ministries from the 70's came from the bus ministry, too. Discipleship definitely wasn't a priority.

I remember when Bob Gray was having 10,000 annual baptisms in Longview (TX) and they never needed to enlarge their auditorium. You'd think they would need to rent an NBA arena to hold services if they were only to keep a portion of their converts after their baptism.
 
tobytyler said:
The majority of baptisms from the list of largest bus ministries from the 70's came from the bus ministry, too. Discipleship definitely wasn't a priority.

I remember when Bob Gray was having 10,000 annual baptisms in Longview (TX) and they never needed to enlarge their auditorium. You'd think they would need to rent an NBA arena to hold services if they were only to keep a portion of their converts after their baptism.
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I'm going to shoot some flaming arrows into my camp and say something of Greg Laurie's Harvest Crusades. 😱

Not that Greg Laurie doesn't practice discipleship: My pastor, Rick, used to be on Greg's staff as head of his church's discipleship team. I've seen how Rick does discipleship; I have even worked with him in our own church discipling new believers and it is an UPHILL battle.

But if lives are being redeemed when THOUSANDS come forth at an invitation as happens at these crusades, where is the impact on society?
Harvest Ministries publishes "New Believer's Bibles" and they are given out to all who respond to these invitations.

I guess, rather than gush about how many responded to the invitation or how many got baptized, maybe we need to examine the actual fruit that comes from these events.

Just saying...
 
sword said:
Have the academic standards at HAC always been low. The first hand accounts I have heard recently, from former students, about their classes have been disgraceful. The stories of teachers always arriving late, being unprepared, or just telling stories all hour are common. To spend a semester attending a class every week & having very little work assigned & to learn little or nothing is inexcusable.

Can I get some first hand experience in this matter. Are these isolated incidents or are they common through out HAC?
Has it always been this way and if not when did the downward slide began?
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My daughter is in her 4th year and my son in his 3rd year at HAC they haven’t said anything like that about the teachers or courses. My daughter did tell me there was a female dorm student last year who watched some creepy movies and acted like she was possessed or something and even spoke in a weird voice when some girls were reading verses out loud. The girl ended up going to the hospital for a day or so and was allowed to return to the dorms and was told she needed to stop watching what she had been watching. My daughter said shortly after the girl went back to watching the movies again.
 
Justice1976 said:
I’m deep in the southeast.
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I’m in NC and my experience is akin to yours.
However, while there are virtually no viable bus ministries around us, there are 3-4 growing IFB churches and, to my knowledge, they do have choirs and a more formal dress culture.
 
I would not send my child to hac . Do you get to visit the campus and sit in on chapels. When Pastor Wilkerson praised Pastor Trieber I'm not impressed he protected the wrong people . Read the thread concerning this ...
 
Angelface2011 said:
My daughter is in her 4th year and my son in his 3rd year at HAC they haven’t said anything like that about the teachers or courses. My daughter did tell me there was a female dorm student last year who watched some creepy movies and acted like she was possessed or something and even spoke in a weird voice when some girls were reading verses out loud. The girl ended up going to the hospital for a day or so and was allowed to return to the dorms and was told she needed to stop watching what she had been watching. My daughter said shortly after the girl went back to watching the movies again.
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I've been to college A LOT. Both at HAC and public universities.

Ask your kids this: Do you have to really dig in a course to hope you can get a "B" much less and "A"? If the honest answer is no, it's not tough academically.
 
abcaines said:
I'm going to shoot some flaming arrows into my camp and say something of Greg Laurie's Harvest Crusades. 😱

Not that Greg Laurie doesn't practice discipleship: My pastor, Rick, used to be on Greg's staff as head of his church's discipleship team. I've seen how Rick does discipleship; I have even worked with him in our own church discipling new believers and it is an UPHILL battle.

But if lives are being redeemed when THOUSANDS come forth at an invitation as happens at these crusades, where is the impact on society?
Harvest Ministries publishes "New Believer's Bibles" and they are given out to all who respond to these invitations.

I guess, rather than gush about how many responded to the invitation or how many got baptized, maybe we need to examine the actual fruit that comes from these events.

Just saying...
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This is the principal argument against "Finneyism" from which much of today's mass-evangelism tactics are modeled and yes, it does warrant criticism and church leaders ought to be concerned about this! I would hope that Greg Laurie would be among the first to ask such questions seeing that he has been leading all of these "Harvest Crusades" and will one day stand before God and give account for all of this.

I remember having such concerns as a Bus Captain in the IFB Church I was a member of in San Diego. I preached regularly in "Children's Church" and I knew how to get a "decision" out of a kid and realized that I needed to be careful about this and make sure that it was God who was the one bringing about one's conversion. I often cited John 15:16 (that your fruit should remain) and actually became critical of "Big Days" when everything was about the "Numbers" and "Decisions" made. What I wanted to see was consistency among those I was ministering to. If I had 50 kids on my bus route, I wanted them to be the same 50 kids who were faithful in their attendance and I wanted to see God at work in their lives.

Churches that boast large numbers of baptisms and decisions ought to question why their average attendance does not increase proportionately and even then, they ought to ask whether such "conversions" truly have any impact on their community (reduced crime, divorce rate, alcoholism, etc.). How many are truly converted and are impacting their world as they should and how many have just "joined a club" and are going through the motions on Sunday and Wednesday?
 
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