The "deterioration" of HAC

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RAIDER

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On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
 
Just guessing here but maybe the need for tuition paying students has caused an increase of toleration of activities the poster described.
 
RAIDER said:
On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
Click to expand...

Take this into consideration. Why the surprise? The above activities were being practiced behind closed doors (figuratively and literally) by STAFF in the 80's so why are we surprised when sin spreads further?
 
The die was cast, maybe caste too, in the 70s and 80s when DH was praised even though the most vile behavior was occurring with regularity.

Legacy families in the church knew and turned a blind eye until the Griffith Police chief caught him.

We never as a church repented of this gross immorality.

Still haven't.

Still paying the price.
 
RAIDER said:
On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
Click to expand...
I went to HAC in the 90's and experienced the same quality of people that Raider had experienced.  For the most part, I obeyed the rules, disobeyed a few (especially the 45mph bus rule...)  We were all like that, not excusing rule breaking, but that's the way it was.  There were some punks with bad attitudes, there were cocky, cliquish bus workers who flaunted their numbers as spirituality.  There were the men worshipers (people who quoted Bro. Hyles and ministry leaders more than Jesus).  But What I did not notice was blatant immorality and an in your face rule breaking.  I also did not see a hesitation for the staff to confront and correct the wrongs.  As far as I could see, the staff and faculty were genuine Christians who loved God, cared about us and were fair.  For the most part, the Christians that surrounded me had a desire to serve the Lord and I lived in the dorms for one year (prophets 1). I saw Christians praying in the hall ways, flooding the alters in chapel, reading and studying their Bibles,  winning souls to Christ, respecting the leadership and learning to deepen their walk with Jesus.  Most of what I have learned bad about the place I have learned here on this forum.  I am not ashamed to admit that my experience at HAC was 85% positive.  The 15% bad came from being in Roger Casteel's division and some of his minions that were cocky.  The other bad was the shallow teaching that pervaded many of the classes.
Call me naive, but that was my experience.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
RAIDER said:
On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
Click to expand...

Take this into consideration. Why the surprise? The above activities were being practiced behind closed doors (figuratively and literally) by STAFF in the 80's so why are we surprised when sin spreads further?
Click to expand...

On one side of the coin I follow you, but I will say that most of those staff members are long gone.  The students at HAC today probably know little about most of them. 
 
16KJV11 said:
I went to HAC in the 90's and experienced the same quality of people that Raider had experienced.  For the most part, I obeyed the rules, disobeyed a few (especially the 45mph bus rule...)  We were all like that, not excusing rule breaking, but that's the way it was.  There were some punks with bad attitudes, there were cocky, cliquish bus workers who flaunted their numbers as spirituality.  There were the men worshipers (people who quoted Bro. Hyles and ministry leaders more than Jesus).  But What I did not notice was blatant immorality and an in your face rule breaking.  I also did not see a hesitation for the staff to confront and correct the wrongs.  As far as I could see, the staff and faculty were genuine Christians who loved God, cared about us and were fair.  For the most part, the Christians that surrounded me had a desire to serve the Lord and I lived in the dorms for one year (prophets 1). I saw Christians praying in the hall ways, flooding the alters in chapel, reading and studying their Bibles,  winning souls to Christ, respecting the leadership and learning to deepen their walk with Jesus.  Most of what I have learned bad about the place I have learned here on this forum.  I am not ashamed to admit that my experience at HAC was 85% positive.  The 15% bad came from being in Roger Casteel's division and some of his minions that were cocky.  The other bad was the shallow teaching that pervaded many of the classes.
Call me naive, but that was my experience.
Click to expand...

I could have typed this word for word myself...
 
16KJV11 said:
RAIDER said:
On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
Click to expand...
I went to HAC in the 90's and experienced the same quality of people that Raider had experienced.  For the most part, I obeyed the rules, disobeyed a few (especially the 45mph bus rule...)  We were all like that, not excusing rule breaking, but that's the way it was.  There were some punks with bad attitudes, there were cocky, cliquish bus workers who flaunted their numbers as spirituality.  There were the men worshipers (people who quoted Bro. Hyles and ministry leaders more than Jesus).  But What I did not notice was blatant immorality and an in your face rule breaking.  I also did not see a hesitation for the staff to confront and correct the wrongs.  As far as I could see, the staff and faculty were genuine Christians who loved God, cared about us and were fair.  For the most part, the Christians that surrounded me had a desire to serve the Lord and I lived in the dorms for one year (prophets 1). I saw Christians praying in the hall ways, flooding the alters in chapel, reading and studying their Bibles,  winning souls to Christ, respecting the leadership and learning to deepen their walk with Jesus.  Most of what I have learned bad about the place I have learned here on this forum.  I am not ashamed to admit that my experience at HAC was 85% positive.  The 15% bad came from being in Roger Casteel's division and some of his minions that were cocky.  The other bad was the shallow teaching that pervaded many of the classes.
Call me naive, but that was my experience.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, up until the sentence about Casteel. I was in Division five, so totally disagree with your assessment of the people in Division five. Most of my friends and my husband were in Division 5-other than the basic simple stupid rules they were not rule breakers!!
I
 
kaba said:
16KJV11 said:
RAIDER said:
On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

As a former HAC student I find it hard to believe that things have deteriorated to this point.  Yes, I realize that I was a student in the early '80s and that things have changed.  I still find it hard to believe that they have been lowered to this level.

When I was at HAC the wide majority of the students were there because they wanted to be there.  Most had a desire to serve God and learn the work of the ministry.  No, we were not perfect.  We did not obey all the rules, but for the most part we knew that getting caught had severe consequences.  We sometimes took chances.

Rock music was not being blasted through the dorms.  A student here-or-there may have slipped away and watched a movie, but many times they ended up getting caught.  A student may have slipped away with someone from the opposite sex.  Again, several were caught.  Let me say again, if you got caught there were severe consequences.  During my 4 years I had a few roommates that paid the price.

Either one of two things have happened:
1) The poster is a stinkin' Hacker and is exaggerating.
2) HAC has deteriorated to a point that is hard for some of us "old timers" to imagine.
Click to expand...
I went to HAC in the 90's and experienced the same quality of people that Raider had experienced.  For the most part, I obeyed the rules, disobeyed a few (especially the 45mph bus rule...)  We were all like that, not excusing rule breaking, but that's the way it was.  There were some punks with bad attitudes, there were cocky, cliquish bus workers who flaunted their numbers as spirituality.  There were the men worshipers (people who quoted Bro. Hyles and ministry leaders more than Jesus).  But What I did not notice was blatant immorality and an in your face rule breaking.  I also did not see a hesitation for the staff to confront and correct the wrongs.  As far as I could see, the staff and faculty were genuine Christians who loved God, cared about us and were fair.  For the most part, the Christians that surrounded me had a desire to serve the Lord and I lived in the dorms for one year (prophets 1). I saw Christians praying in the hall ways, flooding the alters in chapel, reading and studying their Bibles,  winning souls to Christ, respecting the leadership and learning to deepen their walk with Jesus.  Most of what I have learned bad about the place I have learned here on this forum.  I am not ashamed to admit that my experience at HAC was 85% positive.  The 15% bad came from being in Roger Casteel's division and some of his minions that were cocky.  The other bad was the shallow teaching that pervaded many of the classes.
Call me naive, but that was my experience.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, up until the sentence about Casteel. I was in Division five, so totally disagree with your assessment of the people in Division five. Most of my friends and my husband were in Division 5-other than the basic simple stupid rules they were not rule breakers!!
I
Click to expand...
I didn't say the workers in 5 were rule breakers, but I was a bus captain in division 12 and had to spend a lot of time around Roger Casteel and his minions (minions from 12,5,2).  Many (not all) of them were cocky, completely engrossed in numbers and trying to please the division leader.  My wife was division 5, so she certainly wasn't a rule breaker.  She did all right if you ask me.... 8) :p ;D
 
Sorry, knee jerk reaction.
 
How can the claims shock you?  Sounds no different at all.

Much of HAC was filled with good people.  There were many people there who honestly wanted to train the next generation of Christian leaders and many who wanted to be Christian leaders.  There were many people there who were HACkers and proud to be such.  There were also punks.  The leaders turned a blind eye to certain people's indiscretions.  In crowd got away with their crimes and the punks frequently got away with theirs.  The place was a mess.  Sexual sin was rampant.  Some was caught and punished, most was not.  We didn't sext, because there was not texting, but those payphones got an awful lot of drool on them while pagers displayed hidden codes which were not polite.  Lots of people went to movies and had nothing against them, even though the admin did.  With Netflix and the internet in every pocket - what do you expect?
 
Have the academic standards at HAC always been low. The first hand accounts I have heard recently, from former students, about their classes have been disgraceful.  The stories of teachers always arriving late, being unprepared, or just telling stories all hour are common. To spend a semester attending a class every week & having very little work assigned & to learn little or nothing is inexcusable.

Can I get some first hand experience in this matter. Are these isolated incidents or are they common through out HAC?
Has it always been this way and if not when did the downward slide began?
 
sword said:
Have the academic standards at HAC always been low. The first hand accounts I have heard recently, from former students, about their classes have been disgraceful.  The stories of teachers always arriving late, being unprepared, or just telling stories all hour are common. To spend a semester attending a class every week & having very little work assigned & to learn little or nothing is inexcusable.

Can I get some first hand experience in this matter. Are these isolated incidents or are they common through out HAC?
Has it always been this way and if not when did the downward slide began?
Click to expand...

I can not speak for the last 30 years, but in the 70s I took a few classes I thought would be helpful and at that time it was readily apparent that the academic level was much lower than two other colleges I had attended in the 60s.

The how to do it methods were what attracted students not the high level of the academics. I don't know what attracts students now, maybe their pastors.

I don't believe they had important subjects like hermeneutics and apologetics.

They are very weak on the why we believe what we believe and the defense of the faith.

Comparative religions was spoken against. So when you were practicing something almost Catholic you would not recognize it.

They would have had a heart attack if you started talking about Five Articles of Remonstrances or Church history that was not heavily revised, such as the booklet of sermons titled trail of blood.

Things such as Baptist (immersionists) distinctives where not explained in any great detail. The why of the distinctives was definitely not taught. I do not think any of the teachers had any idea where they originated.

Lack of reasonable theological training leaves one dangerously susceptible to any interesting wind of doctrine. KJVO got its start in FBCH because people were so poorly educated in religion.

They didn't know KJVO was just a modified version of what the Catholics taught in the 1500s.

Thus the saying a mile wide and an inch deep.





 
This MIGHT explain How HAC is still able to attract a few hundred students. On the Jericho Plan thread, it appears that HAC attracted a lot of juvenile delinquents with a combination of free tuition and low academics. Over the years, people have posted about how they went shopping during bus visitation, faked bus attendance numbers, lied on activity reports, etc.

HAC has always brought in juvenile delinquents to try to straighten them out. But I wonder if they have a reputation as a good place for a church to send their troubled teens in hopes of being straightened out?

Raider posted that when he was there three decades ago, there was very little of this, and the same applies to when I was there four decades ago. But as attendance and tuition drop, HAC might be deliberately catering to ungodly students.
 
sword said:
Have the academic standards at HAC always been low. The first hand accounts I have heard recently, from former students, about their classes have been disgraceful.  The stories of teachers always arriving late, being unprepared, or just telling stories all hour are common. To spend a semester attending a class every week & having very little work assigned & to learn little or nothing is inexcusable.

Can I get some first hand experience in this matter. Are these isolated incidents or are they common through out HAC?
Has it always been this way and if not when did the downward slide began?
Click to expand...

When I first arrived at hackadoodle we were wondering about teachers, elective classes, etc. and asked a few people. Many people gushed over Marlene Evans as being the greatest thing since peanut butter. Her classes were embarrassing to say the least. She was ALWAYS late. Five minutes after class started Mrs. Moffitt would have some student go to her office to get her. (this was not while she was battling cancer by-the-way). They were the most foolish waste of time for a male college student that you could come up with but she taught a few required courses.

There were several others who had no business teaching college courses. They were not teachers or academically gifted but the had 'large' ministries or they hollered loudly in church and got noticed by the Jack H.
 
Balaam, there are two points with your post about Marlene Evans:

1) Everything you're saying is true
2) She was still one of the best teachers there

I was surprised to learn from Marlene that "If they haven't learned, you haven't taught!" which she made us chant over and over again.

She also taught us that in preparing our lessons, we had to work at making them interesting. This cut down on class discipline problems.

Unfortunately, I learned nothing else from her, but she still taught me more than most of my other teachers.
 
Wow Vince, you didn't learn much then if Mrs. Evans was the teacher that taught you the most!! Her classes were not challenging. Her classes were a joke. Just memorize her cute little statements and you would get an A. Evans came late to class, because Moffitt would do all the attendance and announcements first, then Marlene would come to teach.

From a rating of 1 to walking, HAC was not hard. I did enjoy Dr. Rasmussen's classes. I was not a Dr. Cowling fan, although I guess you could say he was one teacher that actually taught. In Miss. Hobbs class I learned how to say the word Who and whose! I think if I did not have to work 60 hours a week for work scholarship, and do bus ministry Sat and Sun I might have actually had time to study.
 
Kaba writes "Wow Vince, you didn't learn much then if Mrs. Evans was the teacher that taught you the most!! "

Uh, actually, I learned the most from Joe Combs. And from Mrs. Evans, I only learned two things, which did make her one of my better teachers.

But when I was there. Marlene was always punctual.
 
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